May Airshow

Re: May Airshow

Postby 197cup on Sun 28 May 2017, 6:02 am

JonG96 wrote:
197cup wrote:What a fantastic day today, yet again the Rafale knocks the socks off the RAF Typhoon display in my opinion. The wind caused a few issues for the Falcons and Dragon Rapide, a few acts was juggled around for those who could handle the wind better like the Apache. That TF-51 display was stunning using all of the big sky overhead Duxford. Really sorry to hear about the Sea Vixen as that was a real highlight today :sad:
I can't wait to do it all again tomorrow :smile:


What's the Typhoon's display like when compared to last years?


Pretty similar to last years really, lots of slow high alpha barrel rolls etc. It's not a bad display it just seems to spend a lot of the display around 300kts where as the Rafale spends most of the display around 500kts it seems. Much much more aggressive display from the Rafale.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby King Cobra on Sun 28 May 2017, 6:50 am

CJS wrote:
King Cobra wrote:
CJS wrote:
King Cobra wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
JJC wrote:Blades displaying somewhere in the upper-atmosphere.


No idea why shows book them. There are many, many better civilian display teams. Leave the Bladezzzzzzz to do their corporate rubbish. Fresh enough when they started, but incredibly stale now for years. Formula One egos in Vauxhall Corsas.


Speaks the world's foremost display pilot. :loser:


It's

His

Opinion

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:


I
Know
It's
His
Opinion
But it doesn't mean I have to accept it any more than he or anyone else has to accept mine. Capisce?


Yes, obviously.

But he was stating his opinion about The Blades (whom I like for what it's worth) whereas you chose to have a go at his opinion by attempting to devalue it with sarcasm and use of the loser emoji.

It's got nothing to do with his or your opinion of The Blades, which is what was being discussed, as well you know.

It just gets rather tedious when forum members resort to needless one upmanship rather than a sensible counter argument.


I'm sure Dan is quite capable of defending himself without your help.
As for "only expressing his opinion," We've all seen Dan's opinions on here. He criticises BBMF for flying too gently but in another thread he criticised other warbird pilots for being to aggressive and feels that warbirds shouldn't do aerobatics. He's entitled to his opinions but when he expresses diametrical opposite views in separate posts, that's not "having an opinion" but trying to wind up people IMO.
King Cobra

Re: May Airshow

Postby CJS on Sun 28 May 2017, 8:00 am

I'm not defending Dan, as you quite astutely point out he can do that himself - I'm bemoaning the fact that opinions are often (and obviously not just by you) met with pointless responses which do nothing to foster healthy debate.

It's nothing personal towards you or in favour of Dan, I just find it grating. Continue an argument with a counter argument, disagree with an opinion with one of your own: both are better IMHO than point scoring.

But whatever, it's a broken record on here sometimes so I'll leave it and take my soapbox back to the RIAT thread. ;-)
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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Re: May Airshow

Postby itfcscott on Sun 28 May 2017, 8:15 am

mafro987daboss wrote:Anyone know the Rafale time for Sunday?


About 17:15. All timings are the same as yesterday for the display, just with the Red Devil's in for the Falcons in the parachuting slot.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sun 28 May 2017, 8:35 am

Can we stop quoting entire conversations please? You need only quote the post you're replying to. Thank you.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby CJS on Sun 28 May 2017, 9:07 am

Will do, sorry Dan.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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Re: May Airshow

Postby stuart n on Sun 28 May 2017, 9:08 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Pen Pusher wrote:
Take away the cleaners, security and the armed police, not aot of people here.

Brian


That's what advance ticketing and £5 parking does...


Not so sure on advance ticketing mate, the forecast was decent all week and didn't change. From what I've read elsewhere it was the ticket prices that put people off.
stuart n

Re: May Airshow

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:18 am

stuart n wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Pen Pusher wrote:
Take away the cleaners, security and the armed police, not aot of people here.

Brian


That's what advance ticketing and £5 parking does...


Not so sure on advance ticketing mate, the forecast was decent all week and didn't change. From what I've read elsewhere it was the ticket prices that put people off.


I'm told the flightline walk is now an eye-watering £8? As is the programme.

So, if you're paying £33 for a ticket, £5 to park and another £8 to get within 30 feet of the thin line-up of flyers that are operating from Duxford, plus you're daft enough to buy a programme, you'll have paid out £54 before you even begin to think about additional family members, food and petrol.

Quite why anyone would pay that for what's on offer is beyond me?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: May Airshow

Postby Pen Pusher on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:22 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:the thin line-up of flyers that are operating from Duxford


If it was a thin line up of flyers, why did the show last for 4 hours 45 minutes instead of the usual 3 hours?.

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Re: May Airshow

Postby itfcscott on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:27 am

Agree with your general point with prices Dan, but the flightline walk is still £6.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby UKTopgun on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:36 am

I did the Flight line walk and it was pretty thin and seemed the aeroplanes were a little further back than usual, but it was still 6 not 8 pounds.

