Flying Legends 2017

Discuss airshows and other aviation events at the Imperial War Museum
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Skyflash
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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Skyflash »

austinpj wrote:My second Flying Legends on Saturday (2008 being the first), and what a show, with perfect weather to match (did Sunday attenders experience rain?). I feel privileged to see all those magnificent men in their flying machines, not lest Miss Velma.

Suffice to say, am gutted to hear the yesterdays news, so big respect to the pilot for landing. Here's hoping it won't be too long before Miss Velma is back in the air.


No rain yesterday, just patchy (occasionally thick) cloud interspersed with some lovely bright sunshine a la Saturday.

Looking through my photos yesterday evening, bizarrely I came away with more 'keepers' from yesterday than Saturday, as as result of the fairly intense heat-haze experienced on the first day.

Great weekend all round, I thoroughly enjoyed my first ever visit to Duxford and will definitely try to get back next year. :clap:
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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by stuart n »

DonaldGrump wrote:Here is some speculation for you. The bloke had engine failure, shortly after made the decision not to risk going over the M11, put the thing down near perfectly in a field which was known to be ok to aim for in such an emergency, and the pilot has shown fantastic airmanship and great awareness of the safety of all concerned.

Bet you wont find that in the Sun or Mail.


:clap:

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by DirtyFokker »

Legends on Sunday was very good ... I took some very decent pics (IMHO :lol:) . I'm very relieved that Miss Velma appears to be repairable(?), and the pilot walked away ..... :up:. Have they moved the aircraft yet?

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Pen Pusher »

Apparently a crane on site to lift it.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by DirtyFokker »

Pen Pusher wrote:Apparently a crane on site to lift it.

Brian


Thanks for the info :smile:

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Pen Pusher wrote:Apparently a crane on site to lift it.

Brian


Oh well then the local rag will be able to update this article.....

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/ca ... y-13306595

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LN Strike Eagle
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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by LN Strike Eagle »

You do have to wonder about the viability of Duxford as a venue. I said after Shoreham that surely it couldn't continue, and I know that North Weald abandoned their plans to host a proper airshow again in the immediate aftermath because of the M11.

On the face of it, Cosford closed 18 roads I think it was, Shuttleworth have to close a country lane, and yet Duxford continues above a motorway. I don't see the logic.

Also, thinking back to last year, was it not said that the May show was poor on one day because a jam on the M11 meant they had to shift the display axis to keep the show going? There was a jam on the M11 on Friday afternoon, yet flying continued. The local roads weren't closed either. There's a big discrepancy there from the rule makers - practices and validations can go ahead with no restrictions, but show days need a clamp down.

I really don't know what the answer is here. The CAA's reaction has rather painted themselves and the industry into a corner and there's very little room for manoeuvre.
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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

LN Strike Eagle wrote:You do have to wonder about the viability of Duxford as a venue. I said after Shoreham that surely it couldn't continue, and I know that North Weald abandoned their plans to host a proper airshow again in the immediate aftermath because of the M11.

On the face of it, Cosford closed 18 roads I think it was, Shuttleworth have to close a country lane, and yet Duxford continues above a motorway. I don't see the logic.

Also, thinking back to last year, was it not said that the May show was poor on one day because a jam on the M11 meant they had to shift the display axis to keep the show going? There was a jam on the M11 on Friday afternoon, yet flying continued. The local roads weren't closed either. There's a big discrepancy there from the rule makers - practices and validations can go ahead with no restrictions, but show days need a clamp down.

I really don't know what the answer is here. The CAA's reaction has rather painted themselves and the industry into a corner and there's very little room for manoeuvre.


Exactly.

Obviously it is all a case of balancing risks and ultimately deciding what level of risk is acceptable. Many airfields / airports have a major road close to the runway threshold so clearly for normal operations that is considered acceptable. When a show is taking place or, to a lesser extent, air show practice there will be a far higher volume of aircraft crossing the road either to land or low and fast as part of their display. Plus, there is a higher chance of traffic hold ups or accidents on the road as a result of the distraction.

A partial answer is to move the display centre further from the road and shorten the runway as much as is safe by having a sterile area at the road end.

Although I am delighted if it helps Old Warden that they manage to get the road closed during displays I do wonder how well the locals will tolerate that nine times a year? I think it very unlikely that Duxford will get the M11 closed on six afternoons.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Apparently there have been plans to build a motorway service area in the "Very Naughty Field" where Miss Velma, and the Bf109 came to grief. Good luck holding airshows there once that gets built...

