Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 26 May 2015, 1:04 pm

Seajet wrote:So basically they cant do nada or stop you enjoying the naughty field
Unless they lease the fields from the landowner(s) for the duration on the airshow......unlikely , though , as the cost would probably be prohibitive.

Timc wrote:IWM had employed "security" personnel to "enforce" that nobody used the said fields.
Unless the roads and footpaths leading to the fields had been closed by the Police ( Town Police Clauses Act & Road Traffic Regulation Act ) , they have no power to prevent anyone from accessing anywhere which isn't within the bounds of the event or belonging to the event organisers. Even then , they couldn't stop you from entering the fields via other routes.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby neilos on Tue 26 May 2015, 3:24 pm

fin_grant wrote:The naughty field experience can be found here, if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuWNb0XlAKY


:drool: think for Legends it's gonna be one day in, and one day in the naughty field.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby paullangford on Tue 26 May 2015, 4:45 pm

Private Custard wrote:It couldn't happen. Not in a million years.

As soon as you charge, you're required to provide things like toilets, medical facilities (St Johns Ambulance), and most importantly, insurance. Imagine trying to get insurance for an area directly underneath the display line!


One of the houses on Hunts Road were charging £5 to park and watch the show, don't think they had insurance, or medical facilities........but they did have a BBQ and a bush.......which was a nice touch :)
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 26 May 2015, 4:52 pm

And in the event that an incident happened which affected them , they'd have been well and truly stuffed.
And said incident could have been anything -- a collision between vehicles , someone falling over or being hit by a car , getting food poisoning , burning themselves , anything.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Thoughtful_Flyer on Tue 26 May 2015, 7:10 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:And in the event that an incident happened which affected them , they'd have been well and truly stuffed.
And said incident could have been anything -- a collision between vehicles , someone falling over or being hit by a car , getting food poisoning , burning themselves , anything.


Quite.

One also wonders if the school / PTA or whatever are properly covered for their airshow enterprises. I would have thought it is stretching it at best.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Timc on Tue 26 May 2015, 7:31 pm

Interesting!

So what liabilities are Air Show Organisers in for, on and within the Showground?!

Don't think it's printed on the reverse side of the ticket, even in small print but I stand corrected on that one! :smile:
Timc

Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 26 May 2015, 8:12 pm

That's where it gets complicated.
Some events will have liability exemptions printed on the ticket or on their website , but then the argument is whether or not you were made aware of those exemptions prior to purchasing the ticket.
Similarly , if it's 'pay at the gate' , there should be clearly visible notices listing the exemptions before you reach the ticket kiosk.
With regards carparks at events , the exemptions ( such as the usual 'parking at owners risk' ) should be displayed prior to the entrance , or if the signs are within the carpark areas there should be the facility for vehicles to leave if the owners don't wish to accept those terms.

Much of the regulations date back to the 1950s 'Occupiers Liability Act' , with a lot more recent regulations due to the various Health & Safety legislation.
I seem to recall posting a link ( or more ) concerning this in another topic a couple of years ago......it may even have been in a previous 'naughty field' topic.

Edited to add.....
Occupiers Liability Act 1957 : http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/5-6/31/resources if anyone fancies a read.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby aaron0288 on Tue 26 May 2015, 8:21 pm

Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:And in the event that an incident happened which affected them , they'd have been well and truly stuffed.
And said incident could have been anything -- a collision between vehicles , someone falling over or being hit by a car , getting food poisoning , burning themselves , anything.


Quite.

One also wonders if the school / PTA or whatever are properly covered for their airshow enterprises. I would have thought it is stretching it at best.


There's no way in hell the school would be doing what it's doing if it wasn't supposed to. I mean it's a school near an airfield. Not like it's any different to any other day with Spitfires etc flying over.
aaron0288

Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Tommy on Tue 26 May 2015, 9:35 pm

aaron0288 wrote:
Thoughtful_Flyer wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:And in the event that an incident happened which affected them , they'd have been well and truly stuffed.
And said incident could have been anything -- a collision between vehicles , someone falling over or being hit by a car , getting food poisoning , burning themselves , anything.


Quite.

One also wonders if the school / PTA or whatever are properly covered for their airshow enterprises. I would have thought it is stretching it at best.


There's no way in hell the school would be doing what it's doing if it wasn't supposed to. I mean it's a school near an airfield. Not like it's any different to any other day with Spitfires etc flying over.


