Newark Air Museum

Newark Air Museum

Postby wallace on Wed 04 Oct 2017, 7:09 am

I stopped off at the Newark Air Museum on my way home after the Brunty night-shoot, the first visit for a couple of years and things have changed...
Some aircraft have been repainted and look great
ImageXN964 Buccaneer , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
A Yellow Sun Hydrogen bomb, all be it an inert one. Now I can appreciate why the Vulcan stood so high off the ground.
ImageYellow Sun H-Bomb , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
The Shack was opened up to the public, although some things are more interesting that others.
ImageWR977 Shackleton , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
Lots of visitors around, I gave up with the inside exhibits. Far too much clutter around the aircraft. Obtrusive sign boards getting the the way.
ImageG-APRT Taylor Monoplane , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
Work is progressing really well with the Monospar, a pity there was no one around to talk to and maybe get some better angles for the photos. Beautiful work, well done guys.
ImageVH-UTH Monospar , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
You know that you are old when you see aircraft in museums that you first seen in service.
ImageG-ANXB Heron , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
A bit of Russian colour on a drab day
Image71 MiG-27 , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
More clutter around aircraft, why leave the access stairs in place when they are not being used?
Image37918 Viggen , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
A new exhibit, a Hunter from Bruntingthorpe
ImageXX467 Hunter , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
The beautifully painted T-33
Image51-9036 T-33 , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
A big Binbrook Lightning, complete with a pair of Redtops.
ImageXS417 Lightning , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr
My soft spot for long nose Meteors is showing
ImageWS739 Meteor , Newark by Wallace Shackleton, on Flickr

A nice museum although it has its quirks, apart from the clutter around the aircraft, they were very keen on getting Gift Aid rebates, although the woman that took my money said I "must" fill the form in if I was a UK tax payer. It's not a must at all but I know the money will go to a good cause. The cafe was going to be my lunch stop, there was a money off ticket when I paid but it was like a boiler room inside, too hot for comfort, so I turned tail and left.
Lots of new space for future exhibits, I will look forward to returning and seeing the progress in a year or so, more power to your elbows.
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wallace

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Wed 04 Oct 2017, 8:58 am

Some nice photos from around the museum site and if I may I’d like to add a little context to some of your comments / observations.

The museum is fortunate to have an active restoration and repainting programme, which is part of a constant battle to keep things looking good and protecting them for future generations. This is also a factor in trying to get as many aircraft undercover as possible in the limited hangar space. A list of the ongoing projects can be found in here.

Signage is important to lots of members of the general public, who are not as knowledgeable as the aviation enthusiasts. This is one of the reasons why at previous NAM photo events they have tried to remove as much ‘clutter’ for the specialist photographers. Still unable to confirm any further such event albeit it something that is being actively considered.

Access steps by some aircraft like the Viggen allow people to view the exhibits / cockpits as and when volunteers are available to supervise them. It is a challenge to move these on a daily basis into a storage area in such restricted conditions. Details of the open cockpit offer can be found here.

You’re quite right that Gift Aid is not a must. Indeed some visitors are not eligible to take up Gifted Aided Admission. However those that can, do need to complete the paperwork so that the museum can comply with the audit trail required by HMRC; sadly the museum does not have the space to have rows of PCs where people can complete the forms online, or a till based system that can process the data.

The Gift Aid system does work and last year it generated in excess of £27k of additional income for the museum, which will provided a significant portion of the funds need to purchase the new café & toilets that are currently awaiting planning permission, as described in here. I was on site yesterday morning holding meetings in relation to this work and will be there again this Friday morning for similar meetings.

Fulfilling the need for a new café and toilets has been quite a long process, but it is coming towards a conclusion. With the situation that you describe I’m surprised that the temporary marquee was not open to allow you to eat any food in quieter and more temperate conditions. By the way the Gift Aid discount tickets for use in the café are not time dated; so if you hang onto them and you ever visit again they would still be valid.

