Flying Legends 2016

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby cw318is on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 1:04 pm

It was no more crowded then usual to be fair, just seemed that way because rather then having x number of people on a hill they were on the flat.

PA equipment was the biggest annoyance yesterday, seemed a bit temperamental like when the USAF commentator announced the heritage arrival arriving from rear right just as they ran in for the second pass from the left, and lots of background noise like Elly Sallingboe telling Bernard to shut up.
DamienB wrote:Airshows aren't just about sunlit topsides chaps.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby hardtarget on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 1:24 pm

RE the spits it wouldn't surprise me if the performance was curtailed due to the manoeuvres. They did look a little out of sorts at the top of the roll and in close proximity from the Fighter Collection enclosure, but that's just my view.

I'm not sure why the Comanche spits weren't there or the P-40F, max alpha spit/corsair, or morane 405.
hardtarget

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Reach1985 on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 2:39 pm

The P40F was jacked up in the TFC hangar. The Max Alpha birds disappeared from the FL website almost as quickly as they were listed (the day before the show i think) as did the Morane - though thats been listed for ages.

No word on the Comanche spits and the MKXVIII which is based at Humberside i think. Maybe i'm over thinking things but you would have thought that the Comanche spits if coming from the US would have been listed as 'withdrawn' earlier - did FL not want to list too many types as 'withdrawn' ahead of the show for fear of poor ticket sales? I only say this as the Tank Bank closure news was only confirmed as far as i am aware the day after the 'early bird' ticket sales finished? Coincidence?

In terms of numbers it certainly felt less busy than last year on the Saturday, out of interest does anyone know what a 'sell out' capacity crowd is at Duxford? Supposedly 14K yesterday but without a comparison it's hard to tell whether that is good or bad. I think RIAT had a knock on effect - someone somewhere should think about that in future.

One positive (and i'm sure i'll be crucified for saying this) was that there were fewer photographers this year - i'm not a photographer, i just like to watch the show, but last year was off the scale, there were some incredibly rude people (the 'big lens' brigade) on the Tank Bank - this wasn't totally eradicated if comments on this forum are to go by but at least as far as where i was sitting/standing things were less hostile!

I don't want to be too critical though as i can only imagine the amount of work that has gone into this show post Shoreham and i thought considering those circumstance it was a really good display - i'd like to thank the FL team for their efforts. As far as i could tell the display line wasn't far removed from what it was though some of the flying looked a little tamer than it has done - hats off too Fred Akary in "Moonbeam McSwine" though who certainly seemed to be flying with a certain abandon.

Apart from the ridiculous intro and commentary from the USAF (why are they so OTT? It's almost camp!) the Raptor and Mustang was a highlight. For those who say no jets at Legends where i was by the LWH there was a standing ovation when the Raptor finished - the only one of the day! The music could be curtailed too - why do you need that when you have piston engines!!

With a few of the fighters not there the Balbo was a bit thinner than usual - i think only 18 that i counted (+ P38 and B25 on the first pass) which meant it didn't have quite the impact as previous years.

It was a shame not to see Christophe Jacquard and his aircraft who have been pretty regular recently - does anyone know if he is taking time out as i don't think he was at La Fete either? Also it would be nice to see the Skyraiders again. On that subject does anyone know what happened too Kennet aviations version? I haven't seen or heard of it in recent years.

Like any small industry i believe there are certain 'politics' at play (or at least from what i have read) that means that some of the other warbird operators don't display at Legends which seems a real shame as it would be good to have hangar 11 present and Hardwick too (i do love Mustangs). I think in these straightened times with fewer shows (probably - with the new 'rules' and no big headline acts a la Vulcan i think a few may struggle) and more paper work and bureaucracy plus the insurance for the operators and airshow organisers that there is going to have to be a lot more cooperation if shows like Legends are going to continue and prosper - i'm only speculating but perhaps a conciliatory phone call or two might help as the industry will be a lot stronger together which will perhaps ensure there are not the major clashes in dates like this year and maybe a more varied and eclectic mix at the shows (which i'm sure every enthusiast would welcome) that are big enough to continue.
Reach1985

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby shellie on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 6:13 pm

I have to give credit where it is due, today was an AWESOME show.

