Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Duxford: Why did you stay away?

General cost of admission
12
10%
Additional parking charge
4
3%
Advance ticketing only
19
16%
Variety of aircraft listed to display
11
9%
New CAA regulations
26
22%
Quality of photographic opportunities
19
16%
Experience of past events
5
4%
Safety concerns post-Shoreham
0
No votes
Other (state)
21
18%
 
Total votes : 117

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tim N on Sat 28 May 2016, 8:43 pm

SEMAE wrote:I will be missing DX tomorrow due to the new regulations and I have voted as such. This has vastly reduced the photo opportunities and I am sure a vote for the lack of photo opportunities is linked to the new regs.

Martin Eames


True, there are two factors at work here, enthusiasts/photographers are put off by the new regulations and the general public are more being scuppered by the advance ticket buffoonery.
These two factors together are most likely thinning the crowd.
But, there is still Sunday , we shall know more well before this time tomorrow :sweat:
Tim N

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby TKK 140 on Sat 28 May 2016, 8:46 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
TKK 140 wrote:It appears that the poll should have another section. Still going despite the attempts to make EVERYTHING negative.

The poll is clearly not aimed at you then, is it? It's attempting to canvass opinion on which reason(s) people that didn't go today chose not to go.

If the poll was "why don't you use park and ride?", would you complain that those who do use park and ride are being ignored? The question is aimed at those that didn't attend - not those that did. Is it that difficult a concept? :dunno: :dizzy:



It is part of the ongoing we can't get near enough aren't we hard done by campaign. :snack:
TKK 140

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Pat Murphy on Sat 28 May 2016, 8:51 pm

Work for me. Just work or i would have been quite happy to enjoy a day off with the sights, sounds and smells of an airshow. The rules for this year, sadly, appear to be in for the season. Make the most of what we have, which is better than a lot of countries, or vote with your feet and stay away. Your choice.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sat 28 May 2016, 8:54 pm

Or, alternatively, airshow enthusiasts on an airshow forum discussing an airshow industry in turmoil....
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby TKK 140 on Sat 28 May 2016, 8:55 pm

Pat Murphy wrote:Work for me. Just work or i would have been quite happy to enjoy a day off with the sights, sounds and smells of an airshow. The rules for this year, sadly, appear to be in for the season. Make the most of what we have, which is better than a lot of countries, or vote with your feet and stay away. Your choice.


Agree with that thought.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby davidjones533 on Sat 28 May 2016, 8:59 pm

Cambridge Flyer wrote:Advanced Ticketing for me, although cost a very close second!
I only live a few minutes away, and I only know the week before if I can attend.


Tickets were on sale until midnight last night, so this doesn't really make sense
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:02 pm

Pat Murphy wrote:Work for me. Just work or i would have been quite happy to enjoy a day off with the sights, sounds and smells of an airshow. The rules for this year, sadly, appear to be in for the season. Make the most of what we have, which is better than a lot of countries, or vote with your feet and stay away. Your choice.

CAP403 has already been revised after just a handful of shows.

You can roll over and put up with it, or you can make your feelings known, but if everyone (pilots, organisers, venues, customers etc) said these shows so far were the best thing since sliced bread, do you think they'd have entertained the thought of revising the guidelines? Plenty of pilots out there that aren't happy about things - are they all wrong too?
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Screechy on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:12 pm

keithjs wrote:Interesting to see no one (yet) has given the parking charge a vote...how strange after all the ranting and raving the past few months... :dunno: :heyhey:
This poll is so predicable I'll bet someone now does...


It's because we are spoilt for choice on reason not to go to Duxford these days, it's just another one of many reason, just not the headline reason
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tommy on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:15 pm

I've already made my thoughts clear on the issue, several times. Just not enjoyed myself over the past couple of events, so put it up to past experience, but in truth it's a combination of all of the above, really, with each point having various extents in forming part of that conclusion.

One point though, Dan, forgive the pedantry, but I don't think we need the Daily Mail style "YOU" in all capslock in the title? I thought you, like I, disliked the whole dumming-down culture at the moment? I'm sure we're all of a modicum of intelligence on here to be able to read the word without the all-caps to the same effect. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but some might be forgiven for thinking it a little patronising.

Anyway, one thing that is clear, to me at least, is that this isn't just a CAA issue - Duxford have the feel of going wide of the mark they should be on for a few years now. At times, some downright poor traffic management, wildly inconsistent participation lists across weekend shows, the normal unpleasant bun-fight on the crowdline, the ramparts of windbreaks, everything on sale being overpriced, high ticket prices, the additional car parking fee... I've no problem with those who choose to go, and I hope they enjoyed it, but for me, I'm not going to spend money on something that, despite efforts, I just don't enjoy at the moment, which - when you think about the quality of the machines based there, and the vast experience and skill of the pilots who fly them - is a ridiculous state of affairs. On paper, the flying list looks amazing to a warbird fan, but somehow the actual show itself always falls short...
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tim N on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:31 pm

davidjones533 wrote:
Cambridge Flyer wrote:Advanced Ticketing for me, although cost a very close second!
I only live a few minutes away, and I only know the week before if I can attend.


