Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Duxford: Why did you stay away?

General cost of admission
12
10%
Additional parking charge
4
3%
Advance ticketing only
19
16%
Variety of aircraft listed to display
11
9%
New CAA regulations
26
22%
Quality of photographic opportunities
19
16%
Experience of past events
5
4%
Safety concerns post-Shoreham
0
No votes
Other (state)
21
18%
 
Total votes : 117

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Thoughtful_Flyer on Tue 31 May 2016, 3:32 pm

Tim N wrote:I'm not sure how many more times this has to be spelled out, the greatly reduced numbers were directly caused by the advance ticket policy.


Do you have any hard evidence to back up what you have "spelled out"?

You may be right, but as I have said previously I do not think it is quite as simple as you and others are assuming. I am happy to accept the policy contributed to the apparent big drop in numbers but I an far from convinced it is the whole explanation.
Thoughtful_Flyer

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby davidjones533 on Tue 31 May 2016, 3:34 pm

Tim N wrote:I'm not sure how many more times this has to be spelled out, the greatly reduced numbers were directly caused by the advance ticket policy. Aside from that and the car park charge, I had a very enjoyable day out.


Really? It was advanced ticket only for the Duxford shows last year and if I remember correctly every one sold out. What's changed? At least this year you could buy them up to the evening before, whereas last year they had to be sent through the post.

I think in reality there's a range of different reasons why particular groups of people didn't come, culminating in a much quieter Duxford overall. For some - particularly families - it was simply too expensive; others didn't feel the pull of a particular theme or highlight; others didn't want to gamble on the weather; while more still were put off by display lines or airshow safety in general. I think blaming it entirely on one facet you happen to have a problem with is too simplistic.
User avatar
davidjones533

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Skymonster on Tue 31 May 2016, 6:44 pm

yannyfoxx wrote:At the risk of summoning the fury of the forum and particularly the members who have obviously voted on this poll, I'd like to suggest that another reason why people stay away from Duxford is because they might run into Dan Hagen and co, who appear to be the most miserable 'enthusiasts' imaginable, clearly lacking any passion or interest in what these aircraft and the people who flew them really represent.

Despite the changes, Duxford managed to still put on an evocative display using a range of imaginative resources that wasn't limited to just the aircraft, enhancing people's understanding of air conflict from the American perspective. It's a museum and this is their remit surely. I'm pretty certain that the IWM won't be concerned with the 1000 images you got as a result of you machine-gunning the underside of MH434 as it passed at a slightly more sedate pace than you are used to. I'm guessing you already have one or two decent pictures of MH434, Miss Velma et al so what damage is really being done.


Glad you enjoyed it... I wouldn't have. Maybe those of us who, in your opinion are "clearly lacking any passion or interest", might have heard it all before and attend air shows for a different reason?

Maybe the IWM "won't be concerned with the 1000 images" some of us might have got, but unlike the general public who might want to chose between Duxford and a theme park, or the seaside, and might visit Duxford once in a blue moon, aviation photographers are potentially very sticky members of the audience who often come back time and time again, and keep paying to do so - as long as they feel they are being treated fairly and are getting reasonable value for money.

I wish Duxford well - if the IWM feels that it can do without enthusiasts attending it's air shows, so be it. Time will tell - later this year we'll have a much better feeling for whether they were right, or completely wrong. Right now, I can't help feeling they're killing the goose that lays the regular eggs...
Skymonster

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby WG655 on Tue 31 May 2016, 6:56 pm

Skymonster wrote:
yannyfoxx wrote:At the risk of summoning the fury of the forum and particularly the members who have obviously voted on this poll, I'd like to suggest that another reason why people stay away from Duxford is because they might run into Dan Hagen and co, who appear to be the most miserable 'enthusiasts' imaginable, clearly lacking any passion or interest in what these aircraft and the people who flew them really represent.

Despite the changes, Duxford managed to still put on an evocative display using a range of imaginative resources that wasn't limited to just the aircraft, enhancing people's understanding of air conflict from the American perspective. It's a museum and this is their remit surely. I'm pretty certain that the IWM won't be concerned with the 1000 images you got as a result of you machine-gunning the underside of MH434 as it passed at a slightly more sedate pace than you are used to. I'm guessing you already have one or two decent pictures of MH434, Miss Velma et al so what damage is really being done.


Glad you enjoyed it... I wouldn't have. Maybe those of us who, in your opinion are "clearly lacking any passion or interest", might have heard it all before and attend air shows for a different reason?

Maybe the IWM "won't be concerned with the 1000 images" some of us might have got, but unlike the general public who might want to chose between Duxford and a theme park, or the seaside, and might visit Duxford once in a blue moon, aviation photographers are potentially very sticky members of the audience who often come back time and time again, and keep paying to do so - as long as they feel they are being treated fairly and are getting reasonable value for money.

I wish Duxford well - if the IWM feels that it can do without enthusiasts attending it's air shows, so be it. Time will tell - later this year we'll have a much better feeling for whether they were right, or completely wrong. Right now, I can't help feeling they're killing the goose that lays the regular eggs...


Completely agree with this. :up: The huge swathes of missing attendees this weekend weren't just caused by enthusiasts and their lenses, mark my words. They can tell themselves they're doing the right thing however at this rate things will come back to bite them. It's all very well tarnishing enthusiasts with the same brush, but many of us have been to enough shows in our time to know what works and what doesn't - if Duxford want to disregard that advice of ours then it is a bitter shame as it could entice a lot of people back with hard, but necessary, changes.

