Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Duxford: Why did you stay away?

General cost of admission
12
10%
Additional parking charge
4
3%
Advance ticketing only
19
16%
Variety of aircraft listed to display
11
9%
New CAA regulations
26
22%
Quality of photographic opportunities
19
16%
Experience of past events
5
4%
Safety concerns post-Shoreham
0
No votes
Other (state)
21
18%
 
Total votes : 117

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby AndyXH558 on Sun 29 May 2016, 5:41 pm

for me it was distance. and right now i cant commit to anything with my job. So if i get an advance ticket and work comes in I'm wasting money
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Sun 29 May 2016, 5:52 pm

Mooshie1956 wrote:I went yesterday so in one respect I can't vote, but will I go again is another question. I've already decided to miss Cosford this year as there display is over the cricket ground this time around. I don't see me attending either the May or September shows in the future unless things change, I will still go to Legends as I want my warbird fix. But not this year as I'm booked for Fairford. Am I glad I went, yes and no, the day for me was ruined by the distance at which the displays were carried out, perhaps pilots need time to adjust otherwise I had an enjoyable day. Had I not gone then I would have been kicking myself for in my own mind I would have missed a great show, no matter what people tell you.


How you you come to draw that conclusion Mooshie? the cricket club is under the display area, always has been, but that doesn't mean that the axis parallel to the crowd line has been moved back that far. In fact that's a huge leap of logic! I suspect that Cosford use the 230m line anyway so there'll be no change, although I don't know that for certain.

As for Duxford, someone mentioned it amounts to less than the sum of its parts - I think that's well put. Nothing new in that, nothing to do with new regs, it always has done in my experience. Legends is special enough to get me there, when I can make it, but as spectacular as Legends can be I've always been frustrated by the distance from the crowd. If that's got worse its a shame.

To me, the problem with people going outside was simply of the airshow organiser's own making. If they'd put the show on for the people inside it would have happened far less. I suppose that option has now been removed.

If not for the diary clash with RIAT I would go to Legends this year, but that's not to be.

As for the my response to your little poll, well, its a bit of everything.
its time to kick the tyres and light the fires

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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby wepmob2000 on Sun 29 May 2016, 6:40 pm

I didn't choose to give Duxford a miss, I'd love to have gone but cannot really run to it as I'm saving for RIAT and Tankfest...... I am very much hoping to attend the Duxford show in September :-)
wepmob2000

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Trenchard on Sun 29 May 2016, 7:25 pm

C24 wrote:Could people offer a view about Hunt's Road on both days please. :tumbleweed:


From my perspective of Saturday only - Hunts Lane remained open throughout the day despite the closure order, and was used by a multitude of vehicles including those of the local Constabulary. There were many people parked up in a field half way between the A505 round about and the turn off for the school in the village. Mid afternoon at least 200 people were in the fields adjacent to the school and on the roadside verges. I am aware of no attempt to enforce the closure order as published on Hunts Lane at any point during the day.

HTH
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby The Red Baron on Sun 29 May 2016, 7:34 pm

It seems that, "Quality of photographic opportunities" and "CAA regulations" boil down to the same thing for Duxford.
The Red Baron

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Irishaernut on Sun 29 May 2016, 8:30 pm

Flew from Ireland , went in Friday and Saturday, loved it .
It's simply amazing to see these aircraft fly. End of story.

As for photography yes I can understand that they were sometimes a little far off.
But Duxford is amazing, and I'd fly again.

If you bored of the same old aircraft or want something different.
Only go to one airshow a year like me and live in a country with no military aviation to speak of.
You will soon get the enthusiasm back .
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Irishaernut

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Mooshie1956 on Sun 29 May 2016, 9:07 pm

Wrexham Mackem wrote:
Mooshie1956 wrote:I went yesterday so in one respect I can't vote, but will I go again is another question. I've already decided to miss Cosford this year as there display is over the cricket ground this time around. I don't see me attending either the May or September shows in the future unless things change, I will still go to Legends as I want my warbird fix. But not this year as I'm booked for Fairford. Am I glad I went, yes and no, the day for me was ruined by the distance at which the displays were carried out, perhaps pilots need time to adjust otherwise I had an enjoyable day. Had I not gone then I would have been kicking myself for in my own mind I would have missed a great show, no matter what people tell you.


How you you come to draw that conclusion Mooshie? the cricket club is under the display area, always has been, but that doesn't mean that the axis parallel to the crowd line has been moved back that far. In fact that's a huge leap of logic! I suspect that Cosford use the 230m line anyway so there'll be no change, although I don't know that for certain.



