September Air Show 2017

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Tomahawk on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 11:30 am

iainpeden wrote:A few thoughts on the discussion.
First, without seeing the accounts, nobody on here can actually confirm that the tickets for the shows are a rip-off.

Duxford and the IWM have to run, to some extent, as a business and all their associated costs -insurance, marshalling, road signage, aviation fuel, displaying a/c fees etc will have to be paid for. The airshows are probably a main source of income which allows the museum to stay open throughout the winter when the only visitor is Penpusher.

The car park fee is an additional ticket fee - but put a family of four, or four enthusiasts, into a car and that costs drops dramatically.

You can't see the ticket cost as only for the flying - for many it's a once a year trip to the whole Duxford experience. I have a number of friends with children who go to the airshow maybe once every 2 or 3 years and see the flying as part of the day out rather than the whole. Maybe it's the enthusiasts who visit a few times a year who grumble about the "short" flying display.

I do agree that the flight line walk fee is not justifiable - but again, there is obviously a demand and the place needs to run. I remember in the dim and distant past when the majority of the a/c were outside and the museum wa sshut over the winter. It's turned into an active, world class aviation heritage centre and those of us who live near enough to visit on a fairly regular basis are the envy of enthusiasts around the world.

Just be careful what you wish for because in this day and age nothing is sacrosanct and I don't want the the shows to go the way of Mildenhall, Finningly etc and the museum become just that with lots of lovely exhibits but no "life".


The first entirely sensible and rational post on this subject for some time.
Tomahawk

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Tomahawk on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 11:51 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Gonzo230 wrote:Dan,

So you're comparing what is, in many ways, an experience that is unique, certainly in the U.K., in terms of venue and participation. Which airshows are you comparing it to?

I was at Reno last week, and the number of folks I spoke to there who would love to see an airshow at Duxford, especially once I described what one can see flying there was, frankly, astonishing.

Oh yes, and that's Reno, where I paid £15 a day to park.


Remind me which county of England Reno sits in?

The car park tax is merely another £5 onto a ticket, it's just that Duxford don't have the balls to do it. £33 plus £5 parking sounds a lot better than a £38 airshow ticket for a circa four-hour display...


Not that I expect you to actually to pay to go in but go find a friend or two because then it is definitely not five pounds on a ticket, go in by bus, use park and ride etc. and its not five pounds on a ticket.

Also that's what we are basing pricing on, the length of the flying display?? At one point yesterday we had thirteen spitfires on approach for a break to land with the gladiator, three more spitfires, five hurricanes and and the blenheim, taking off in between. During the actual spitfire sequence the formation split in half and the two sections used the parallel display lines to do tail chase runs towards the M11 end in the same direction which was incredible to watch (the near section went on a crowd rear circuit, something I don't think we have seen before?) . I reckon from first Spitfire take off to last Hurricane landing which completed the final display segments was around one hour and seeing that alone would have justified the cost as far as I am concerned.
Tomahawk

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Jakub.Zurek on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 2:45 pm

Yes I agree Duxford is very expensive, and the additional car park charge is a complete and utter rip off. However, I did still go, and oh boy was it worth it.

For me, it was probably the best airshow of the year that I attended. So many gorgeous warbirds, all in one place, plenty of close topsides down the M11 end (even the BBMF fighters gave a couple of topsides each), as well as plenty of excellently flown aerobatics.
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 3:00 pm

Regret not going today, but had a very good day on Friday which was better than missing out entirely.
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Pat Murphy on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 4:27 pm

Not getting involved in the tit for tat with others on here. I posted late last night and didn't have the time or indeed, the inclination to trawl through an individual's othet proclamations re Duxford. I merely stated that I thoroughly enjoyed my day yesterday. Spent with family,friends and athe rest of the crowd around me. All of whom appeared to enjoy their day. I didn't hear any moans about "value" or being "ripped off"
Said it last night, a multitude of Spitfires and Hurricanes, the Furies, Blenheim, Great Wsr Display Team, The moth team, Dakotas, BBMF etc etc all very enjoyable....well worth every shilling to me....but then i didn't just judge the day on cost did I.
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby iainpeden on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 5:08 pm

It does make you wonder if all the grumblers are accountants; knowing the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Roughcutter on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 7:34 pm

boff180 wrote:It really is massively overpriced.

Regardless of what is scheduled to fly, it’s compressed into 4.5 hours of flying display which is poor. With 45 plus warbirds flying that can easily be extended to 5.5 to 6 hours plus.

Then factor in that if you have been to Duxford before you’ll have more than likely walked the museum - which hardly changes month to month.... which to most will mean there is no static display to look at.

