2015 Airshow Dates Announced
- HuwJHopkins
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
What an absolutely absurd post, Andy!
Flippin' eck, so many 'enthusiasts' are loosing the plot lately. I don't get the whole vendetta against Duxford that seems to be in fashion at the moment.
Duxford has had the same format for decades, I don't see why it's an issue all of a sudden! Especially the warbird operators suffering sentiment!
As for the shows already being billed as 'poor', have you got a crystal ball or something that you're able to see into the future and the yet un-published participation lists!? If so, I suggest you tell someone about it, there could be big bucks to be made, you could even be the next Paul the Octopus!
Flippin' eck, so many 'enthusiasts' are loosing the plot lately. I don't get the whole vendetta against Duxford that seems to be in fashion at the moment.
Duxford has had the same format for decades, I don't see why it's an issue all of a sudden! Especially the warbird operators suffering sentiment!
As for the shows already being billed as 'poor', have you got a crystal ball or something that you're able to see into the future and the yet un-published participation lists!? If so, I suggest you tell someone about it, there could be big bucks to be made, you could even be the next Paul the Octopus!
Deputy Editor - The Vintage Aviation Echo
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
£30 for a 3 hour flying display is very expensive! Just a few ££ more and you get 8 hours at RIAT!
It makes Duxford one of the dearest places to go to for an airshow.
I'm also slightly nervous for Shuttleworth and the cost of their shows now as well
Be interesting to see how busy the fields will be next year
It makes Duxford one of the dearest places to go to for an airshow.
I'm also slightly nervous for Shuttleworth and the cost of their shows now as well
Be interesting to see how busy the fields will be next year
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- Pen Pusher
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
HuwJHopkins wrote:Flippin' eck, so many 'enthusiasts' are loosing the plot lately.
I'm glad I'm not an enthusiast. If I'd adopted the attitudes of the 'enthusiasts' who post on here I'd have changed my hobby a long time ago.
I also like the way 'enthusiasts' seem to know what Joe Public want when actually it's what they want.
Brian
- jimbob1194
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Pen Pusher wrote:HuwJHopkins wrote:Flippin' eck, so many 'enthusiasts' are loosing the plot lately.
I'm glad I'm not an enthusiast. If I'd adopted the attitudes of the 'enthusiasts' who post on here I'd have changed my hobby a long time ago.
I also like the way 'enthusiasts' seem to know what Joe Public want when actually it's what they want.
Brian
That last line sums it up.
The Mustang won't do what a Spitfire does, but it does it over Berlin.
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
HuwJHopkins wrote:What an absolutely absurd post, Andy!
As for the shows already being billed as 'poor', have you got a crystal ball or something that you're able to see into the future and the yet un-published participation lists!? If so, I suggest you tell someone about it, there could be big bucks to be made, you could even be the next Paul the Octopus!
I don't read it as him saying the aircraft content is poor just the selection of dates or number of shows is.
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
The million dollar question is...
Do people (either "enthusiasts" or "general public") want a 3 hour flying displays which full of quality items, or a 5/6 hour display with more 'filler' items?
Do people (either "enthusiasts" or "general public") want a 3 hour flying displays which full of quality items, or a 5/6 hour display with more 'filler' items?
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
PeterR wrote:The million dollar question is...
Do people (either "enthusiasts" or "general public") want a 3 hour flying displays which full of quality items, or a 5/6 hour display with more 'filler' items?
But what some people might think are filler items could be someone else s quality
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
jimbob1194 wrote:How do you see warbird operators getting damaged from DX's events?
Take your example Sally B, she will be at all three of those shows and from what I hear she already has quite a few bookings for next year and the trip to Payerne apparently was a big boost financially.
There are less UK shows (especially major shows) in 2015 than there ever has been, which means there is going to be far more competition out there for bookable display slots. Yes, this could lower the price of acts for organisers due to competition however the cost of operating types such as warbirds is only ever going up. At some stage for many operators the books just won't balance, the worst case result could be that we lose a few warbirds from the UK scene altogether.
Sally B (and others like it) for example benefit massively from being present on the ground at a show and not just flying at it. This year that exposure is being reduced, especially at Duxford.
HuwJHopkins wrote:What an absolutely absurd post, Andy!
Not really, it's opinion based in the reality that costs are going up for everyone and things need to change to reflect this, value for money is the way forward.
