Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attached

Discuss airshows and other aviation events at the Imperial War Museum
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King Cobra
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by King Cobra »

Pen Pusher wrote:
benji1867 wrote:I take it you include yourself then Brian if the worst was to happen 'your' side of the fence?


Yes, and the photographs would be made available for crash investigators, not the press or the forums, besides if it it was a burning wreck the pilot wouldn't need rescuing.

Clutching at straws there trying to justify being in the fields in case there is a crash so you can help.

Brian



So only you would do the right thing in the event of the crash because anyone else would be "too busy taking photos to help." Save me the "holier then thou" please.

hmeasures
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by hmeasures »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
hmeasures wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:What if an aeroplane came down in the field, and there was no-one within half a mile to help the pilot out of a burning wreck? Just as likely a scenario as a spectator getting wiped out.


Glad to hear you're personally providing Duxford's fire and rescue service Dan - seems odd they have all those fire engines kicking about if you have it covered?


Now you mention it, one of the said fire crews were sat watching the show "naughty side" with their wife and kids a few years back.

And no-one died.

What is it about the field that brings out such pious holier-than-thou dimwittery on this forum?


I've watched from naughty fields before, Dan, although I shan't be going anywhere near them this year. I was merely mocking you for trying to justify going into naughty fields through being first response should an accident happen, which is quite frankly absurd.

Anyway, I'll leave you to your campaign to save airshows whilst also singing the praises of the naughty field :lmao:

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Pen Pusher »

Wonder if any one has been up close and personal to a liquid fuel fire. It was bad enough trying to put one out during annual fire training, and I had 31 years of doing that, in a 2ft square drip tray with the accelerate floating on top of water. You had to get in close to extinguish it and it was hot and unpredictable but apparently some people think you can run into several hundred gallons of burning fuel in shorts and tea shirt and pull a pilot out and get away with it without a scratch.

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King Cobra
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by King Cobra »

Pen Pusher wrote:Wonder if any one has been up close and personal to a liquid fuel fire. It was bad enough trying to put one out during annual fire training, and I had 31 years of doing that, in a 2ft square drip tray with the accelerate floating on top of water. You had to get in close to extinguish it and it was hot and unpredictable but apparently some people think you can run into several hundred gallons of burning fuel in shorts and tea shirt and pull a pilot out and get away with it without a scratch.

Brian


Not all crashes result in a fire. I agree though that in the event of an intense fire there is little the casual bystander can do.

TKK 140
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by TKK 140 »

It seems pretty clear that the only chance of any "safe" relaxation of the flight line rules, will rely on the professionals making the case. What will be a distraction is any third party action that detracts from that happening so trying to get into an obvious restricted zone is not going to help, if anyone is considering that an option.

Should a responsible forum consider whether to remove any pictures posted from areas obviously marked as restricted zones in the present climate?

I have a relative that regularly used that road at Shoreham and an anxious call to make sure all was OK was not something I would want to experience again. And that is nothing to how affected and devastated the lives of people directly involved have been.

I am looking forward to the weekend and hope all enjoy the show or try too in these uncharted waters.

I will continue to visit air shows and urge all others to do so, these venues need our support, and that is a big way to support them.

broadstairs
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by broadstairs »

I have been following this thread for a while now. I am amazed at some of the attitudes being propounded here, totally unbelievable. I feel that there are almost bound to be some folks who will be stupid enough to try to bypass these restrictions.

Sad it may be that these restrictions have been brought in but in some ways I feel people have been lucky not to have been caught out in an accident in the past, I remember the ME109 leaping over the M11 and ending up in the field the other side although no fire in that case, then there was the Firefly crash which ended up in a field to the south, although again no bystanders hurt, and the crash involving the P-38 which was only just inside the southern airfield boundary. In all these cases bystanders were not involved but this I feel was simply down to luck. I was there inside the airfield for all of these accidents, not something I would recommend for anyone to view.

So yes I can see why the CAA have enforced these safety measures after what happened at Shoreham, some may not like it but it's a fact of life now. If anyone is stupid enough to get into these naughty fields I sincerely hope that they will be identified and prosecuted, and if it does curtail the show then I hope the IWM will sue them for loss of revenue and take then to the cleaners.

Stuart

King Cobra
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by King Cobra »

broadstairs wrote:I have been following this thread for a while now. I am amazed at some of the attitudes being propounded here, totally unbelievable. I feel that there are almost bound to be some folks who will be stupid enough to try to bypass these restrictions.

Sad it may be that these restrictions have been brought in but in some ways I feel people have been lucky not to have been caught out in an accident in the past, I remember the ME109 leaping over the M11 and ending up in the field the other side although no fire in that case, then there was the Firefly crash which ended up in a field to the south, although again no bystanders hurt, and the crash involving the P-38 which was only just inside the southern airfield boundary. In all these cases bystanders were not involved but this I feel was simply down to luck. I was there inside the airfield for all of these accidents, not something I would recommend for anyone to view.