Tickets were on sale until midnight last night, so this doesn't really make sense


To be fair, you won't always be able to rely on tickets being available that late.
I'll be surprised if any Legends tickets are available that late come July.
I hope to attend Legends but I won't risk buying a ticket last minute, I'll do exactly what the organisers want me to do and buy my ticket weeks in advance...........because I love aviation and they know that.
If Tescos took liberties I'd shun them and head to a rival, but these organisers know we love our pastime so much but we'll harrumph and curse and shrug and buy our tickets anyway.
The only benefactors of this policy are the IWM themselves, with no thought for the customer being inconvenienced .
Someone pointed out the attraction for the organiser of having the advance ticket money in the bank against the possibility of a weather washout but I can't think where Duxford have been that affected by the weather over the years, Old Warden yes, they had virtually a season wiped out by rubbish weather a couple of years ago and besides they being a small venue can justify their advance ticket policy more.
At least last September Duxford sent out paper tickets as do Biggin Hill with a car pass .
I have to get someone else to print my tickets now.
I accept that the IWM said you can show the ticket on a phone or tablet but this is not viable with the car pass .
I think this policy will be dropped before the CAA relent on their misguided new regulations.
Last edited by Tim N on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby davidjones533 on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:37 pm

Tim N wrote:
davidjones533 wrote:
Cambridge Flyer wrote:Advanced Ticketing for me, although cost a very close second!
I only live a few minutes away, and I only know the week before if I can attend.


Tickets were on sale until midnight last night, so this doesn't really make sense


To be fair, you won't always be able to rely on tickets being available that late.
I'll be surprised if any Legends tickets are available that late come July.


But this poll is about this show. And if Legends is sold out in advance, then not too many people have actually given it a miss.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tim N on Sat 28 May 2016, 9:54 pm

So by my reckoning, a standard Duxford show, that is one without an obvious 'star' or anniversary, will from now on be populated by non photographer enthusiasts.
The 'Joe public' crowd who are often apt to attending these shows on a whim will drift away put off by buying family tickets months in advance in case something crops up last minute.
As I said elsewhere, I have often gained several passengers on the morning of the show who weren't certain they were able to go until the 11th hour , that now couldn't happen.
Duxford have a choice, move heaven and earth each show to produce a headline act , therefore guaranteeing their advance ticket sell out or accept dwindling crowds .
Tim N

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby bhjordan on Sat 28 May 2016, 10:56 pm

For me, the overall cost for myself and my 9yr old son to visit Duxford kept us away this weekend.

Two years ago kids tickets (over 5yrs old) were free, last year they were £9, this year £19.... So for myself and my son to attend one day this weekend, park the car and do the flightline walk the day would now be pushing towards £80 (plus fuel), that's without a programme, or any drinks/ice cream etc...

I know the additional CAA fees etc have to come from somewhere, and maintaining/insuring the warbirds we all love costs an absolute arm and a leg, but it now feels like Duxford see us as a cash cow rather than valued repeat visitors.

Although you don't get the quantity or variety of aircraft we've booked to go to the Shuttleworth Navy Day show next weekend (£23 for both of us), and we've also booked to go to RIAT on the Saturday (£39 for both of us) so a grand total of £62 for both of us for two days out, for less than the cost of a single visit to Duxford.... a no brainer really in our position
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby tankbuster on Sat 28 May 2016, 11:23 pm

Weather looks good, wouldn't mind going tomorrow but don't have a ticket. Advance ticketing may work at RIAT where it is sold out but here the organisers are just throwing away potential gate money.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Maisie on Sun 29 May 2016, 12:28 am

Cost & distance is my main reason, but to throw in shooting into the sun, new reg's, a front line (when I've been before) full of grumpy, BO ridden "I'm going to leave my chair here and feck off for 4 hours" type men & families, does nothing for me.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby The Baron on Sun 29 May 2016, 4:34 am

Pretty much all the reasons in truth. It's expensive, and with that the flying programme is short. The extra car park charge is ridiculous. The line up was dull and uninteresting. The new CAA rules, well least said the better, and past experiences when it comes to good photo opportunities. It's just not good enough for me anymore.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby C24 on Sun 29 May 2016, 5:03 am

I could have re-organised a major gardening project to allow time this w/end but being "forced" to go into the airfield by the field closures was the deciding factor.
So one ticket income lost to the IWM.

Death or injury by display aircraft doesn't concern me as there seems to be more likelihood of similar by motor vehicle.
IWM's costing policy makes a visit inside less appealing, too many additions.
I hope that they continue if only that children get to experience some of the fun experienced by me over several years.
Reflecting on my first visit to Old Warden a few weeks ago. Although it wasn't unpleasant, it too was not really my cup of tea, more a family day out. Not an opportunity to take photos.
Probably no more visits to Duxford airshows is the likely outcome.
:tumbleweed:
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby davidjones533 on Sun 29 May 2016, 6:28 am

bhjordan wrote:For me, the overall cost for myself and my 9yr old son to visit Duxford kept us away this weekend.