HuwJHopkins wrote:As for the shows already being billed as 'poor', have you got a crystal ball or something that you're able to see into the future and the yet un-published participation lists!? If so, I suggest you tell someone about it, there could be big bucks to be made, you could even be the next Paul the Octopus!
I'll take that as a deliberate mis-interpretation of my post. I wasn't discussing or mentioned poor aircraft participation at any time, I was discussing the reduced number of shows whilst still offering what (compared to 90% of other airshows in the UK) very poor value for money.
rdchawk wrote:£30 for a 3 hour flying display is very expensive!
Precisely, factor in 200 miles plus worth of fuel, food and drink and it is extremely poor value for money, regardless of what is flying. Adult advanced at Waddo this year was £24.... advanced at Flying Legends in 2015 are £31.50, advanced at RIAT is £36.... that says it all.
8hrs+ flying display plus static and ground shows for £4.50 an hour or.....
3hrs flying display plus the museum you can see you at any time plus flight line access you must pay extra for £10.50 an hour.
Pen Pusher wrote:I also like the way 'enthusiasts' seem to know what Joe Public want when actually it's what they want.
Enthusiasts are Joe Public too at airshow's, and also have families. When the children are bored stiff at Duxford because sweet FA is happening for 5 hours it very quickly puts you off going again.
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
boff180 wrote:Sally B (and others like it) for example benefit massively from being present on the ground at a show and not just flying at it. This year that exposure is being reduced, especially at Duxford.
No its not, if anything Sally-B's exposure at Duxford is increasing.
Sally-B Experience
Brian
- capercaillie
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Hasboman wrote:jayne_morris wrote:why has the show in october been dropped ?
I think the weather last year was enough to put them off - saying that Legends (Sunday) wasn't that much better this year!
Probably because of the kicking it got on here for the September show, they just thought you know what, I can't be arsed with any more than three a year!
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=63013&start=75
http://www.airshows.co.uk/reports/uk/2014/iwm-duxford-air-show/
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
boff180 wrote:rdchawk wrote:£30 for a 3 hour flying display is very expensive!
Precisely, factor in 200 miles plus worth of fuel, food and drink and it is extremely poor value for money, regardless of what is flying. Adult advanced at Waddo this year was £24.... advanced at Flying Legends in 2015 are £31.50.... that says it all.
Think that sums it up perfectly, Duxford is terrible value for money compared to elsewhere. Yeovilton being another prime example at £18 for an advance ticket, six and a bit hours of flying and taking full advantage of the aircraft they have...the Commando Assault, special flypasts etc. Think it was at the September show, may have been Legends, but the Spitfire routine was cut short massively to a couple of minutes. The volume of Spitfires that Duxford offers is superior to other venues and are one of the real highlights of any show there, but on this occasion, along with many other star items are massively underused. The Peashooter at Legends was another example, being displayed so distantly, the quality of aircraft at Duxford is great, but it often feels that they are trying to fit too much in, Andy's suggestion of a longer display would give more time for all the acts...especially the stars to be giving the time they deserve. If shown properly then the entry price may be more understandable, but when the star items are not taking full advantage of it makes the shows even worse value for money and the appeal of the fields even greater.
boff180 wrote:Pen Pusher wrote:I also like the way 'enthusiasts' seem to know what Joe Public want when actually it's what they want.
Enthusiasts are Joe Public at airshow's, and also have families. When the children are bored stiff at Duxford because sweet FA is happening for 5 hours it very quickly puts you off going again.
We went as a large family visit to one of the Duxford a few years ago for my Grandad's birthday and that is one of the big problems that they had with Duxford...the amount of time waiting around. If the show were to start at 11, then, as Andy says there would still be time for the Flightline walk so the lack of revenue from that can't be cited as an issue. I said yesterday on twitter that an earlier start could actually benefit the IWM. Giving people less time to explore the museum, while still getting a taste for it during the show day could result in more people making a return visit on a non airshow day in order to spend more time looking around the museum hangars.
The only reason that I can see for not starting the display earlier would be if there was a deal with Classic Wings that the airshow doesn't start until a certain time. Judging by how busy they are on airshow days compared to ordinary days when I have visited, they must do a significant percentage of their business on airshow mornings.