So yes I can see why the CAA have enforced these safety measures after what happened at Shoreham, some may not like it but it's a fact of life now. If anyone is stupid enough to get into these naughty fields I sincerely hope that they will be identified and prosecuted, and if it does curtail the show then I hope the IWM will sue them for loss of revenue and take then to the cleaners.

Stuart


Be careful on that drive to Duxford. You'll be at a greater risk than anyone in the naughty field ever was.

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

King Cobra wrote:Be careful on that drive to Duxford. You'll be at a greater risk than anyone in the naughty field ever was.


:grin: :clap: Indeed.

There will be no problem at all with people using the field this weekend, for the simple fact that there's precious little in the display worth the hassle to see.

I know of no-one who I watch shows with - even field regulars - who plans to bother, even with the school, for this show.

Apathy at poor line-ups might kill off the naughty field far quicker than a few bits of DIY fence will.

broadstairs
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by broadstairs »

OK but are you really saying that if it were the best show in the world this year it would be worth going to the naughty field just to get a photo and ignore the likelihood of at least interrupting the show and possibly cancelling it altogether. If so this is not only incredibly stupid but also totally selfish.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Pen Pusher »

King Cobra wrote:Be careful on that drive to Duxford. You'll be at a greater risk than anyone in the naughty field ever was.


As I know every time I go up and down the A14 on my motorbike. Having lights on and wearing a high-viz vest seems to make you invisible to car drivers/white van man/lorries.

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King Cobra
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by King Cobra »

Pen Pusher wrote:
King Cobra wrote:Be careful on that drive to Duxford. You'll be at a greater risk than anyone in the naughty field ever was.


As I know every time I go up and down the A14 on my motorbike. Having lights on and wearing a high-viz vest seems to make you invisible to car drivers/white van man/lorries.

Brian


Don't you just. All vehicle drivers should be made to go out on two wheels to see what it's like. Maybe then they'd take a bit more notice of bikers and cyclists.

cg_341
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by cg_341 »

Getting off the subject, but to point out that wearing a high vis and having lights on doesn't make it safe to weave through traffic at well north of a tonne, as I experienced yesterday on the M40 - justice was eventually served as some time later I passed said biker, who was at least 40, on the hard shoulder, with one of CMPG's lovely new unmarked 335d X-Drives behind it! :lmao:

jon93
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by jon93 »

If anyone ever wanted to see the reason why the hobby struggles to attract people then this topic is a good place to start.

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tc2324
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by tc2324 »

Irishaernut wrote:And now the green area is the area with no people in it , and they can claim a doubling of safe zone or whatever they call it.
Image


I usually don`t reply to these threads and would rather sit back laughing or having a cringe, depending on what`s been written.

However, after seeing this map and assuming it`s correct, I can`t help but feel people/spotters will be forced to be `funnelled` into choke points in the fields at either end of the runway where an accident could be more likely.

I would have thought that `speading people out` over a wider area would limit the number of ground deaths in the event of an accident?

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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

A good point.

You will never stop people watching outside. And shows have made that a lot more attractive by the insistence at many events of all-ticket shows, and in Duxford's case, charging for parking. Chuck in the CAA's "safety" changes taking display lines further from the crowd and soaring ticket prices, and it's no surprise more people will try to watch a show for nothing.

Why take a £30+ gamble on getting soaked, to watch a show taking place a mile or more away, 1000ft up?

Airshows, and the CAA should be doing more to make being inside the best and most dynamic place to watch the show. It's been totally safe inside for 60+ years, yet in recent years, for no reason, the customer experience inside, especially at Duxford, has got worse and worse.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Pen Pusher »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Why take a £30+ gamble on getting soaked, to watch a show taking place a mile or more away, 1000ft up?


At least inside Duxford there are plenty of hangars to shelter in should it rain. :biggrin:

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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by FlyingMachinesTV »

I think UKAR might need some more bandwidth on their servers after the weekend!

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andygolfer
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by andygolfer »

Pen Pusher wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Why take a £30+ gamble on getting soaked, to watch a show taking place a mile or more away, 1000ft up?


At least inside Duxford there are plenty of hangars to shelter in should it rain. :biggrin:

Brian


....and plenty to look at. And if you're a FoD you can shelter in their members' tent with a cup of tea -that's always a nice touch from them biscuits as well!
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phreakf4
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by phreakf4 »

Dan O'Hagan wrote: Why take a £30 gamble on getting soaked watching a show a mile away and 1000 feet up?"


I don't know which show Dan is intending not to watch, but I will be at Duxford on Sunday watching a show 150 to 230 metres away and between 100 and 300 feet up (mostly) unless the "better photographers" wreck it for the paying audience....Oh, and given that it's Britain in the Spring, I'll be taking waterproofs and a hat.

I shall also be trawling the internet on Saturday (can't drive for a while due to recent surgery so a friend is driving my car there on Sunday, the only day he is available, else I would be there both days) hoping not to see the headline "Plane Spotters Stop Air Display!".....
nothing is confirmed at a show until its u/c hits the tarmac or it is running in for its display.....