Yes there is the flightline walk for a few hours but that is at an additional cost so that can’t be factored in as static.

Therefore for the enthusiast travelling alone to meet mates at the show it costs...

Ticket £34
Car parking £5
Flightline walk £6



Total £45!!!

For that he/she gets....

4.5hrs flying
No static
A flightline walk.
A car park.
Arguably the most difficult photographic conditions at an airshow in the country unless you want to be squashed like cattle at the m11 end!


Andy


.... and £7 for a jumbo sausage! :shock:
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby neilos on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 9:26 pm

Regarding the flightline walk, although this one could have its own thread!

£6 is, most probably 99.9% pure profit! Where does that money go to?

You could probably agree, or not, that for Legends weekend, majority of that goes to the Fighter Collection, or does it?
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neilos

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby UKTopgun on Sun 24 Sep 2017, 10:12 pm

The point everyone seems to overlook is this: Duxford is not a rip off, it is just that a lot of airshows in this country are astonishingly good value for money. Duxford pitches itself closer to market average for a relatable day out, be that concert, theatre, music event etc. I am happy to pay and when you are enveloped by 13 Spits either side of you (great concept Brian Smith, same next time please) you understand that memories like that will not ever be cheap to put on. I love OW too but their shows can be seen as pricey when often the usual home based suspects are on the list for the display. But they get praised to the hilt and DX gets a hammering from some on here. Just can't see why those that want to go to DX are left in peace to do so! I have been to OW many times and you get a more intimate feel, but today the Spits took my breath away in a way no other show, possibly in the world, can.
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby HuwJHopkins on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 11:11 am

Is anyone aware that the AAIB are currently recruiting, plenty of the experts on here would surely be perfect for the role...
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby County1884 on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 12:13 pm

Great show yesterday
Epic Spitfire tail chase
6 Hurricanes on running up on the grass was worth the entrance fee for me alone.
People on here love to bash DX. I say we're lucky to have such a place, Genuine historic WW2 airfield with significant British and American history, Multiple Museum's on site.
I attend almost every OW airshow and I think DX compares very favourably pricewise

I bought early bird tickets, Took a nice picnic and had a great day out. Money well spent in my book.

If you think its a tenner too dear or bellyache at a fiver for parking perhaps you hadn't read the participation list? or you may need to find another hobby.
County1884

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby UKTopgun on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 12:48 pm

DX sure was packed on Sunday, more than I ever recall. I think they were using an overflow carpark to North of the A505 but far west end, which I do not recall ever seeing before.
Reports of the demise of the venue are greatly exaggerated! The jostling on the fenceline near LWH bordered on the comical - guys stooping in from way back to pop their heads up on the fence.
So rude and so annoying! I was second row but had no camera, and the 100-400 brigade were all arguing amongst themselves, even guys with iphones were jostling! The most bad tempered show I have ever been to..... as one photographer said 'the trick is to get here early'!! If kids dart infront of me I have no problem whatsoever, kids need to see, feel, smell these machines that won the freedom for all of us all those years back. That is so important.

On the plus side, the IWM cooked breakfast was great, using real plates and cutlery too! Far better than the cardboard box of last year!!!

Oh and the crowd where I was were not clapping or showing much appreciation, contrary to reports on here. Pretty miserable bunch tbh. :smile:
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 1:16 pm

HuwJHopkins wrote:Is anyone aware that the AAIB are currently recruiting, plenty of the experts on here would surely be perfect for the role...


Pay's not good enough. :smile:
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby ShutterPlane on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 1:54 pm

The only thing I find a bit annoying is with FOD membership, I'd still have to pay for an admission ticket to enter the static aircraft which open their doors, which used to be at no further cost in the past.
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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Pen Pusher on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 2:51 pm

If you are talking about the airliners, they are free to get into for anybody on any day other than air shows.

And before any one starts shouting IWM rip-off, DAS who own the airliners is not the IWM. :biggrin:

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Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby ShutterPlane on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 2:58 pm

Pen Pusher wrote:If you are talking about the airliners, they are free to get into for anybody on any day other than air shows.

And before any one starts shouting IWM rip-off, DAS who own the airliners is not the IWM. :biggrin:

Brian


I didn't know that. It's been a long time since I've been there on a non airshow day, which I promised myself that I will do some time this year.
ShutterPlane

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 3:13 pm

ShutterPlane wrote:
Pen Pusher wrote:If you are talking about the airliners, they are free to get into for anybody on any day other than air shows.