Yes, £5 by itself is not a great deal of money, but it sticks with families to have to pay simply to park their car on a family day out, particularly when it was free before. In some way, the car parking charge inadvertently discriminates against the family audience - I really can't imagine many families would want to do the last part of the journey on public transport, particularly on a tiring day with young children and lots of baggage. Whilst Duxford may see themselves as 'cheap' compared to other family days out, remember that most family days out (football match, concert, zoo) are far less weather dependent than airshows and when money is tight it is an unnecessary extravagance to put £100+ down the drain in the case of miserable weather.

Whilst the personal attacks on Dan and others are unnecessary, yannyfoxx, I'd have been as vocal as you about the strength of Duxford airshows had we been having this discussion two or three years ago - unfortunately, like many others, my interest in the venue has been wrecked by a number of various issues which IWM have now got to resolve to regain the love lost.
User avatar
WG655
UKAR Staff

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 31 May 2016, 8:16 pm

Over a hundred votes in the poll now. That's £3,000+ missed revenue for IWM, just from this small sample on UKAR.

The enthusiast may be only a proportion of the overall crowd at an airshow, but they're the ones most likely to come back again, and again.

Alienate, irritate and refuse to listen to us at your peril.

The questionnaire sent out to ticket purchasers is certainly a step in the right direction. Perhaps a round-table between enthusiasts and the IWM might be an option further down the line too?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby hmeasures on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 12:39 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Over a hundred votes in the poll now. That's £3,000+ missed revenue for IWM, just from this small sample on UKAR.


Over 100 votes and the 2 top choices (accounting for 39% of the overall vote at the time of writing) are things that are completely out of Duxford's control, being the new CAA regs and photo opportunities (which are inherently tied with the new regs and physical location of Duxford itself, which means shooting into the sun). Jointly in second place is the 'other' category which is a bit hit and miss as although some have given genuine reasons such as a combination of the poll choices, some have stated that being at work, and the show clashing with other events is why they chose not to go. Personally I couldn't make the display on Sunday as I went to a Kasabian gig, so I voted other. Must try harder IWM. 0/10.

Only now in 3rd (4th) place is something IWM has 'control' over at advance ticketing (which if rumours are anything to go by then it was Cambridgeshire Police who wanted it for traffic management)...

It is also worth pondering that are all 106 voters people that would have gone inside, or who now did not go to the naughty field due to the new regs and security?
Last edited by hmeasures on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hmeasures

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby C24 on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 6:50 am

This thread has been both amusing and informative for me. A little heated at times but everyone, in my opinion, has an equal entitlement to post an few thoughts.
Useful to consider the viewpoint of aircraft enthusiasts who live miles from any airshow venue(s). I miss the Harriers, Tornados, Red Arrows (Canberras, Valiants) that used to fly around my various homes in the UK.
Aside from the airshows, yannyfoxx's use of the word " whinging " has prompted me to research the correct spelling of this word derived from " whinge ". The question was/is, should there be an " e " before the " ing " ?

Google has come up Trumps (a well known American) with

whinge
wɪn(d)ʒ/
BRITISHinformal
verb
gerund or present participle: whinging
complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way.
"stop whingeing and get on with it!"
synonyms: complain, grouse, grouch, grumble, whine, moan, carp, mutter, murmur, whisper;...

Like this thread, there seems to be more than one answer.
:cuppa:
Something for nothing doesn't apply to life. :tumbleweed:
Pontificatingly (sp?) yours. Charlie the Whinger.
C24.

"There is no go round in a glider".

http://www.flickr.com/photos/charlie-two-four/
C24

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby vandal on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 10:19 am

I've read this thread with interest, and in particular the part about the parking charges.

When we had the Leuchars Airshow, for the last 4 or 5 years that the show was on, we had to endure the parking charge if we wanted to park on base. Regardless of whether it was a family with a child / children in buggies, or a Disabled person who needed to use a wheelchair / scooter, we either parked in a designated field then had to get on an old double decker bus - NOT a modern Low Floor one, just a regular run of the mill double decker or pay the £5 to park on base. Myself, and many others voiced our concerns at the time, but the charge was back again the next year.
vandal

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tim N on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 12:45 pm

davidjones533 wrote:
Tim N wrote:I'm not sure how many more times this has to be spelled out, the greatly reduced numbers were directly caused by the advance ticket policy. Aside from that and the car park charge, I had a very enjoyable day out.


Really? It was advanced ticket only for the Duxford shows last year and if I remember correctly every one sold out. What's changed? At least this year you could buy them up to the evening before, whereas last year they had to be sent through the post.

I think in reality there's a range of different reasons why particular groups of people didn't come, culminating in a much quieter Duxford overall. For some - particularly families - it was simply too expensive; others didn't feel the pull of a particular theme or highlight; others didn't want to gamble on the weather; while more still were put off by display lines or airshow safety in general. I think blaming it entirely on one facet you happen to have a problem with is too simplistic.


The only show advance ticket last year was the BoB Anniversary where record crowds were expected due to the pull of the Spitfire flypast. I paid AT THE GATE in May and at Legends.
It's always helpful to do your research before wading in :snack:
Tim N

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby strangelookingalien on Wed 01 Jun 2016, 5:45 pm

Duxford is always overpriced and terribly organised. The fact they kick everyone out well before the car parks have begun to clear is one of the main reasons I rarely go in to watch - a bit of improved traffic management would be a huge improvement.

The Duxford display line has always been distant, and most of the participation lists are enjoyable but un-spectacular. The one amazing thing about Duxford was watching from the tank bank - you really could, occasionally, get close to the action and last September with the Spitfires was an amazing experience in an otherwise unremarkable airshow.

The new CAA guidelines have probably ended the only thing that made going into a Duxford airshow worthwhile.
strangelookingalien

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