As for new exhibits, the space may not be all that it seems and I’m not sure how many more the museum might be able to cope with!
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby jag636 on Wed 04 Oct 2017, 8:38 pm

Glad you liked our firestreak missles we couldn't find any red tops they are very hard to find these days :sad:
jag636

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby AndyXH558 on Thu 05 Oct 2017, 5:30 pm

My god Wallace you don't half moan.. you try running a museum with limited space. :mad:
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AndyXH558

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby wallace on Thu 05 Oct 2017, 10:13 pm

I went to the museum to see the aircraft and not the clutter, Newark has some great, unique aircraft and has done great things in their preservation but when you can't see the aircraft properly then that's the problem.

Take the Flea for example there are five items of clutter surrounding it, including a mid level partition. The Anson beside it, a model of a Vulcan. How relevant is that to the Anson?
It's clutter, when it has no relevance to the exhibit.
The Sea Harrier. What purpose does a dummy dressed in firefighting gear serve. Nothing. Clutter
Two paintings by the Sea Harrier, showing that it did operate from carriers, Duh. Clutter.
Javelin, what relevance is a futuristic model of an aircraft. Nothing. Clutter.
Viggen, a model of a Tornado. How relevant is that to the Viggen? None. Clutter.

Take your rose tinted, plane-spotter, flying goggles off and see the museum from Joe Public's point of view. They come to see the aircraft not the clutter surrounding them.

Another thing, as you exit the ticket hall, the first exhibition hall is a shed stuffed full of interesting junk. It has a lot of really interesting stuff but there is far too much for anyone to assimilate and the place has an unpleasant smell. I though that when I went in and I heard the same from a visitor who entered as I was leaving. These guys are the ones that pay the bills and entering a building that smell like something has died inside is not a favourable first impression.
Prove me wrong, tell me that the shed doesn't have an unpleasant smell and it's not an aircraft smell either.

While I am at it, the car park is covered in pea shingle. Not such a great idea with respect for anyone with a disability. Try pushing someone with a wheel chair over that lot. It won't be much fun for someone walking with the aid of a walking stick either. The plus was a notice for motorbikes warning of the surface, that was good.

This is criticism, I paid my money just like everyone else and that gives me every right to voice an opinion. I saw the museum from a visitor's perspective, you know the guys whose money helps pay the bills.

Moaning implies that my comments will not be taken note off. Sadly there's nothing anyone can do to change someone's mind with an intransigent attitude.
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wallace

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Thu 05 Oct 2017, 10:41 pm

I am sorry that you seem not to have had a good visit wallace.

As the person who responds to any complaints and circulates the positive feedback I am proud to say that those who enjoy their visits to Newark far out-weigh any negative feedback. That said everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect your right to express that opinion.

I do not feel that it is appropriate trying to debate individual aspects of interpretation and display, as they are very subjective topics. However I will address some of the specific issues.

I am not aware of any odour issues in the Small Object Display Hall, but when I visit tomorrow morning I will go and check the building myself – perhaps it was an issue of the weather conditions during your visit.

The pea gravel in the car parking area was cost-effective solution to some pot-hole issues on a leased part of our site. The motorbike sign was put up 18 months ago when the surface was laid – we have not encountered any issues with disabled access, but there has been a couple of issues with narrow wheeled pushchairs; hence why the family parking spaces were introduced close to the entrance.

Once again, sorry that you did not seem to have enjoyed your entire visit!

One quick question, would you like me to remove your name from the email list for any future Night Shoot events that the museum might host?
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 1:10 pm

wallace wrote:........Another thing, as you exit the ticket hall, the first exhibition hall is a shed stuffed full of interesting junk. It has a lot of really interesting stuff but there is far too much for anyone to assimilate and the place has an unpleasant smell. I though that when I went in and I heard the same from a visitor who entered as I was leaving. These guys are the ones that pay the bills and entering a building that smell like something has died inside is not a favourable first impression.
Prove me wrong, tell me that the shed doesn't have an unpleasant smell and it's not an aircraft smell either.