I have been going to FL for 15 odd years, until 3 years ago a stalwart of the M11 end for photos, but then ventured to the dangerous area of the Tank Bank, which I instantly fell in love with, so when it was announced that the TB would be closed I was fully expecting this to be my last Legends (I thought it was going to be that bad).

However, how wrong I was.

It was quiet in the car park and entry queues at 8am, and the weather was grim.

Bang on 2pm the flying started and the clouds parted, so I was down at the M11 end and the flying was fantastic - so many "classic" M11 end fly bys, with lovely topsides - I was grinning from ear to ear all afternoon. Spitfires, Mustangs, Flying Bulls, US contingent, and oh, the Raptor (sacriligious ?? but incredible).

GREAT JOB FL2016 team - against all the odds, you made it work - chapeau, as Bernard would say.
shellie

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby FarnboroJohn on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 7:25 pm

shellie wrote:I have to give credit where it is due, today was an AWESOME show.

I have been going to FL for 15 odd years, until 3 years ago a stalwart of the M11 end for photos, but then ventured to the dangerous area of the Tank Bank, which I instantly fell in love with, so when it was announced that the TB would be closed I was fully expecting this to be my last Legends (I thought it was going to be that bad).

However, how wrong I was.

It was quiet in the car park and entry queues at 8am, and the weather was grim.

Bang on 2pm the flying started and the clouds parted, so I was down at the M11 end and the flying was fantastic - so many "classic" M11 end fly bys, with lovely topsides - I was grinning from ear to ear all afternoon. Spitfires, Mustangs, Flying Bulls, US contingent, and oh, the Raptor (sacriligious ?? but incredible).

GREAT JOB FL2016 team - against all the odds, you made it work - chapeau, as Bernard would say.


I'm with you on that: I have spent most of my Legends visits up by the East entrance to the Land Warfare Hall and then for the last two years the tank bank. After the complaints on here yesterday about the LWH slope I decided to try the front edge of the car park just West of American Aerospace and it was great (not takeoff shots but nice light most of the time and no problems with tall people's heads). The flying was inventive, if anything there were more topside passes than usual and quite a varied programme even without the F22, which was (I hate to say this, I would only really accept a Meteor or 262 at Legends) incredible.

Next year I may try the M11 end!

A great Legends (what a relief): the world is still turning.

John
FarnboroJohn

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Dragon Rapide on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:09 pm

After all the negative anticipation it is really good to read these last few reports on this year's Legends. Sorry not to have attended for the first time in years but so delighted for everyone who enjoyed it. Roll on 2017 with new hop :biggrin: :clap: e!
Listen to that Gipsy music.....

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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Flyforfun on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:18 pm

Sat was poor by legends standards, felt more like a October show, still good to see the fighters though.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby DirtyFokker on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:52 pm

Flying Legends was a big improvement over the May air show! The display axes appeared to be much better placed. The crowd line near the old airliners has been moved to a much better location :yahoo:

I know some people on here don't like Bernard Chabbert's commentary, but I think he's absolutely fine. One of my "party" thinks he is very knowledgeable! :biggrin:
Last edited by DirtyFokker on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Ryan. on Sun 10 Jul 2016, 8:54 pm

Went on the Sunday after a Saturday at RIAT, more than a little concerned about the new layout however I thought it was a vast improvement. There were some displays, EP120 as the Joker for example, that felt no different at all and being closer to the aircraft land and take off (I was standing at the M-11 end) is a nice touch.

In terms of participation it wasn't a classic Legends and a number of cancellations didn't help matters. The Mustang tail chase was particularly lonely with Miss Velma going sick. However it was still a good display with some nice highlights, the Avenger and Fury for a start.

I do think the new layout is a step in the right direction.
Ryan.

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby EGL on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:07 pm

Not a classic, but not having been to Legends for the last few years I thoroughly enjoyed Saturday.

Arrived before 8am and joined the q to get into the car park next to AAM. Main issue seemed to be with several cars being sent out at the ticket desk (presume with no ticket!) and the traffic going from about 8 lanes at the ticket booths down to 1 lane to get to the car park. Parked up and walked to the crowdline to find no spaces at the fence from the AAM up to the end at the LWH. Ended up pitching my seat between two wind-breaks at the top of the hill overlooking everything else. Good compromise to not getting on the crowdline but obviously not as close as the Tank Bank for take-off's etc. Other benefit of that location was I couldn't hear the commentary that well!!!