If even enthusiasts can see that Duxford is mental as an airshow venue, I suspect it will be a matter of time before the curtain is drawn.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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LN Strike Eagle wrote:On the face of it, Cosford closed 18 roads I think it was, Shuttleworth have to close a country lane, and yet Duxford continues above a motorway. I don't see the logic. .

The rules are that there are no aerobatic manoeuvres performed over the M11, which was why the Red Arrows datum was moved and on an angle, or during a display the aircraft must be above 500ft when they cross the M11. As they are not aerobatic manoeuvres, take off's and landings over the M11 are permitted. If traffic is stationary on the M11/A505, due to a road traffic accident near Duxford airfield, then display flying stops or datum moved further west depending on the severity of the accident.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Pen Pusher wrote:
LN Strike Eagle wrote:On the face of it, Cosford closed 18 roads I think it was, Shuttleworth have to close a country lane, and yet Duxford continues above a motorway. I don't see the logic. .

The rules are that there are no aerobatic manoeuvres performed over the M11, which was why the Red Arrows datum was moved and on an angle, or during a display the aircraft must be above 500ft when they cross the M11. As they are not aerobatic manoeuvres, take off's and landings over the M11 are permitted. If traffic is stationary on the M11/A505, due to a road traffic accident near Duxford airfield, then display flying stops or datum moved further west depending on the severity of the accident.

Brian


Miss Velma's certainly taken the heat off the Red Arrows today...

That's already three major venues they don't dare fly at, or won't use the line every other aircraft does. Farnborough, Cosford, Duxford.

Poor of DX/IWM/TFC to fail to announce that they'd be specks on the horizon this year.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Thoughtful_Flyer »

Pen Pusher wrote: If traffic is stationary on the M11/A505, due to a road traffic accident near Duxford airfield, then display flying stops or datum moved further west depending on the severity of the accident.

Brian


Interesting distinction?

So, the (hopefully remote) possibility of an aircraft crashing into stationary traffic has been judged an unacceptable risk. However hitting a busy motorway moving at say 60mph with the remaining traffic piling into the wreckage is OK?

Very difficult to know where you draw the line really.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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Dan O'Hagan wrote:Poor of DX/IWM/TFC to fail to announce that they'd be specks on the horizon this year.


I was there, down the M11 end watching them and they certainly weren't specks on the horizon, besides how do you know they were specks on the horizon when you were not there?.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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I did enjoy the show over the weekend but Duxford just drop the ball on so many occasions. Why have 5 Hurricanes up but not have them fly by together. Re enactors are great and add a fair bit so why have American re enactors standing in front of RAF machines and vice versa. The Manhattan Dolls act... i've seen similar at La Ferte Alais and they take place in front of the B17 making it a perfect backdrop and adding to the mood so what do Duxford do... have them perform in front of a partially dismantled Victor. Did the guy trying to change you £20 to have a photo from your own camera of you sitting in a Spitfire get any customers??? The display lines were pretty poor at times and as great as it is to see 9 spitfires tail chasing would it really take that much imagination to switch the 3 machines that are crowd side to the back midway through the display and the 6 others then brought crowd side.. once again it seems like the displays are largely performed for the now empty naught fields.
Again I stress that I did enjoy my time there but it could and should have been much better.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Pen Pusher wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Poor of DX/IWM/TFC to fail to announce that they'd be specks on the horizon this year.


I was there, down the M11 end watching them and they certainly weren't specks on the horizon, besides how do you know they were specks on the horizon when you were not there?.

Brian


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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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:biggrin:

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by timuss »

Screechy wrote:I did enjoy the show over the weekend but Duxford just drop the ball on so many occasions. Why have 5 Hurricanes up but not have them fly by together. Re enactors are great and add a fair bit so why have American re enactors standing in front of RAF machines and vice versa. The Manhattan Dolls act... i've seen similar at La Ferte Alais and they take place in front of the B17 making it a perfect backdrop and adding to the mood so what do Duxford do... have them perform in front of a partially dismantled Victor. Did the guy trying to change you £20 to have a photo from your own camera of you sitting in a Spitfire get any customers??? The display lines were pretty poor at times and as great as it is to see 9 spitfires tail chasing would it really take that much imagination to switch the 3 machines that are crowd side to the back midway through the display and the 6 others then brought crowd side.. once again it seems like the displays are largely performed for the now empty naught fields.
Again I stress that I did enjoy my time there but it could and should have been much better.