After a successful meeting this morning with the Internal Drainage Board in relation to the new café & toilet project I went into the Small Object Display Hall as I indicated that I would in my previous post.

This morning there was no unpleasant smell like you described wallace. The atmosphere/smell was nothing more than that of an 80 year old wooden framed building with aviation objects displayed in it. Having also checked with everyone at the museum I can confirm that we have had no complaints or comments about smells or odours in any museum building.

The only comment in recent weeks has been to do with the occasional pig muck odour from the neighbouring farm, but only then when the wind is in the wrong direction. Sadly there's nothing we can do about the habits of the local farm animals.

While driving back to Nottingham I pondered the situation further. One of the best commentators about smells etc. are the school children that come on education visits. They regularly comment about the 'nasty' smells inside the Wessex and Varsity. However this year I have taken around 250 school children, from 8 different schools on escorted tours round the Small Object Display Hall and not once has a comment been made about any smell or odour.

All that said, I'm sorry that you did not enjoy your visit!
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby AndyXH558 on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 2:36 pm

Wallace may I ask are you ever happy. you moaned about Elvington and now you moan about Newark. I for one really enjoy my visits to NAM, Have some great times there over the years and toasties to die for. Also i have NEVER smelled anything like you described. although Daves aftershave is a little dodgy ( sorry dave)


Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby wallace on Thu 05 Oct 2017, 10:13 pm
I went to the museum to see the aircraft and not the clutter, Newark has some great, unique aircraft and has done great things in their preservation but when you can't see the aircraft properly then that's the problem.

Take the Flea for example there are five items of clutter surrounding it, including a mid level partition. The Anson beside it, a model of a Vulcan. How relevant is that to the Anson?
It's clutter, when it has no relevance to the exhibit.
The Sea Harrier. What purpose does a dummy dressed in firefighting gear serve. Nothing. Clutter
Two paintings by the Sea Harrier, showing that it did operate from carriers, Duh. Clutter.
Javelin, what relevance is a futuristic model of an aircraft. Nothing. Clutter.
Viggen, a model of a Tornado. How relevant is that to the Viggen? None. Clutter


Maybe i could answer your moans.

1. vulcan beside the anson... now let me see.. oh yes BOTH MADE BY AVRO PERHAPS? or it was donated and was a radio controlled model.
2, Fireman beside the Sea Harrier. er well that is the outfit the firemen on the carriers would have to wear... so its RELEVANT!!!!
3, Artwork on the wall of the Sea Harrier.. er well i quite like them as they are very good paintings.
4, Futuristic model... was made by BAE as a demonstration model and has historic significance.
5, Model of the tornado. it was a radar procedures model used by the RAF..

So i do not see clutter i see history.....
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AndyXH558

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby jag636 on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 5:08 pm

Mr wallace you have not only upset me but many others across the museum world, I say this as a member and also a volunteer and trustee. I have worked in this museum for 30 years and have listened to many moans over the years, I have also acted on some of them and yes you have right to your view, but our staple diet of people who come to visit and part with hard earned cash are thoe with little or no idea of what an airframe is. Infact percentage wise anoraks only make up 5% of our footfall, we are always minful of how a viewer perceives what they look wt but I have sat and watched people go in to all areas and if there is nothing more than just a plane then they are straight out.
We are also an educational museum and many of the so called items of clutter fall into that area of use to tell the story that is sometimes taught. At the top I said other museum members all through the hobby, yes hobby we al give our time freely so that joe public can learn and I visit others often to just keep in touch and build up anetwork so to speak. Sadly when such observations such as yours come to light it makes me more ddetermined to silence it by being proactive, but space is at price and knowing that people like to see more than just an aircraft then the space in front or to the side gets used. I have seen other museums using the same space and even Hendon and Yeovilton and Duxford fall into this field of thought. I'm I'm sorry if you feel a grieved by what you have seen but we try to cater for the majority and by en large we get more positive feedback than negative, and finally do you volunteer if so maybe you may understand why this has become a hot topic.
jag636

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby Big Eric on Fri 06 Oct 2017, 5:47 pm

There's nothing wrong with the museum and I've been there many times and have enjoyed every visit.