According to the Cosford forum the display will be over the cricket club and with how I felt about Duxford and how far things are away from the crowd, although some think it's not much further out, I'm not prepared to take the chance for the line up on offer. So far we've had two shows and both had the display lines push to far back. If the Cricket club is 1km away then it's going to be like watching Ants climbing up the wall.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:08 pm

But the display has always been 'over the cricket club' in that aircraft fly over it/manoeuvre towards it during their displays. The flying display happens in three dimensions. You seem to have gained the impression the minimum distance from the crowd is 'over the cricket club'.. where've you read that? I suspect you have jumped to an incorrect conclusion. I hope so anyway mate.. :wink:
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby TKK 140 on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:19 pm

Irishaernut wrote:Flew from Ireland , went in Friday and Saturday, loved it .
It's simply amazing to see these aircraft fly. End of story.

As for photography yes I can understand that they were sometimes a little far off.
But Duxford is amazing, and I'd fly again.

If you bored of the same old aircraft or want something different.
Only go to one airshow a year like me and live in a country with no military aviation to speak of.
You will soon get the enthusiasm back .


That is a good point

We go as often as we can and live near to Duxford. We consider we are so lucky to have the depth of historic aeroplanes and a fantastic museum here.

Did you visit any of the airbases? How did that go.
Last edited by TKK 140 on Sun 29 May 2016, 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby WG655 on Sun 29 May 2016, 10:41 pm

Having gone through a few years of attending at least one Duxford show a year from 2009-2014 (also Sep 2015 but only really for the Spitfire sequence), I feel the quality and variety of the lineups has been waning recently. Despite loving vintage aviation, I can honestly say I did not miss the show once over the weekend, nor wish I had chosen to go - in fact, to some extent, I felt relief that I have the money saved for alternative events later on in the season.

As others have commented, for me there was a multitude of reasons why I chose not to attend - I picked the advance ticketing as, given the bog-standard lineup, it'd have only been a decision made on the morning to have a nice day out in warm weather with familiar aircraft - with nothing compelling me to attend - a financial risk I see unnecessary to take. The "Zero" was about the only item listed that I have yet to see, and I didn't feel it was worth spending almost two hours travelling each way to see a modded Harvard. Duxford clearly have no care for their customers any more and the reflection in the crowdlines shows that it cannot just be die-hard enthusiasts feeling that they've been taken for a ride. The unpleasant, unfriendly crowdline with loud, rude individuals who take up huge amounts of space for themselves was the final nail in the coffin for me, as Duxford on airshow days is rarely the best location for photography.

Despite its own CAA-induced flaws, OW is now the superior venue for me - if this thread is anything to go by, Duxford need to do an awful lot darn quickly to attract faithful customers like ourselves back rather than simply milking us of cash and being surprised at their resultant crappy attendances.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tim N on Mon 30 May 2016, 12:06 am

At Duxford today I was pondering the new car parking charges motives.
Are the motorists alone taking on the financial burden of the CAA fee increases ?
Or are we returning to the car hating dark days of the early noughties ?
The day cars are no longer welcomed at airshows is the day I stop going to airshows.
I appreciate that many people have no choice but to use public transport to a show but in the event my car was unavailable I'd either rent one or give the show a miss.
Tim N

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby C24 on Mon 30 May 2016, 3:29 pm

Good evening Trenchard. Thank you for the info. I appreciate you taking the time.

Enjoy the Grobs. :smile:
C :cuppa:
C24.

"There is no go round in a glider".

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Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Irishaernut on Mon 30 May 2016, 6:12 pm

TKK 140 wrote:
Irishaernut wrote:Flew from Ireland , went in Friday and Saturday, loved it .
It's simply amazing to see these aircraft fly. End of story.

As for photography yes I can understand that they were sometimes a little far off.
But Duxford is amazing, and I'd fly again.

If you bored of the same old aircraft or want something different.
Only go to one airshow a year like me and live in a country with no military aviation to speak of.
You will soon get the enthusiasm back .


That is a good point

We go as often as we can and live near to Duxford. We consider we are so lucky to have the depth of historic aeroplanes and a fantastic museum here.



Did you visit any of the airbases? How did that go.



Thanks it is a fantastic museam and a privilege to visit , there really isn't anything approaching an air museam in the whole of Ireland . ( there's an air Corp one but you'd have to ask nicely to get in) and the only one I've heard of is in Limerick and it has only 6/7 aircraft.