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Irishaernut
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Irishaernut »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
There will be no problem at all with people using the field this weekend, for the simple fact that there's precious little in the display worth the hassle to see.

I know of no-one who I watch shows with - even field regulars - who plans to bother, even with the school, for this show.

Apathy at poor line-ups might kill off the naughty field far quicker than a few bits of DIY fence will.


WOW , how can you call yourself and enthusiast ?? I am delighted to see any of these aircraft flying.
At any height or distance, even to get to look around duxford is filling me with excitement.

You and many in the uk are STILL spoilt with a magnificent airshow scene and you constantly complain about ever minute aspect.

And if all airshows were gotten rid of , you would be delighted , at least you'd be right as that seems more important than enjoying aircraft simply flying anywhere near you.

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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

phreakf4 wrote:I shall also be trawling the internet on Saturday hoping not to see the headline "Plane Spotters Stop Air Display!".....

The point some people are making is that regardless of how well they manage to police the field and Grange Road, there are numerous other vantage points around Duxford that are utilised by locals. The fields on both sides of the road from the school to the roundabout are occupied by families on a show day. There's a field to the north west that is also populated on airshow days. The road closures do nothing to address these areas, and they're just as likely to cause a halt to proceedings as a single person on Grange Road. These are families with children, sat on chairs and with picnic blankets, sometimes playing ball games etc. Not really "plane spotters", or "better photographers", just locals from the village.
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phreakf4
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by phreakf4 »

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
phreakf4 wrote:I shall also be trawling the internet on Saturday hoping not to see the headline "Plane Spotters Stop Air Display!".....

The point some people are making is that regardless of how well they manage to police the field and Grange Road, there are numerous other vantage points around Duxford that are utilised by locals. The fields on both sides of the road from the school to the roundabout are occupied by families on a show day. There's a field to the north west that is also populated on airshow days. The road closures do nothing to address these areas, and they're just as likely to cause a halt to proceedings as a single person on Grange Road. These are families with children, sat on chairs and with picnic blankets, sometimes playing ball games etc. Not really "plane spotters", or "better photographers", just locals from the village.


Probably correct, but do you really think that the Mail, Mirror etc, will bother to make that distinction? The point I was making is that "plane spotters" already have a poor public image and this would only serve to reinforce that negative opinion. If we (and yes, I do consider myself an enthusiast, as said before of about 60 years' standing) wish to garner public support then following the new (in some cases nonsensical) rules can not harm our cause. Deliberately flouting the rules will do the exact opposite.
nothing is confirmed at a show until its u/c hits the tarmac or it is running in for its display.....

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The Baron
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by The Baron »

Irishaernut wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
There will be no problem at all with people using the field this weekend, for the simple fact that there's precious little in the display worth the hassle to see.

I know of no-one who I watch shows with - even field regulars - who plans to bother, even with the school, for this show.

Apathy at poor line-ups might kill off the naughty field far quicker than a few bits of DIY fence will.


WOW , how can you call yourself and enthusiast ?? I am delighted to see any of these aircraft flying.
At any height or distance, even to get to look around duxford is filling me with excitement.

You and many in the uk are STILL spoilt with a magnificent airshow scene and you constantly complain about ever minute aspect.

And if all airshows were gotten rid of , you would be delighted , at least you'd be right as that seems more important than enjoying aircraft simply flying anywhere near you.


Yes, we are very lucky in this country to have such a diverse airshow scene.
So, on that note why does Duxford have another 'samey' line up? There are plenty of other aircraft that could and should get a look in at Duxford. Sure it makes good business sense for them but with uninteresting line ups how soon will people get bored with half a days manic flying at ridiculous distances with most of the crowd line blocked by parked aircraft and get charged £35(ish) plus parking for the pleasure?
The only things that even vaguely excite me are the KC-135 (can see that just up the road at Mildenhall for the time being) and the 'Zero', which I'm guessing is probably the French Harvard/Zero mock up. Which I saw at Ferté. Therefore, for me, it's a mediocre, lazy line up and shan't be attending.
Just my opinion, mind...
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SimonD
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by SimonD »

jon93 wrote:If anyone ever wanted to see the reason why the hobby struggles to attract people then this topic is a good place to start.


Can I just say I agree! As a lurker more than a poster on this forum I'm sometimes astounded by some of the aggressive posts. I mean, seriously, it's an airshow. If you want to go, then go, if you don't, stay at home. I would say though that if some fields, footpaths or whatever have been closed then it would seem a bit silly to try and go into them. If people are in other fields that haven't been closed then I guess it's ok to be there.

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Pen Pusher
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Re: Grange Rd Duxford fences and closure notice - pics attac

Post by Pen Pusher »

The Baron wrote:So, on that note why does Duxford have another 'samey' line up?


Unlike RIAT of course with its samey line up of F-16s/Typhoons/Tornadoes/Hercules etc, etc. :biggrin:

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