Two years ago kids tickets (over 5yrs old) were free, last year they were £9, this year £19.... So for myself and my son to attend one day this weekend, park the car and do the flightline walk the day would now be pushing towards £80 (plus fuel), that's without a programme, or any drinks/ice cream etc...

I know the additional CAA fees etc have to come from somewhere, and maintaining/insuring the warbirds we all love costs an absolute arm and a leg, but it now feels like Duxford see us as a cash cow rather than valued repeat visitors.

Although you don't get the quantity or variety of aircraft we've booked to go to the Shuttleworth Navy Day show next weekend (£23 for both of us), and we've also booked to go to RIAT on the Saturday (£39 for both of us) so a grand total of £62 for both of us for two days out, for less than the cost of a single visit to Duxford.... a no brainer really in our position


I think this post really hits the nail on the head. Duxford is only really going to be full if families turn up, as has been the case with the past few shows where they have by far outnumbered enthusiasts. Make it too expensive, and they go elsewhere.

I doubt the line-up has anything to do with it, other than given a choice families are likely to choose the day the Reds display. While yesterday's line-up may not appeal to some, I heard plenty of German, Dutch, French and US accents - a sure sign that there aren't many venues around the Europe that can offer that quality and diversity. While I wouldn't be opposed to a bit more variety, fondly remembering seeing F-16s at Duxford for example, I don't think the public generally worry too much about that. (I heard one lady yesterday asking why the RAF aircraft all had targets under their wings).

I still think my single Adult ticket was reasonable for the entertainment received (remembering it's normally £18 for just the museum), but strongly oppose the parking fee, and they need to more to make it affordable for families.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Trenchard on Sun 29 May 2016, 9:55 am

I voted other, simply as one single heading didn't cover my reasoning for not 'going in'. I was assisting my wife and her friends at Duxford school providing the RAFA stall there, so viewed from the field adjacent to the school. My decision to assist the fund raising and not attend the show was formed from the cost to enter, the extra car parking cost, and the lacklustre line up of aircraft on display. I know some will disagree with my use of lacklustre but for me there was absolutely nothing in the display that I hadn't seen somewhere before.

With regard to crowd numbers its worth noting, having spoken to the organizers at the school, that they were experiencing a much smaller turn out than previous years on the Saturday. Clearly 'inside' wasn't the only place experiencing reduced numbers.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby iainpeden on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:07 am

I went because:
genetically I need a show on the spring bank holiday weekend.
I wanted to see the variety of acts
I wanted to meet up with those "friends" you only ever meet at airshows or model shows
I wanted some fresh air
I have a new lens to play with and wanted some practice before Fairford
I'm a glass half full type of person who is thankful for what we do get rather than moan about what used to be and isn't/can't be any more.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby vtecsilver on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:10 am

Voted Advance Tickets, but decision to not attend was also affected by the cost, separate parking cost, and doubts as to whether I would be able to get any decent photos after the display changes this year.
vtecsilver

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby AMB on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:23 am

The CAA regulations for me did it.

The CAA have put the final nail in the coffin for Duxford as far as I'm concerned. It was going downhill when we lost a lot of warbirds through accidents and sales, together with the loss of some of the best warbird pilots, Ray & Mark Hanna, Hoof Proudfoot and now the retirement by Stephen Grey. There is now little 'new' on the scene and what there is cannot be displayed to full effect. A two-hour car journey plus the increased charges to see the same planes flown further away just didn't make it worthwhile.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:30 am

In my case, I opted for photo opportunities from the poll, but it's a combination of things. The line-up didn't excite, the venue is unpleasant, the photo opportunities aren't great (even on the flightline walk - warbirds parked nose-on are all propellors and engines) and it's very expensive.

The regulations were an unknown, advance tickets I despise and combined, it's a venue that I'm really not fussed about if I don't attend. I don't feel like I've missed out on anything.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Mooshie1956 on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:45 am

I went yesterday so in one respect I can't vote, but will I go again is another question. I've already decided to miss Cosford this year as there display is over the cricket ground this time around. I don't see me attending either the May or September shows in the future unless things change, I will still go to Legends as I want my warbird fix. But not this year as I'm booked for Fairford. Am I glad I went, yes and no, the day for me was ruined by the distance at which the displays were carried out, perhaps pilots need time to adjust otherwise I had an enjoyable day. Had I not gone then I would have been kicking myself for in my own mind I would have missed a great show, no matter what people tell you.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby C24 on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:46 am

Cup half full. :cuppa: yes.

A donation to a library, that get's my vote. The only problem that I foresee is getting access to the site.

Could people offer a view about Hunt's Road on both days please. :tumbleweed:
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