Nice to see some great topside's during the display but unfortunately most didn't commence until the aircraft were in line with the AAM so not able to take advantage from my location.

As someone else commented it seemed slightly ironic that the only spontaneous round of applause during the whole display was after the F-22 had displayed! Sorry - there was one more round of applause - for Nick Grey after parking up the Gladiator after his display. I htink I heard something with the brakes on my scanner but obviously nothing serious as it was back up as the Joker later.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby eddywinch82 on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 4:09 pm

I had an superb weekend at Duxford. I went both days and the flying was excellent, I was made up to see topside passes too, which were lacking at the May Airshow. So many highlights, The Blenheim, Gladiator, Hurricane and Mk1 Spitfire routine and formation was a joy to witness, where else in the world could you see that ! Also the F22 Raptor and Mustang formation was particularly memorable followed by some extremely loud afterburner passes by the Raptor, setting off car alarms fantastic ! I also enjoyed the Red bull contigent of B25, P38 and Corsair in fact I enjoyed everything. My only complaint was that the opening Spitfire tailchase seemed rather short both days, compared with previous Flying Legends. The flying from that sequence was awesome however, especially the TFC Spitfire XIV doing it's own thing whilst the other Spitfires tailchased. The Norwegian Dakota put on a marvelous display, really being thrown around ! I really liked its curving crowd rear arrival. And I thoroughly enjoyed the other DC3 doing various formation flypasts with the two Beech 18's. Whilst I enjoyed the May Airshow, the flying at this weekends Airshow at Duxford was on another level ! Topside passes and loops similar to previous Flying Legends Airshows ))) I love the unique Messerschmitt whistle on the Buchons too, different to the Mustang, even with a Merlin engine. I can't wait until next years Airshow ! :biggrin: :biggrin:
eddywinch82

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby UKTopgun on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 6:19 pm

Indeed. Reports of Duxford's demise have been wildly exaggerated. This was back to Duxford at its best. The new crowd line really helped. The aircraft selection was nice and varied, albeit there were some canx items. But it was the flying itself that really stood out. World-class.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby DocStirling on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 7:08 pm

FOD enclosure - a 'well kept secret' I discovered this time around, but I may try the M11 end next year - anything to get away from families with kids who aren't at all interested in the flying....

Only two threads on the Airshow photos forum...that must be a negative record for FL?

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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby The Baron on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 7:09 pm

So which aircraft didn't turn up/display?
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Gareth Horne on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 8:47 pm

Given all the changes I was undecided if to attend this year, but in the end I relented bought a ticket Friday for the Sunday show. Drove straight in, arriving at 8:15 and parked up behind the American Air Museum. The advance ticket only policy certainly seemed to improve the traffic situation which has been an issue in the past at Duxford. No problem getting out at 6:30 either, which was good.

Initially my impression was 'where is everybody?' the place looked almost empty but it did fill up steadily throughout the morning, I suppose if everyone knows they've got a ticket, plus a car parking space, they can arrive over a period of hours, rather than a mad rush to get in before the gates close (remember the Spitfire 60th Show in 1996 when the whole area gridlocked?!). So, whilst I'm not a fan of advance ticket only events, I can see the advantages, and it must make a significant saving in staff costs and equipment for the organisers not having to handle so many cash and electronic purchases in the field, on the day.

It's been several years since I've watched a show from the M11 end, I must say I was pleasantly surprised. Ok, its not got the elevated views and closeness to the action of the Tank Bank, but with the new crowd lines centre and east were generally nice places to be. Not overly crowded, I wandered down to a position by the 24 hold at 2PM and was only one row back from the railing with good views of the aircraft doing their power checks and beginning their take off runs. General public were spread out all over the concrete pan, enjoying the show, rather than pressed up in a scrum as I'd thought may be the case. A 400mm lens on a crop sensor DSLR body seems about the minimum for most displays this year unfortunately, something I fear we will have to learn to live with if displays are to continue. I was pleasantly surprised by the number of curving topside passes and the enthusiasm of the pilots to display their aircraft given the new rules and regulations.