So even one hangar has me salivating let along what Duxford has.
Imagine how disgusted I was when saw grown men throw their hands up in disgust because a 70 year old national treasure like a spitfire was a little level instead of topside, and perhaps further away.
Me and my friends laughed and just watched enthralled.

My friend asked why and my reply was that
"these guys are photography enthusiasts and the aircraft don't matter a lot unless they are new or painted different, and that they have been here every year at every show so there's nothing new to see, and they go to lots of shows and all stand in more or less the same spots taking the same shots (really good ones) give or take the type of equipment used and photoshop skills.
But because they do this all the time , these historic aircraft are just objects to photograph, not exciting pieces of hist...... ( then the c-47's came into land and I never finished my sentence)"


A quick trip to milldenhall and lakenheath meant we got to see an American airbase for the first time which was impressive.
No flying but I will be back . I am thinking of RIAT. As I have never been .

Duxford 2012,2016 and leuchars 2004,5,13?(last one) We're my only shows I've ever been at.

Thanks tkk 140
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Irishaernut

Re: Poll: Reasons why YOU chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby wepmob2000 on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:50 am

Irishaernut wrote:
TKK 140 wrote:
Irishaernut wrote:Flew from Ireland , went in Friday and Saturday, loved it .
It's simply amazing to see these aircraft fly. End of story.

As for photography yes I can understand that they were sometimes a little far off.
But Duxford is amazing, and I'd fly again.

If you bored of the same old aircraft or want something different.
Only go to one airshow a year like me and live in a country with no military aviation to speak of.
You will soon get the enthusiasm back .


That is a good point

We go as often as we can and live near to Duxford. We consider we are so lucky to have the depth of historic aeroplanes and a fantastic museum here.



Did you visit any of the airbases? How did that go.



Thanks it is a fantastic museam and a privilege to visit , there really isn't anything approaching an air museam in the whole of Ireland . ( there's an air Corp one but you'd have to ask nicely to get in) and the only one I've heard of is in Limerick and it has only 6/7 aircraft.

So even one hangar has me salivating let along what Duxford has.
Imagine how disgusted I was when saw grown men throw their hands up in disgust because a 70 year old national treasure like a spitfire was a little level instead of topside, and perhaps further away.
Me and my friends laughed and just watched enthralled.

My friend asked why and my reply was that
"these guys are photography enthusiasts and the aircraft don't matter a lot unless they are new or painted different, and that they have been here every year at every show so there's nothing new to see, and they go to lots of shows and all stand in more or less the same spots taking the same shots (really good ones) give or take the type of equipment used and photoshop skills.
But because they do this all the time , these historic aircraft are just objects to photograph, not exciting pieces of hist...... ( then the c-47's came into land and I never finished my sentence)"


A quick trip to milldenhall and lakenheath meant we got to see an American airbase for the first time which was impressive.
No flying but I will be back . I am thinking of RIAT. As I have never been .

Duxford 2012,2016 and leuchars 2004,5,13?(last one) We're my only shows I've ever been at.

Thanks tkk 140


Totally agree with that, and I can understand where you're coming from. While I live in the UK, its been slim pickings for me aviation-wise for a good few years now due to irksome personal circumstances..... I wasn't jaded when I could get to 2-3 really good shows a year, but make that 1 good show in the last 3 years and my attitude to some of the complaints I hear is 'so bloody what', just be glad you can attend so many good shows each year, be thankful for what you have, and be thankful there are any airshows at all after the disgusting media manufactured hysteria we saw last year. If the display organisers choose to play it safe for a year or two until the pathetic hysteria dies down.... good, I'd rather have a sedate show than no show. Some people who are complaining should just try only attending the Sunderland airshow for the next three years, which is usually dodge the drunken chav trying to steal your camera whilst looking at displays using Holland as the crowdline, then moan about Duxford on your return.........
wepmob2000

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Irishaernut on Tue 31 May 2016, 9:43 am

Yes this attitude is the exemplary definition of

'Familiarity breeds contempt '


Like a fat kid complaining because Mc Donald's always has the same food, while a Hungry kid watches through the window. :lol:
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Irishaernut

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Skymonster on Tue 31 May 2016, 9:50 am

Sorry, but I go to take photographs. I won't pay good money in advance, only to find the weather is poor. I accept that venues need to limit capacity and maybe even mitigate against weather putting casual/undecided attendees off, and maybe for a section of the airshow-going community the advance ticket policy is acceptable - or at least a cross worth bearing. But for me it isn't, so my last Duxford Air Show was last year, and things won't change for me until the policy is reversed.