The 5th Hurricane had a problem with its gear and had to cycle it a couple of times on Saturday i believe and wasn't able to join up in time with the rest of the formation.
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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Flyforfun »

Some people seem to want Duxford to fail, but for me whatever form the display is, it would be a sad lose.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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Great display on the Saturday. Never fails to entertain, the tingle as they all roll out for the Balbo and are sitting there on the grass in front of you never fails to make me tingle. how lucky we are!
Just for information, anybody know why the P-36 didn't take part in the flying display, and the same for TFC's Nimrod and Gladiator.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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PJ1 wrote:Great display on the Saturday. Never fails to entertain, the tingle as they all roll out for the Balbo and are sitting there on the grass in front of you never fails to make me tingle. how lucky we are!
Just for information, anybody know why the P-36 didn't take part in the flying display, and the same for TFC's Nimrod and Gladiator.


The Gladiator is broken i believe and is down in France. The P-36 went tech in the morning.
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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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Pen Pusher wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Poor of DX/IWM/TFC to fail to announce that they'd be specks on the horizon this year.


I was there, down the M11 end watching them and they certainly weren't specks on the horizon, besides how do you know they were specks on the horizon when you were not there?.

Brian


Sorry Brian but they were. I was at the M11 end.

600mm lens plus 1.5x APS-C crop so 900mm.... I attempted to photograph the first syncro cross and gave up.

I know the shot is awful but this is full frame, uncropped at 900mm!

ImagePoor shot for example only by -evansaviography-

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

boff180 wrote:
Pen Pusher wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Poor of DX/IWM/TFC to fail to announce that they'd be specks on the horizon this year.


I was there, down the M11 end watching them and they certainly weren't specks on the horizon, besides how do you know they were specks on the horizon when you were not there?.

Brian


Sorry Brian but they were. I was at the M11 end.

600mm lens plus 1.5x APS-C crop so 900mm.... I attempted to photograph the first syncro cross and gave up.

I know the shot is awful but this is full frame, uncropped at 900mm!

ImagePoor shot for example only by -evansaviography-


Just an embarrassment to themselves and the proud tradition of RAFAT.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

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timuss wrote:
PJ1 wrote:Great display on the Saturday. Never fails to entertain, the tingle as they all roll out for the Balbo and are sitting there on the grass in front of you never fails to make me tingle. how lucky we are!
Just for information, anybody know why the P-36 didn't take part in the flying display, and the same for TFC's Nimrod and Gladiator.


The Gladiator is broken i believe and is down in France. The P-36 went tech in the morning.


Any idea why ChristopheJacquard did not appear with his Sea Fury, display that I always enjoy and we haven't seen for quite a few year? It was listed on the website as attending.

Shame there was not one formation pass with the five Hurricanes together, I didn't quite catch them on the Battle of Britain pass.

Any ideas why it has been so long since a/the Ju52 attended?

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

pb643 wrote:
timuss wrote:
PJ1 wrote:Great display on the Saturday. Never fails to entertain, the tingle as they all roll out for the Balbo and are sitting there on the grass in front of you never fails to make me tingle. how lucky we are!
Just for information, anybody know why the P-36 didn't take part in the flying display, and the same for TFC's Nimrod and Gladiator.


The Gladiator is broken i believe and is down in France. The P-36 went tech in the morning.


Any idea why ChristopheJacquard did not appear with his Sea Fury, display that I always enjoy and we haven't seen for quite a few year? It was listed on the website as attending.

Shame there was not one formation pass with the five Hurricanes together, I didn't quite catch them on the Battle of Britain pass.

Any ideas why it has been so long since a/the Ju52 attended?


Wasn't the French Spitfire that flipped over Jacquard's? Might explain his absence.

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Re: Flying Legends 2017

Post by GeorgeP »

boff180 wrote:Sorry Brian but they were. I was at the M11 end...
I must agree with Andy. I was at the M11 end, too, between the crash gate and the ARCo hangars. It was unclear to me whether the Reds were performing for Duxford or another airfield in an adjacent county. It is, of course, not their fault because they are just conforming to the regs. This doesn't take away from their superb flying skills and very tight performance but it's a little disappointing that they were not closer to us.
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