Much as I 'don't do jets' I loved the F22 Raptor Heritage Flight, certainly a highlight for me, whatever the purists think about modern metal and Legends, I'm sure the vast majority thought it was great. Other highlights? Well I'm always a sucker for Kestrel engined Hawker biplanes (the Fury and Nimrod) and the newly painted Hawker Sea Fury in prototype markings looked lovely in the evening light. If only we could re arrange Duxford so we don't spend most of the display looking straight into the sun...

So I think the new layout works well, given the constraints placed upon them for airshows. From what I saw yesterday I'll be attending again.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby cuban8 on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 9:54 am

Went to Legends on the Sunday and all in all had a good day. Arrived at 0930 with entrance and surrounding roads totally devoid of cars, so an easy drive in to the site. Leaving at the end of the day (1900ish) was also easy and we just drove straight out. Definitely far fewer in attendance again and this was reflected in the FoD enclosure that we always use, as although busy, there wasn't the numbers that we've seen in the past. Not a problem, as it makes things so much more comfortable. Our thanks again to the volunteers who work so hard for the members.
The airshow itself was just about OK in my opinion, clearly the aircraft are still taking it very easy after the recent changes, so thank heavens for the F22 to liven things up a bit. Very disappointed at the Balbo, and as impressive as seeing a large group of aircraft is, it is a bit tedious if all they do is just fly round straight and level a couple of times and then break and land. Why no tail chase from a few of them at the end?
The outside ground exhibits and entertainment were also a bit lacking in variety and could do with a revamp.

My wife and I have been attending airshows for over forty years because we love aeroplanes and in particular warbirds and classic jets. We do like to be entertained as well though, so we're very much in favour of mixing things up a bit during a themed event. Why not have a team of aerobatic Extras or Sukhois, a parachute jump, glider demo or even a commercial airliner giving a flypast - it's all been done before so why is the emphasis changing? What we don't want are shows that are 'pickled in aspic' without any variety............dare I say it?..........they risk becoming a tad boring? Let's not forget that airshows need to be attractive to a wide cross section of attendees and not just the intense enthusiasts if they are to remain viable.
cuban8

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 11:28 am

My wife and I have been attending airshows for over forty years because we love aeroplanes and in particular warbirds and classic jets. We do like to be entertained as well though, so we're very much in favour of mixing things up a bit during a themed event. Why not have a team of aerobatic Extras or Sukhois, a parachute jump, glider demo or even a commercial airliner giving a flypast - it's all been done before so why is the emphasis changing? What we don't want are shows that are 'pickled in aspic' without any variety............dare I say it?..........they risk becoming a tad boring? Let's not forget that airshows need to be attractive to a wide cross section of attendees and not just the intense enthusiasts if they are to remain viable.


You just described Every Other Airshow.

Legends, if it returns next year, must be all about vintage aviation. Preferably pre-1960. If you must see Extras, Pitts and Sukhoi aerobatic types, there are plenty of family-type events to cater for you.

Leave Legends for the purists. Keep it stoically high-brow, and never dumb it down to cater for the masses. Legends has issues, big ones, but diluting the display with the type of guff that infests every other show would be the absolute death of the event.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby AFKAMC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 12:12 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
My wife and I have been attending airshows for over forty years because we love aeroplanes and in particular warbirds and classic jets. We do like to be entertained as well though, so we're very much in favour of mixing things up a bit during a themed event. Why not have a team of aerobatic Extras or Sukhois, a parachute jump, glider demo or even a commercial airliner giving a flypast - it's all been done before so why is the emphasis changing? What we don't want are shows that are 'pickled in aspic' without any variety............dare I say it?..........they risk becoming a tad boring? Let's not forget that airshows need to be attractive to a wide cross section of attendees and not just the intense enthusiasts if they are to remain viable.


You just described Every Other Airshow.

Legends, if it returns next year, must be all about vintage aviation. Preferably pre-1960. If you must see Extras, Pitts and Sukhoi aerobatic types, there are plenty of family-type events to cater for you.