Display was better, longer and more varied than it has been for many years, and they tweaked the stalls layout too.

Food is my gripe, and I will not buy from DX again. Hot dogs now 6.50! IWM catering is also abysmal, the breakfast in a card box with plastic cutlery was memorable for all the wrong reasons.

I know many here take their own food, from now on I will too!

Well done to new Display director, the line up did feel fresher than past years, and longer too which is a good thing. But it was not very busy, I suspect IWM are putting families off with the high prices and cash grabbing parking fee!
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Re: May Airshow

Postby tankbuster81 on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:36 am

Looks like a decent show, but to me Duxford has always been a rip-off, and continues to be.Total greed, hence i stopped visiting many years ago.There are many shows offering far more bang for your buck! For example Biggin Hill this year has an amazing line-up, £22.00 a ticket, free parking etc, no comparison for me. That aside i hope all who visit have a cracking day today. Andy
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Re: May Airshow

Postby jalfrezi on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:37 am

I avoided going to any Duxford shows last year because of the new CAA restrictions, so there was a little trepidation on what to expect, but I have to say I really enjoyed the show yesterday, there were a wide variety of types and the Rafale in it's new paint job was simply stunning. :love:

Now to start going through all of my photos from yesterday....
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Re: May Airshow

Postby UKTopgun on Sun 28 May 2017, 10:41 am

Dan, you seem to have a downer on the Blades, now I can see they are not perhaps everyone's cup of Earl Grey, but the point about their egos, on what do you base that view?
Do you know them?

On a separate point, the French really know how to display a fast jet don't they. Wow.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Sun 28 May 2017, 11:12 am

Pen Pusher wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:the thin line-up of flyers that are operating from Duxford


If it was a thin line up of flyers, why did the show last for 4 hours 45 minutes instead of the usual 3 hours?.

Brian

You quoted a sentence but took objection to only half of it. It's a thin list of flyers operating from Duxford. That was something that I had taken into consideration myself - the flightline walk is one of the attractions of a DX show for me, but with so many aircraft operating from other airfields and based warbird numbers relatively low, I wasn't sure there would be much to see on the walk. Comments above from visitors to the show yesterday claiming it to be "thin" would tend to agree.

The obvious counter to this is "people complain when it's the same aircraft show after show", so if they're going to make an effort to draw in more variety from other airfields at the expense of stuff that can be parked on the grass, perhaps they ought to look at reducing or doing away with the price of the flightline walk when there's not much to see. Or, filling it up with based aircraft that aren't going to be flying, to at least make it worth while.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 28 May 2017, 11:23 am

itfcscott wrote:Agree with your general point with prices Dan, but the flightline walk is still £6.


Still £6 too much, paying to get a fraction closer to aeroplanes you've already paid to see, to be barked at by the resident Stasi if your little toe dares to creep onto the grass.

Just one of the reasons Duxford is a thoroughly hateful place to be for an airshow.

No surprise at all the crowds steer well clear now.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: May Airshow

Postby King Cobra on Sun 28 May 2017, 11:34 am

itfcscott wrote:
mafro987daboss wrote:Anyone know the Rafale time for Sunday?


About 17:15. All timings are the same as yesterday for the display, just with the Red Devil's in for the Falcons in the parachuting slot.

Thanks.
King Cobra

Re: May Airshow

Postby Elliott Marsh on Sun 28 May 2017, 11:56 am

I suppose the easiest way to describe the show is that I enjoyed what I assumed I would enjoy - so basically anything vintage, plus the Rafale, which was genuinely brilliant and my individual highlight. The show lacked the based warbirds many go to Duxford to see, something I hope September's event rectifies. You've got one of the best collections of warbirds in the world on-site thanks to the many operators - that they, for the most part, sat this one out is a great shame. With fewer shows than ever, opportunities to see the likes of the Blenheim, Bearcat, Hawks etc. are few and far between...

Personally don't think the crowd numbers seemed down on previous years - far more people than this time last year, based on a Mk. 1 Eyeball assessment. Looked about right for a Dux show.
Elliott Marsh

Re: May Airshow

Postby jalfrezi on Sun 28 May 2017, 12:24 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Just one of the reasons Duxford is a thoroughly hateful place to be for an airshow.



In your thoroughly biased opinion.... :handbag:

Nothing wrong with Duxford other than cost, and the orientation of the airfield. Only one of those they have any control over.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby Dan423 on Sun 28 May 2017, 12:55 pm

As a family we no longer go to the Duxford shows. It's just too expensive and doesn't represent good value for money. We have season passes for the museum so don't consider that a part of the airshow ticket price. It's a shame as until a few years ago we'd go to all of the shows but unless the prices reduce and the car parking charge is scrapped then we won't bother.
Dan423

Re: May Airshow

Postby Flare Path on Sun 28 May 2017, 1:30 pm

I attended yesterday and for the majority thoroughly enjoyed the event. Unfortunately, the 'air racing' segment with the Comet and Mew Gull was ruined by how far away they displayed and this was one particular highlight I was looking forward to - if not for the significance alone. Indeed, it wasn't just these aircraft that seemed to be much further than I remember (and I visited in the immediate changes for 2016).