The school has been doing it for years, I'm sure some sort of dialogue must have taken place between IWM and them regarding what they do.

Don't forget that the warbirds et al have to avoid flying directly over Duxford village, either flying behind or cutting in front of it so perhaps they might not fall within the same criterion. How far do you go, for example? If an aircraft is transiting and something goes wrong, and it happens to be overflying a village fete, what then? There has to be some margin for error. As far as the school is concerned, they are hosting a bit of a BBQ and fund-raiser, and an airshow happens to be going on nearby - I know that's very crude, but the point is there (I hope).

Leaving all the above ropey hypotheticals (it's been a while since I was writing my essays on trespass and the like.. :sick: ) aside for a second, one thing I always ask in relation to the naughtyfield question is how does the cricket club at Cosford manage, or Totterdown/Rhymes at Fairford, or whatever at pretty much place outside of any show? Again, they've been doing it for years and years, I'm sure the shows will have had some sort of correspondence with them on the issue. Seems thoroughly irresponsible if they haven't, even if it's just a friendly "you'll need insurance to do this" warning from the organisers.

I went to the naughty field for a bit on Saturday whilst killing time before going to OW, before doing Duxford "proper" on Sunday, and the police sort of rode up and down Grange Road on bikes, looked into the fields, saw people there and carried on. People in the fields, despite the six foot fences clearly weren't their concern. They seemed to be making sure the road was kept clear.

I couldn't help wondering whether those fences across access points would hinder the access for emergency vehicles from Grange Road if something were to happen? I may be wrong, but isn't that the one of the reasons they close the road/take such measures in the first place? I'm probably missing a point, but it seems like they are hitting themselves in the nose to spite the face to me... :dunno:

There were private security walking up and down the road (or at least I saw two different guys) who seemed to care a bit more about those in the field, but they never asked anyone to move along or anything.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby WG655 on Tue 26 May 2015, 9:57 pm

It's a bizzare one this. Perhaps the hired security is another insurance strategy run by the museum alongside the notices beforehand - i.e. if something happened, and the party involved had somehow not seen the notices then there is still no ability to sue because there was a visible police/security presence.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby aaron0288 on Tue 26 May 2015, 10:33 pm

The word 'sue' keeps cropping up. This isn't aimed at anyone directly, more an observation on how these threads usually go. People who are dead against others going into the naughty field like to use the "oh the freeloaders who go into the fields will be the first to sue if anything goes wrong" line. That's just not true. I reckon 99.9% of the people who do it, me included, know the risks, take full responsibility if anything does go wrong and hypothetically, if they started charging £30 to go in the field, would still go in the field!

I get to leave my house at half 10 for the hour and a half journey, rock up to the school at midday, pay the £8 regardless of how many occupants are in the car which goes directly to the school, enjoy my free cup of tea and a fab BBQ, get the best view of the planes you can possibly get, no annoying music or commentators, just pure engine sounds, then have a nice leisurely stroll back to the car and straight out of Duxford with no hassle whatsoever. I then visit the museum a couple of times a year. To me, it's a no brainier. I don't take photos, I just absolutely love planes. Nothing beats having the Typhoon upside down above your head and peering into the cockpit as it thunders over you.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby WG655 on Tue 26 May 2015, 10:58 pm

aaron0288 wrote:People who are dead against others going into the naughty field like to use the "oh the freeloaders who go into the fields will be the first to sue if anything goes wrong" line. That's just not true.


I appreciate that is how it could be perceived, however in actual fact I agree that those physically in the field probably do know the risk. My remark was referring more towards the likely actions of family members and other parties should (god forbid) there be a fatality there rather than the actual spectators present.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby aaron0288 on Wed 27 May 2015, 7:36 am

My comment wasn't directly aimed at you. That is a very good point though. I would still imagine though that the majority of even family members wouldn't go that route.
aaron0288

Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby benji1867 on Wed 27 May 2015, 8:37 am

aaron0288 wrote: I reckon 99.9% of the people who do it, me included, know the risks, take full responsibility if anything does go wrong and hypothetically, if they started charging £30 to go in the field, would still go in the field!