And before any one starts shouting IWM rip-off, DAS who own the airliners is not the IWM. :biggrin:

Brian


I didn't know that. It's been a long time since I've been there on a non airshow day, which I promised myself that I will do some time this year.


It's quite a pleasant experience without thousands of others getting in the way! :lol:
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby stuart n on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 5:19 pm

So much for not speculating on the causes of incidents and posting links to footage of incidents such as this. When it appears on the front of the Mail with them screaming to ban air shows again there'll be outrage :surrender:

Clearly all of the formation flying at Duxford complies with CAA regulations otherwise it wouldn't happen. Can't ever remember a join up with Sally B being rehearsed at Duxford, or any of the countless other shows where the formation takes place. I actually think some people on here are more anti air shows than the CAA.

Personally, I went yesterday and enjoyed it. Been looking forward to seeing a formation of Hurricanes like that for a long time and it was worth the wait and the Spitfire tail chase never disappoints.
Was it expensive yes?
Was it worth it? For me yes otherwise I wouldn't have paid.
Did I pay to £5 to park my car there? Yes, but I could have used the shuttle bus and parked elsewhere and avoided the charge.
You pay your money you take your choice.

Speaking to a very good source yesterday the target was 20,000 and they had sold 19,800 tickets so the general public are still certainly prepared to pay for a quality line up.
Last edited by stuart n on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stuart n

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby stuart n on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 5:38 pm

Do you know why aviation is so much safer than it was 100years ago? Because people learn lessons and, if necessary change rules, regulations and procedures to make it better.


Which is why the CAA will review the incident and decide what action to take if any. :cuppa:
stuart n

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Mike on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 5:51 pm

stuart n wrote:
Do you know why aviation is so much safer than it was 100years ago? Because people learn lessons and, if necessary change rules, regulations and procedures to make it better.


Which is why the CAA will review the incident and decide what action to take if any. :cuppa:

That's the job of the AAIB (who were on-site at Duxford yesterday). Not the CAA. The AAIB will then make recommendations based on their findings.
Mike

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby stuart n on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 5:54 pm

Mike wrote:
stuart n wrote:
Do you know why aviation is so much safer than it was 100years ago? Because people learn lessons and, if necessary change rules, regulations and procedures to make it better.


Which is why the CAA will review the incident and decide what action to take if any. :cuppa:

That's the job of the AAIB (who were on-site at Duxford yesterday). Not the CAA. The AAIB will then make recommendations based on their findings.


I stand corrected :up:
stuart n

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby hmeasures on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 7:09 pm

This thread is turning into a parody. Clearly something has gone wrong, but the forum rules state no speculation (which the mods are usually fairly hot on, but hey, lets bash Duxford). At the end of the day, both aircraft and pilots got down safe and sound, end of until the AAIB come to a conclusion. As to people saying Duxford is a hotbed of accidents, I can think of another airshow venue (that we all love) that has had (at least) 2 close calls this year. Is there selective memory going on?!

As for the pilots, many of those taking part in the formations fly regularly for the numerous wing to wing events run all over the country pretty much every weekend, so it's not as if they do it once or twice a year.

Personally I thought the show was great, and it's telling most of the complaints are coming from people who didn't actually go?! :lmao:
hmeasures

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby Xray833 on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 7:26 pm

Just got back to good old sunny Cornwall after a long wet and miserable drive from Cambridgeshire but boy, what a weekend at Duxford. Thirteeen Spitfires ( well 12 spits and a Seafire to be pedantic ) all in the air together ! The sight, sound, smell, and emotion of those flypasts - fantastic. And then the superbly choreographed tail chase. Six circulating in front of the crowd line and seven circulating behind with all to pass crowd centre as a steady stream, that was unbelievable. To do it again and again and again until I lost count. I could have stayed watching that all evening. And the same treat was served up a second day; Duxford a rip off ? Not when such a spectacle is presented to the public. All I can say is thank you IWM Duxford, I will be back for more next year.
Xray833

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby eddywinch82 on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 7:41 pm

WW2 Fighters such as P-51 Mustangs or Spitfires, formating with a B17 or a Dakota is more difficult anyway, than say a Lancaster. Due to their slower acceleration. So the fighters, have join up with them at a slower speed.
eddywinch82

Re: September Air Show 2017

Postby nbaker on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 8:25 pm

hmeasures wrote:Personally I thought the show was great, and it's telling most of the complaints are coming from people who didn't actually go?! :lmao:


Haha, I noticed that too. :lmao:

I thoroughly enjoyed the BoB show this was undoubtedly Duxfords best show of the year. :worship:

I must say I enjoyed all three shows at Duxford and will be at all again next year :rock:
nbaker

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