Talking with more than one of the big retailers, both felt the lack of attendance hurt them - one at least will be formally making their position clear in writing and may chose not to attend in future if the situation does not change. If Duxford can't get people through the gate, then it seems that the retailers may decide to stay away too, which will further reduce takings for the IWM. Both felt that with an attendance of around 8,000 on Saturday, it was insane and damaging not to take money from people on the gate - its interesting to note that the IWM Facebook page suggested there were few tickets left in the run up to the event (encouraging people to but) and yet attendance seems to have been fairly dismal.
Skymonster

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby yannyfoxx on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:42 am

At the risk of summoning the fury of the forum and particularly the members who have obviously voted on this poll, I'd like to suggest that another reason why people stay away from Duxford is because they might run into Dan Hagen and co, who appear to be the most miserable 'enthusiasts' imaginable, clearly lacking any passion or interest in what these aircraft and the people who flew them really represent.

Despite the changes, Duxford managed to still put on an evocative display using a range of imaginative resources that wasn't limited to just the aircraft, enhancing people's understanding of air conflict from the American perspective. It's a museum and this is their remit surely. I'm pretty certain that the IWM won't be concerned with the 1000 images you got as a result of you machine-gunning the underside of MH434 as it passed at a slightly more sedate pace than you are used to. I'm guessing you already have one or two decent pictures of MH434, Miss Velma et al so what damage is really being done.

Whilst the show WAS different to previous ones, those who attended still witnessed incredibly rare machines being flown around an incredibly evocative airfield against a back drop of interesting and at times moving interviews, visuals and music. I'm sure the real enthusiasts appreciated this for what it was. Perhaps the new rules governing air displays will mean we'll lose those who only attend to achieve the perfect photo. I'm fine with that as this makes more room on the flight line for people with a real appreciation for what these aircraft represent. I don't know how much longer seventy-five year old aircraft can really be operated for, but I'm certain that we should appreciate what we have got, in what ever form it is represented. I hope I can do this at Duxford in the future without the incessant whinging that seems to follow every show.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby jingernut on Tue 31 May 2016, 11:57 am

yannyfoxx wrote:At the risk of summoning the fury of the forum and particularly the members who have obviously voted on this poll, I'd like to suggest that another reason why people stay away from Duxford is because they might run into Dan Hagen and co, who appear to be the most miserable 'enthusiasts' imaginable, clearly lacking any passion or interest in what these aircraft and the people who flew them really represent.

Despite the changes, Duxford managed to still put on an evocative display using a range of imaginative resources that wasn't limited to just the aircraft, enhancing people's understanding of air conflict from the American perspective. It's a museum and this is their remit surely. I'm pretty certain that the IWM won't be concerned with the 1000 images you got as a result of you machine-gunning the underside of MH434 as it passed at a slightly more sedate pace than you are used to. I'm guessing you already have one or two decent pictures of MH434, Miss Velma et al so what damage is really being done.

Whilst the show WAS different to previous ones, those who attended still witnessed incredibly rare machines being flown around an incredibly evocative airfield against a back drop of interesting and at times moving interviews, visuals and music. I'm sure the real enthusiasts appreciated this for what it was. Perhaps the new rules governing air displays will mean we'll lose those who only attend to achieve the perfect photo. I'm fine with that as this makes more room on the flight line for people with a real appreciation for what these aircraft represent. I don't know how much longer seventy-five year old aircraft can really be operated for, but I'm certain that we should appreciate what we have got, in what ever form it is represented. I hope I can do this at Duxford in the future without the incessant whinging that seems to follow every show.



:clap: :clap: :clap:

Well said.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Thoughtful_Flyer on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:21 pm

yannyfoxx wrote:At the risk of summoning the fury of the forum and particularly the members who have obviously voted on this poll, I'd like to suggest that another reason why people stay away from Duxford is because they might run into Dan Hagen and co, who appear to be the most miserable 'enthusiasts' imaginable, clearly lacking any passion or interest in what these aircraft and the people who flew them really represent.

Despite the changes, Duxford managed to still put on an evocative display using a range of imaginative resources that wasn't limited to just the aircraft, enhancing people's understanding of air conflict from the American perspective. It's a museum and this is their remit surely. I'm pretty certain that the IWM won't be concerned with the 1000 images you got as a result of you machine-gunning the underside of MH434 as it passed at a slightly more sedate pace than you are used to. I'm guessing you already have one or two decent pictures of MH434, Miss Velma et al so what damage is really being done.