I get to leave my house at half 10 for the hour and a half journey, rock up to the school at midday, pay the £8 regardless of how many occupants are in the car which goes directly to the school, enjoy my free cup of tea and a fab BBQ, get the best view of the planes you can possibly get, no annoying music or commentators, just pure engine sounds, then have a nice leisurely stroll back to the car and straight out of Duxford with no hassle whatsoever. I then visit the museum a couple of times a year. To me, it's a no brainier. I don't take photos, I just absolutely love planes. Nothing beats having the Typhoon upside down above your head and peering into the cockpit as it thunders over you.


This is the perfect explanation of why i use the fields. Stayed at the Premier Inn at Stansted, departed there at 1215 on the Sunday, arrived at 1240, zero traffic, strolled to the field, right to the front, no jostling for position and then fighting off kids and other people trying to muscle in on your area, best seat in the house, best positions for photography and no stress getting out. Absolute no brainer in my eyes and ill be back there for Legends and the September show.

Ben
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 27 May 2015, 8:57 am

Tommy wrote:one thing I always ask in relation to the naughtyfield question is how does the cricket club at Cosford manage, or Totterdown/Rhymes at Fairford, or whatever at pretty much place outside of any show? Again, they've been doing it for years and years, I'm sure the shows will have had some sort of correspondence with them on the issue. Seems thoroughly irresponsible if they haven't, even if it's just a friendly "you'll need insurance to do this" warning from the organisers.
You'll likely find that the school & cricket club would be covered under their normal insurance. The Fairford farms are also temporary campsites , so I'd think they would also be covered by insurance
There's a difference between entering somewhere such as the school , where you pay to enter , and the 'naughty field' where you are uninvited ( technically , trespassing )....both would have a 'duty of care' , but it would be less for the field.
People in the fields, despite the six foot fences clearly weren't their concern. They seemed to be making sure the road was kept clear.
The fields being private property , they wouldn't usually take any action unless the landowner requests it. There are exceptions , such as if they were disrupting a nearby event , but in that case the event organisers would have to request it.

There were private security walking up and down the road (or at least I saw two different guys) who seemed to care a bit more about those in the field, but they never asked anyone to move along or anything.

Again , as the field is private property unconnected to the event - and presumably not owned by the IWM - they would have no legal right to do anything.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby G-AMPY on Sat 30 May 2015, 2:19 pm

Maybe Duxford should focus on keeping the aircraft the distance away from the paying public given in the rule books rather that making so much efforts in the naughty fields. I've seen a number of photos of aircraft directly overflying the crowds near the tank bank.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Ian G on Tue 07 Jul 2015, 3:10 pm

Does the school car park fill up quickly? I am thinking of coming down for one of the days and arriving at perhaps midday, would I still be able to get in and more importantly will there be any shrimps left on the barbie?
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Tue 07 Jul 2015, 3:23 pm

Ian G wrote:Does the school car park fill up quickly? I am thinking of coming down for one of the days and arriving at perhaps midday, would I still be able to get in and more importantly will there be any shrimps left on the barbie?

Should be fine. From past experience it only fills up rapidly if there's something major like the two Lancs or Vulcan booked. BBQ is often still going at 5-6pm.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Ian G on Fri 10 Jul 2015, 4:22 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
Ian G wrote:Does the school car park fill up quickly? I am thinking of coming down for one of the days and arriving at perhaps midday, would I still be able to get in and more importantly will there be any shrimps left on the barbie?

Should be fine. From past experience it only fills up rapidly if there's something major like the two Lancs or Vulcan booked. BBQ is often still going at 5-6pm.


Thanks, I shall be venturing down in the morning - may see some of you there. . . I shall be in the long coat, dark glasses and false beard in case someone recognises me and moans at me.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby lozza on Fri 10 Jul 2015, 8:51 pm

Had a lovely day today on the mound in the naughty field, but just to let you know fences are now up all along the lane anywhere that gives access to the fields with Private property bla bla bla notices over them..
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Tommy on Fri 10 Jul 2015, 8:54 pm

They were in place for the May show, too.
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby lozza on Fri 10 Jul 2015, 9:22 pm

Tommy wrote:They were in place for the May show, too.


Thats fair enough wasn't aware :up: :up:
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Ian G on Fri 10 Jul 2015, 9:45 pm

Are the fields still accessible then?
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Re: Anyone visit the naughty field today?

Postby Pen Pusher on Sat 11 Jul 2015, 5:31 am

Ian G wrote:Are the fields still accessible then?


If you are worried then you can always pay and go in.

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