Wallace, get real - try photographing the aircraft in the Cosford museum with those huge awful "Morrison's" style signs in the background everywhere !
Big Eric

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby flashman8 on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 7:07 am

NAM is one of the best air museums I have had the fortune to visit, in fact we go a few times a year.......... :biggrin:

I don't see what problem Wallace has a with this one...... :shock:
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Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby Pen Pusher on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 9:35 am

CLUTTER - (a lot of objects in) a state of being untidy

If you want to see real clutter around aeroplanes you should try the RAF Museum @ Hendon.

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Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby jag636 on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 1:49 pm

But all of this shows that museums are fluid and in a constant state of change, in other words we all can be forgiven for making it look untidy but we all stride to make the best of the changes for the public.
It was hendon that I first went to as a visitor when it first opened in the early days, and for me is still a national bench mark who I have a great admiration for and have dealt with on a few occasions on exhibits like the tristar sim which they donated to newark last year. They are my guide and so are all the other fine museums across the UK in not just aviation but every thing from costume to pens to vehicle's and so on, all are to be applauded for thier vision in saving everything for all to enjoy :clap: :clap: :clap:
jag636

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby tuska2 on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 4:08 pm

Newark is a great museum, I always enjoy my visits, but I do have to agree with Wallace. Clutter. This and many other museums seem to feel all available space must be filled. I do appreciate that space is at a premium, so why not maximize it, give the aircraft - the prime exhibits after all, to enthusiasts, casual visitors and the all important volunteers - space! Newarks Draken and Javelin,just two of the fantastic airframes presented like they are in Grandads Shed! Give them room to breathe!
Sorry Newark, and don't get too much inspiration from the modern Hendon, They've gone to the Dark side...
tuska2

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 4:59 pm

Hello tuska2, thank you for your input and I respect your opinion

I stand by my previous posts this thread and I will refrain from getting involved with subjective debates over ‘clutter’.

I will however widen the debate and table a couple of personal experiences. Back in the early 1990s I negotiated the Oxford and Harvard coming on loan to Newark from the RAFM Store at Cardington. This won the museum the Twite Trophy from FlyPast magazine and lots of plaudits for getting these two aircraft on display.

By 1993 I had also negotiated the Draken loan for Newark and this coupled with the impending loan of the Autocrat G-AGOH from Leicester meant that the RAFM loan was terminated a year early. At the time I was castigated for being part of group of trustees that let two ‘rare’ aircraft go back into store with the RAFM.

Now the Draken is viewed as a great example of a NATO type that looks good because it has been displayed inside since 1994 and looked after out of the elements. The moral being you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't! :dunno:

The museum tried a spell of taking one of its other Saabs outside back in 2013 to ‘give it some air’ and give people better photographic access; the deterioration while outside was quite considerable and it is unlikely that the exercise will be considered again.

Give us £10 million and we could buy more land, put up more buildings and put everything inside.

One final ‘clutter-alert’ – please don’t visit this weekend’s Aeroboot / Aerojumble at the museum, because that’s when you’ll see how cluttered a Hangar can really be! :surrender:

That said, this is also why we reduce the admission fee to a flat £4.50 for the day, because you cannot see the aircraft in Hangar 2 with relatively unobstructed views.
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby tuska2 on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 5:30 pm

NAM Updater, rest assured if I get a winning Euro Millions ticket I would very gladly buy your museum that extra land and Hangars! Its obvious the hard work and passion that has been poured into NAM. I will of course continue to visit and probably on the Aeroboot day too, but more as a collector than a critic! But I do
feel the "clutter" issue is a real one, not just the mumblings of some grumpy old Gits, though I do have that tee shirt it's true... anyone of a certain age in the current world is likely to qualify!!
tuska2