Speaking on a purely performance basis, that is twice I've seen the Typhoon this year (previously at Shawbury Landowners') and both times have been thoroughly underwhelming and certainly not flown as aggressive as previous years. The same cannot be said by the stunning Dassault Rafale, a long stalwart of the best FJ routine and yesterday was no exception - incredible performance - one of the smartest liveries I can remember. I would add routines by Miss Velma, Trig Team and Sea Vixen were also very good - sad to hear the Vixen had issues RTB.

I'm not as frequent as some of you to Duxford, but has display centre been moved further right? The Apache display (from my position) was sadly quite a bit right of the silver pass enclosure it lost impact, despite the frequent use of DT pyro. Having said that, it's certainly a beefier routine thanks to the addition of the new pyro and I look forward to seeing it elsewhere in 2017.

Weather was perfect and the wind helped some of us keep cool. :sweat:

*Geoff Brindle is the new FDD, I believe. Is this the same one who displayed the EE Lightning at the Air Tattoo in the 1970's?
Flare Path

Re: May Airshow

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 28 May 2017, 1:35 pm

jalfrezi wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Just one of the reasons Duxford is a thoroughly hateful place to be for an airshow.



In your thoroughly biased opinion.... :handbag:

Nothing wrong with Duxford other than cost, and the orientation of the airfield. Only one of those they have any control over.


Not biased at all. I visit Duxford many times each year on my Sally B membership, and spend money in their catering outlets, but I will not support an airshow venue which goes out of its way to overcharge and find new ways of squeezing its customers.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: May Airshow

Postby gary1701 on Sun 28 May 2017, 1:51 pm

Gents,

I am curious as to what the attendance was yesterday. My own personal opinion from somebody who normally attends at least one Duxford show a year - with 2016 being the first year I didn't go - was whilst I would say it was busy, it wasn't what I would call Duxford busy, certainly not near what I have seen at previous Duxford years when they've had a decent to good line up and the weather to go with it. Now not having gone last year when the pre-purchase only tickets were introduced, is this the new upper limit on numbers for Duxford? Strangely I booked my ticket online Wednesday night with the website clearly saying sold out for Saturday, but I thought I would see what happened when I went through the booking process anyway, and it allowed me to still book a ticket for that day. I'm personally not a fan of advance ticket only shows anyway from the consumer point of view, although I understand why a venue does it. So I wonder, were they 'sold out' or not? If not, then that was not good attendance yesterday considering that they had the weather and a decent line up, which maybe suggests that advance ticket and price may well be a issue as they can't rely on the interest from the two Lancasters and Vulcan seasons, it's back to more realistic numbers now, and maybe the price needs to reflect that.

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Re: May Airshow

Postby jalfrezi on Sun 28 May 2017, 1:59 pm

gary1701 wrote:Gents,

I am curious as to what the attendance was yesterday. My own personal opinion from somebody who normally attends at least one Duxford show a year - with 2016 being the first year I didn't go - was whilst I would say it was busy, it wasn't what I would call Duxford busy, certainly not near what I have seen at previous Duxford years when they've had a decent to good line up and the weather to go with it. Now not having gone last year when the pre-purchase only tickets were introduced, is this the new upper limit on numbers for Duxford? Strangely I booked my ticket online Wednesday night with the website clearly saying sold out for Saturday, but I thought I would see what happened when I went through the booking process anyway, and it allowed me to still book a ticket for that day. I'm personally not a fan of advance ticket only shows anyway from the consumer point of view, although I understand why a venue does it. So I wonder, were they 'sold out' or not? If not, then that was not good attendance yesterday considering that they had the weather and a decent line up, which maybe suggests that advance ticket and price may well be a issue as they can't rely on the interest from the two Lancasters and Vulcan seasons, it's back to more realistic numbers now, and maybe the price needs to reflect that.

Gary


I booked my Saturday ticket at 9pm on Friday, so pretty sure it wasn't sold out and it didn't look overly busy either. I think the advance ticket only policy costs them a lot of visitors, of course it still guarantees them some revenue even if the weather is bad or star acts cancel, but they lose all of the spur of the moment visitors who decide to go if the weather is good.
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Re: May Airshow

Postby jalfrezi on Sun 28 May 2017, 2:19 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Not biased at all. I visit Duxford many times each year on my Sally B membership, and spend money in their catering outlets, but I will not support an airshow venue which goes out of its way to overcharge and find new ways of squeezing its customers.


So why bother coming on this thread in the first place, as you're basing your negative comments on hearsay as you weren't even there! Your comment about the flightline walk was incorrect, and Duxford aren't alone in charging for that sort of thing. Yes the parking charge sucks, but you have a choice not to go.

If you feel so strongly why not take it up with IWM Duxford?
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