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
rdchawk wrote:But what some people might think are filler items could be someone else s quality
There are well know items which boost tickets sales, and there is evidence to prove it.
- HuwJHopkins
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Here's a suggestion. If you find the morning boring, and don't take interest in perusing the hangars, stalls and chit chatting with folk, might I suggest you turn up later...? Or, better still, if you really don't want to go then...don't. It's fairly simple. There are plenty of 'enthusiasts' who never have a good word to say about Duxford yet seem to return time upon time and are surprised when *they* still don't enjoy it. Despite the 'paucity' of airshows in the UK at the moment, in recent years, and indeed planned for next year, I have barely got a weekend free between May and mid-September!
You say you want more value for money in the form of a longer flying display, but surely you can see that would cost twice as much and therefore be unfeasable. Besides, you'd all only complain further that the earlier hours of the display would be even more backlit! I personally think £32 for the worlds premier warbird airshow is a steal.
Besides, there isn't an issue at all when looking at crowd numbers, bar the Autumn show, in recent years. More often than not it's been rammed full - Legends is Legends and always pulls in the crowds, September 2014 (sell out), Spring 2013 the Eagle Squadron et al attracted a large turnout, oh and September 2010 when they had to shut the gates because of the small matter of 16 Spitfires. Next year's Battle of Britain show looks to do the same, albeit being ticket only because demand for mass-gatherings of Spitfires will undoubtedly draw the crowds again. If there was a dire issue with Duxford, the lace would be empty at each show, which simply isn't true.
So, that's me out. People can carry on with their strange vendettas against Duxford and the likes whilst the rest of us do what we enjoy. See you all there at some point. Probably even those who hate the place...
PS, when will people finally realise that the Spitfire and Hurricane sequence was cut short on one day by the Red Arrows and the other day by a Mustang with an emergency. I suppose it's just easier to subagenda Duxford further.
You say you want more value for money in the form of a longer flying display, but surely you can see that would cost twice as much and therefore be unfeasable. Besides, you'd all only complain further that the earlier hours of the display would be even more backlit! I personally think £32 for the worlds premier warbird airshow is a steal.
Besides, there isn't an issue at all when looking at crowd numbers, bar the Autumn show, in recent years. More often than not it's been rammed full - Legends is Legends and always pulls in the crowds, September 2014 (sell out), Spring 2013 the Eagle Squadron et al attracted a large turnout, oh and September 2010 when they had to shut the gates because of the small matter of 16 Spitfires. Next year's Battle of Britain show looks to do the same, albeit being ticket only because demand for mass-gatherings of Spitfires will undoubtedly draw the crowds again. If there was a dire issue with Duxford, the lace would be empty at each show, which simply isn't true.
So, that's me out. People can carry on with their strange vendettas against Duxford and the likes whilst the rest of us do what we enjoy. See you all there at some point. Probably even those who hate the place...
PS, when will people finally realise that the Spitfire and Hurricane sequence was cut short on one day by the Red Arrows and the other day by a Mustang with an emergency. I suppose it's just easier to subagenda Duxford further.
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- Pen Pusher
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Now that I'm a Friends of Duxford(Senior), Legends is only £21.60 for me each day.
I'm looking forward to the bun fight when the people who frequent that little grassed area down the M11 end find out that the fence line has been moved back and is about half the size it used to be.
Brian
I'm looking forward to the bun fight when the people who frequent that little grassed area down the M11 end find out that the fence line has been moved back and is about half the size it used to be.
Brian
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Strange if you have concerns or worries with the route a show is going it is a vendetta.
The last show I went to was the 2014 D-Day show and haven't been back since, Ive also never been outside. The logic that the show would cost twice as much with a larger flying display is quite possibly lala land, otherwise shows with almost 3x as long displays would cost three times as much as Duxford.
But no I'll put my head in the ground and pretend nothing's wrong and anyone that says otherwise I'll accuse of having a vendetta..... Does strike of not being able to put a coherent argument against the logic together so will dismiss it some other way...
Will I be back this year, nope, there are much cheaper shows out there where I will see more in one day in better company.
The last show I went to was the 2014 D-Day show and haven't been back since, Ive also never been outside. The logic that the show would cost twice as much with a larger flying display is quite possibly lala land, otherwise shows with almost 3x as long displays would cost three times as much as Duxford.