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 5:53 pm

Thank you tuska2, we might hold you to your offer! :up:

If you make it to the Aeroboot I'll stand you a coffee - I'll be in hi-viz doing the gate first thing and looking frazzled later (it does have NAM Updater on the i.d. badge as well). :cuppa:
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby jag636 on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 5:53 pm

Does that mean you qualify for grumpy granddad status? :lol:
jag636

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 5:57 pm

I guess that it must do! :win:
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby jag636 on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 7:56 pm

I'm so so sorry theres been something I have forgotten to say in all this debate which I shall now correct, and that is even though we've debated the pictures they are still well taken so thank you wallace keep clicking. And while I'm on have you posted any of Dumfries and Galloway as thats one on my to see bucket list :smile:
jag636

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby rob68 on Tue 10 Oct 2017, 9:46 pm

Is the Draken still on loan, could it be taken from you?
rob68

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Tue 10 Oct 2017, 10:10 pm

I dealt with the acquisition of all three Saabs, which are 'technically' on loan - if they had been gifted to the museum they would have been liable to taxation. This was more relevant for the Safir and Draken as their arrival came before Sweden became a member of the EU, so the aircraft were manufactured outside the EU; in 1994 the import documentation for the Darken was effected on a carnet. I took it and the handling fee to the Chamber of Commerce office in Nottingham.

The Viggen arrived after Sweden joined the EU and was made via a simple End User Certificate declaration - "Long term cultural loan" was the phrase that was on the declaration certificate.

So yes they could be taken from the museum.

The F100, T33 and Mystere are also on loan, these are from the USAFM and the paperwork for these airframes is more formalised with annual reports being requested for the airframes. Newark pioneered the work to resolve the import criteria for such loans back in the 1970s. They were being gifted to Newark and Duxford, then Customs became involved and the resulting dialogue included questions in both Houses of Parliament. Their delivery was originally planned for RAF Cranwell, but the compromise site was RAF Sculthorpe.
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby Orion on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 12:49 pm

I popped inon Saturday, arrived at about 1545. The lady on the desk told me that the museum closed at 17.00 but I was free to go where I wanted until then. Ok T&Cs established, went to the loo and then mooched about. At about 1615 I was in the north shed taking photos as you do and a bloke very abruptly told me to leave because he wanted to lock up. He was quite extraordinarily aggressive and rude. I told him the the lady on the desk had told me that I was ok until 5 whereupon he backed off and disappeared.
I carried on with my perambulation, bought a book in the shop (although it was the wrong one, I already have it I found when I got home) and cleared the site just before 5.
As ever the NAM was a great pleasure, but I do think that it should have care about the social skills of those volunteers who are customer facing. That bloke may cost it many returning visitors.
Regards
David Mylchreest
Orion

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby NAM Updater on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 1:11 pm

Very sorry to hear about that negative experience Orion and I will look into that situation with our volunteers.

For a lot of the summer I have been doing the lock-up rota on a Saturday, but I was not there last weekend. I normally start at the furthest location (Hangar 2 on the Southfield Site) at around 1630 hours and work my way back across via the other buildings to the shop. Due to our insurance obligations we have to check every fire door etc. is secure and sign a log to confirm that everything has been checked. The full lock-up routine normally takes me until 1650 hours, depending who I meet en route and chat too; and politely advise that we are closing at 1700 hours.

Once again sorry about your visit experience.
Howard Heeley - Newark Air Museum Trustee
In 2018 we're hosting 8 special events
http://newarkairmuseum.org
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NAM Updater

Re: Newark Air Museum

Postby jag636 on Tue 24 Oct 2017, 9:19 pm

I echo the the apology above and as such I as a trustee along with howard am more than happy for you to have a return visit at my expense. You are important to us as is the gentleman who started this thread and am happyto extend the offer to him. And if you both come together I will give you both my own personal time on your visit
jag636

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