Whilst the show WAS different to previous ones, those who attended still witnessed incredibly rare machines being flown around an incredibly evocative airfield against a back drop of interesting and at times moving interviews, visuals and music. I'm sure the real enthusiasts appreciated this for what it was. Perhaps the new rules governing air displays will mean we'll lose those who only attend to achieve the perfect photo. I'm fine with that as this makes more room on the flight line for people with a real appreciation for what these aircraft represent. I don't know how much longer seventy-five year old aircraft can really be operated for, but I'm certain that we should appreciate what we have got, in what ever form it is represented. I hope I can do this at Duxford in the future without the incessant whinging that seems to follow every show.


Apart from the unnecessary and insulting first paragraph I agree with much of what you say.

However, the fact remains that significant numbers of people DID stay from Duxford this weekend. If that trend continues it will pose a significant threat to the viability of what you and many others clearly enjoyed.

I seen nothing wrong with debating the reasons WHY the visitor numbers were obviously well down. A forum like this is far from representative of an average airshow audience so I am more concerned by some of what I read on Facebook and other social media. Clearly lots of people enjoyed themselves but a significant number did not. To ignore that or dismiss it as ignorance would be stupid.
Thoughtful_Flyer

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:25 pm

Just on the subject of that first paragraph, if you were wanting to avoid "Dan Hagen and co" (who is he anyway?), then Duxford on an airshow day is probably the best place to go. :lol:
"You really are an oafish philistine at times!"
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Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Irishaernut on Tue 31 May 2016, 12:25 pm

Yes well said.

The very people who claim to be the most knowledgable and dedicated enthusiasts seem from where I stand after 2 years on this forum seem to hate aircraft and airshows.

And only complain which a hope they are proved right if all goes wrong.
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Irishaernut

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Screechy on Tue 31 May 2016, 1:24 pm

Irishaernut wrote:The very people who claim to be the most knowledgable and dedicated enthusiasts seem from where I stand after 2 years on this forum seem to hate aircraft and airshows


We obviously don't hate aircraft and airshows be we do take exception to being nannied and being milked dry of cash at the same time repeatedly, we'll add £6 quid for this, we'll add on £6 quid for that, it all adds up and then it reaches a point where it's gone too far. If it can be backed up with content then we'll swallow it, if not we'll stay away. As far as 2016 is concerned Duxford will not see me and i'm a FOD member to boot!
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Screechy

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Normannis on Tue 31 May 2016, 2:17 pm

Yannyfox I'm very glad you enjoyed the show and I hope you are able to continue the show in the future.If that turns out to be the case great but as as a photographer the event was very poor so as Sam Goldwyn didn't say include me out!
The problem is this,one I think that you underestimate the Non Photographer AIRSHOW attendee in assuming they still enjoyed the show.I think that the lack of attendance and the empty space in the car park as I left suggest that you maybe over.optimistic in that view. Now the question is if as you think it's just a small minority of photographers who are throwing their teddies and won't be missed then you won't have any problems.If however a lot of people feel as I do that attendance is not worthwhile ,then that must call into question the financial viability of the event and you won't have anything to enjoy. I dot know what the answer will be but you. may find that you actually need us more than you think.
Normannis

Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby jalfrezi on Tue 31 May 2016, 2:50 pm

Screechy wrote:
Irishaernut wrote:The very people who claim to be the most knowledgable and dedicated enthusiasts seem from where I stand after 2 years on this forum seem to hate aircraft and airshows


We obviously don't hate aircraft and airshows be we do take exception to being nannied and being milked dry of cash at the same time repeatedly, we'll add £6 quid for this, we'll add on £6 quid for that, it all adds up and then it reaches a point where it's gone too far. If it can be backed up with content then we'll swallow it, if not we'll stay away. As far as 2016 is concerned Duxford will not see me and i'm a FOD member to boot!


Indeed, being a fellow FoD member the cost of a Duxford airshow ticket is purely to see the airshow as I have been round the museum dozens of times. So when there is a very samey lineup as I have seen numerous times before, why would I keep paying to see the same thing over and over again? I don't have the memory span of a goldfish....

Duxford is a great museum but an average airshow venue. TFC's Flying Legends is a bit of an exception in my book, though I'm worried the new regs are going to severely impact it this year.
Last edited by jalfrezi on Tue 31 May 2016, 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Reasons why you chose to give Duxford a miss

Postby Tim N on Tue 31 May 2016, 2:51 pm

I'm not sure how many more times this has to be spelled out, the greatly reduced numbers were directly caused by the advance ticket policy. Aside from that and the car park charge, I had a very enjoyable day out.
Tim N

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