Leave Legends for the purists. Keep it stoically high-brow, and never dumb it down to cater for the masses. Legends has issues, big ones, but diluting the display with the type of guff that infests every other show would be the absolute death of the event.


You’ve already predicted the death of Flying Legends at least once.

See the “No access to the Tank Bank" thread: “Duxford's last rites. RIP.”

Seems the corpse doesn’t know it’s a corpse yet. Just saying.

And I’m loving how some of the “purists” on here are guiltily admitting how much they enjoyed the F-22. I don’t blame them, I wish I’d got to see it display with the P-51 at RIAT on Saturday.
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Georgeconna on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 1:15 pm

Word on the ground from various people were saying the TFC are re locating to France and that could well be the end of Legends. How true that is is something I cant vouch for.

I went, It was ok but not a pinch on previous ones. I enjoyed the sight and sound of the various machines. The French Commentator was just painful bumbling on and on and on.

Will I go again. Not sure, Maybe if IAT / Legends are on the same weekend but not especially for the Show itself.
Cheers

George

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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 1:30 pm

The sell-off has already started with two of their aircraft acquired by Weald Aviation.
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby capercaillie on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 2:08 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
My wife and I have been attending airshows for over forty years because we love aeroplanes and in particular warbirds and classic jets. We do like to be entertained as well though, so we're very much in favour of mixing things up a bit during a themed event. Why not have a team of aerobatic Extras or Sukhois, a parachute jump, glider demo or even a commercial airliner giving a flypast - it's all been done before so why is the emphasis changing? What we don't want are shows that are 'pickled in aspic' without any variety............dare I say it?..........they risk becoming a tad boring? Let's not forget that airshows need to be attractive to a wide cross section of attendees and not just the intense enthusiasts if they are to remain viable.


You just described Every Other Airshow.

Legends, if it returns next year, must be all about vintage aviation. Preferably pre-1960. If you must see Extras, Pitts and Sukhoi aerobatic types, there are plenty of family-type events to cater for you.

Leave Legends for the purists. Keep it stoically high-brow, and never dumb it down to cater for the masses. Legends has issues, big ones, but diluting the display with the type of guff that infests every other show would be the absolute death of the event.



First flew in 1944, right in the era Legends is famed for. Its piston engined and undoubtedly more a true classic of all time than many of the so called warbirds that fly in the show each year. :dunno:
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby JJC on Thu 14 Jul 2016, 10:30 pm

Georgeconna wrote:Word on the ground from various people were saying the TFC are re locating to France and that could well be the end of Legends. How true that is is something I cant vouch for.

I went, It was ok but not a pinch on previous ones. I enjoyed the sight and sound of the various machines. The French Commentator was just painful bumbling on and on and on.

Will I go again. Not sure, Maybe if IAT / Legends are on the same weekend but not especially for the Show itself.


Any info on the reasons for relocating? What a great loss to Duxford and the airshow industry as a whole.
''Time to dive into the fireworks!''
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Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby DaveBr on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 8:01 am

cuban8 wrote:Very disappointed at the Balbo, and as impressive as seeing a large group of aircraft is, it is a bit tedious if all they do is just fly round straight and level a couple of times and then break and land. Why no tail chase from a few of them at the end?


You would do well to seek out and read the article in last months Aeroplane magazine on this subject. There is a lot more than meets the eye in putting together a safe and successful Balbo.
Dave Brenchley Photography
http://www.davebrenchley.co.uk
DaveBr

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby FlyingMachinesTV on Fri 15 Jul 2016, 11:26 am

DaveBr wrote:
cuban8 wrote:Very disappointed at the Balbo, and as impressive as seeing a large group of aircraft is, it is a bit tedious if all they do is just fly round straight and level a couple of times and then break and land. Why no tail chase from a few of them at the end?


You would do well to seek out and read the article in last months Aeroplane magazine on this subject. There is a lot more than meets the eye in putting together a safe and successful Balbo.


Exactly! I'm guessing they were the only people disappointed in an amazing flypast of 20 warbirds!!!!
FlyingMachinesTV

Re: Flying Legends 2016

Postby Pen Pusher on Sun 17 Jul 2016, 5:09 pm



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