But no I'll put my head in the ground and pretend nothing's wrong and anyone that says otherwise I'll accuse of having a vendetta..... Does strike of not being able to put a coherent argument against the logic together so will dismiss it some other way...
Will I be back this year, nope, there are much cheaper shows out there where I will see more in one day in better company.
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Pen Pusher wrote:
I'm looking forward to the bun fight when the people who frequent that little grassed area down the M11 end find out that the fence line has been moved back and is about half the size it used to be.
Plenty of room outside the show, if Duxford want to keep shooting themselves in the foot!!
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
While I do find the amount of hate for Duxford on this forum a bit puzzling at times everyone is entitled to their opinion. However I find Duxford shows a lot more pleasant when compared to Fairford which I have no intention of racing back to anytime soon. With no Waddington this year me and my dad plan on doing two Duxford shows this year Flying Legends being one, the other one we still haven't decided on yet.
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Private Custard wrote: if Duxford want to keep shooting themselves in the foot!!
Where have Duxford shot themselves in the foot. They have a formula that can fill an air show to crowd capacity. If it's not broken don't fix it.
Suck it up. If you don't like it don't go. Simples.
Brian
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
HuwJHopkins wrote:PS, when will people finally realise that the Spitfire and Hurricane sequence was cut short on one day by the Red Arrows and the other day by a Mustang with an emergency. I suppose it's just easier to subagenda Duxford further.
I realise the cause for the Spitfire sequence was cut short on the Sunday because of those reasons, but I heard that it was a very short sequence on the Saturday as well compared to what one would expect from one of the show's stars.
I found the Eagle Squadron show a couple of years ago brilliant and a great example of what Duxford can do, don't think there is an issue of 'hate' towards Duxford shows. But when they set the bar so high, then expectations will be higher and they have to find ways of dealing with that, to offer the customer the same high quality...a longer display would be an option for improving the experience for the customer. Although I agree with Huw's point that people would be unhappy with anything flying early due to the light...I would certainly be one to moan
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Pen Pusher wrote:Where have Duxford shot themselves in the foot. They have a formula that can fill an air show to crowd capacity. If it's not broken don't fix it.
I'd call reducing the size of one of the best viewing spots, shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that not only do you not see it as a problem, but also find the problem it could cause amusing, reflects badly on yourself to be honest.
It's just another small thing in a pile of many small things, that makes a large pile to dislike.
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
I hang out at the M11 end at air shows and don't have a problem and believe me it is amusing watching grown men bickering as they get in each others way as they try to swing a zoom around.
Brian
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Pen Pusher wrote:I hang out at the M11 end at air shows and don't have a problem and believe me it is amusing watching grown men bickering as they get in each others way as they try to swing a zoom around.
Brian
But that's not fun. removing decent areas, and cramming people in just isn't fun. If you're going to Duxford to take photos, the ends are the places to be. If the M11 end is shrinking, causing rows, and the windbreak warriors are still pissing everyone off at the Tank-Bank end, my desire to spend any time there is diminishing
If anyone wants me, I'll be at Old Warden, sat relaxing on the grass with a picnic, in a stress-free environment!
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
If you can't have fun at an air show, what's the point of going.
Of course we're assuming there will be air shows next year. Depends if the CAA are satisfied with the restrictions that were put in place this year to stop people going south side.
Brian
Of course we're assuming there will be air shows next year. Depends if the CAA are satisfied with the restrictions that were put in place this year to stop people going south side.
Brian
Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Valid comments and criticism on both sides (I know.. I'm boring ) notwithstanding, I'm looking forward to seeing what Dux has to offer next season. Their spring shows these past few years have been excellent.
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Re: 2015 Airshow Dates Announced
Private Custard wrote:Pen Pusher wrote:Where have Duxford shot themselves in the foot. They have a formula that can fill an air show to crowd capacity. If it's not broken don't fix it.
I'd call reducing the size of one of the best viewing spots, shooting themselves in the foot. The fact that not only do you not see it as a problem, but also find the problem it could cause amusing, reflects badly on yourself to be honest.
It's just another small thing in a pile of many small things, that makes a large pile to dislike.
Well there's plenty of prime viewing space......oh wait no there isn't as it usually has chairs, windbreaks and brolleys attached to the fence so no-one can get near the front or a good viewing spot.
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