Thoughts on the show (Merged)

[davew55]

I am prone to the odd moan but hardly ever when it comes to aviation matters . However having just got home from Farnborough I can honestly say its been the worst day I have ever had at an airshow, anywhere.

65 mile drive to Farnborough was ok but then the last mile and half from joining the queue to get into the car park to actually getting into it took an hour. Then the queue for the shuttle bus was about 300 yds long, 4 to 6 deep. Decided to walk. My decision I know, but at least 4 / 5 times as many buses where needed, especially as we where parked in what seemed like the next county. I arrived at 09:30 the advertised opening time by the way !

Once inside, and despite having purchased well in advance a £52 Diamond Package ticket I had to join another queue of 100 - 200 people. Next came security, everything out of pockets, watch of etc. Still set off the scanner device due to metal belt buckle. Was then asked to stand to one side but leave my camera bag on the table. I refused to leave it there and they then threw a right wobbly. Others in the queue / security checks where also complaining, comments like " even RIAT isn t this bad". One suited gentleman had brought his son with him on his companies corporate passes and they objected to that and he went mental with them. It would be easier to check in for a transatlantic flight and immigration the other end.

When I started walking round the static the number of school groups blocking walkways was unbelievable. Totally blocked the path past the media centre at one point so people where having to force their way through.

The flying itself was affected by the weather which is no ones fault but several largish gaps and a much earlier finish than advertised as well. Vulcan was good to see but with low cloud some displays where much too far away, needed to be nearer the display line.

Not been to Farnborough for a long time and I will not waste my time going again . Really hope anyone going over the weekend finds better transport laid on than today.

Dave

[LN Strike Eagle]

Made my mind up once and for all then. Thanks.

[Lightning]

I'm glad I didn't waste any more fuel money by going today then. I spent £30 on a ticket for today, but decided it would be a waste of energy, having seen the 787 and Malaysian A380 earlier in the week (from the outside of course).

I heard a programme about Farnborough on radio 4 the other day, and the obsession with 'security' is genuinely scary - we're all a threat it seems

[wv383]

I can't comment about your experiences of queuing for the car parks/shuttle buses, but the security checks have been like this for some years now. Easiest way to avoid the hassle at the scans is to have everything together. I use one of those waistcoat things (or a coat with plenty of pockets) and everything goes in there. Just take it off and put the whole thing through the xray machine. Then there is nothing on me to set the scanners off. I entered via the gate from Eelmoor (no queue for the car par, just drove straight in) today and yes there was a queue at security but it only took about 10 minutes or so. The thing that did hold it up was people who still left things in their pockets even after being asked if they had put everything in the trays. Exiting was easy except for the lorry that had decided to try and turn round in a too narrow area and had got stuck in the mud thus holding up the shuttle buses. Once at the car, drove straight out of the car park with no queue. Part of the problem with the car parks was totally out of the organiser's hands as the main public car park cannot be used due to waterlogging. thus other emergency car parks have had to be used and with them being a) further away and b) harder to get to, delays would be inevitable. this car park problem has been mentioned on several threads on this forum right through the week.

As for the flying display, certainly the published start time was a bit deceiving as the first hour was given over to a school's rocketry challenge and waiting for the Falcons, who then had to scrub due to the cloud base. Parachute teams always take a long time due to the procedures they have to go through before and after their display. I was stood back from the crowdline behind the Diamond area and to be honest noticed virtually no gaps in the display. The only real one was when they towed the Vulcan out. Once the A380 took off it was pretty seamless right through to the finish with the Vulcan. that was due to lift at 1640 and finish display at 1648 which it kept to exactly. The original published finish time for the Friday was 1700 so it was only 12 minutes early. (The one thing that did amaze me was the guy in the Diamond Area - right at the far right end from he entrance to the area - who despite being right against the fence and thus having nothing in front of him, spent the whole afternoon stood on a short pair of steps giving him precisely six inches of extra height above those around him but blocking the view of those behind him!)

The problem of height and distance of displays from the crowd has been thrashed out on this and other forums for years and will never change.

As for the hordes of kids about, that was what the day was all about. The Futures Day is about providing a day where there is information, seminars and all sorts of other things for the schoolchildren to encourage an interest in aviation and aerospace so that they might consider a career in the industry. I took a wander into the Innovation Zone where there were several companies and universities showing what they do and what they have to offer and the place was heaving. The kids loved it and you could see that there was genuine enthusiasm there both from the stand holders and the children themselves. I think that it is a great idea that the organisers came up with some years ago as youngsters need to be encouraged otherwise there will be even less British talent coming up than there is now. Yes, of course most of them were 'brochure/sticker hunting'. But haven't most of us been guilty of that! Most were very well behaved. The only real problem I spotted was one group of young boys who were throwing rubbish around and everytime one of the collectors picked it up, they threw some more down. A quick word to the teacher, pointing out the very real hazards of doing that on an airfield soon put a stop to it.

Finally, the gent who had the argument regarding his child using his trade ticket/corporate pass. If he had taken a look at the ticket, he would have seen that there is a lower age restriction on the use of them. Children are not permitted to use trade tickets and haven't been allowed to do so for years. This is done to discourage exactly what this gentleman was trying to do. Many years back when there was no restriction, the Exhibitors were being plagued on the Trade Days by hoardes of freeloading children while they were trying to do what they were there for. That is to do business at the Trade Show. Also, if he was using one of the plastic passes, then they are name specific bearing name, company and position within the company. If it was being used by a child, it would be plainly obvious to the person doing the checks that the child wasn't eliglible to use it. In view of this, it was perfectly within the rights of the person checking his tickets to refuse entry. It is often the case that those who make the most noise when challenged, as this gentleman was, does so because in fact he knows he shouldn't have done it in the first place!

[The Flyingkiwi]

I have to agree with Dave on this. F'boro is my local and have been attending the Friday events for a long time. Unfortuately for FIA I would have not called today an Enthusiasts day as there was little in the static or flying display to get enthusiastic about. Don't get me wrong the Vulcan, Breitlings Jets, Osprey, F-18 etc were great, but a lot of the unique stuff that had been at the show during the week had either already departed or did not fly today. The static park this year seemed lacking.

I know there will be thoughts and comments out there like , well you did attend a trade day, etc but to be fair today was billed as an enthusiasts day. I have all respect for the airshow organisers, but doubt I will paying £52.00 for this again, and will stick to my local Morrisons car park for viewing.... As also mentioned by people at RIAT - food is also expensive. e.g. Baguette £5.00, chicken noodles £ 6.50. Bring your own...

I hope those attending over the weekend have a better show than today. Thus ends my 2012 airshow events...

[wv383]

Static was thinner than it should have been mainly due to the weather. Some that were meant to come down late Wednesday couldn't and by then it was too late. The Venom got in in time, as did the Hawk. A couple more arrived during this morning, but by then it was too late to get them parked in the static.

To be honest I didn't realise it was still billed as 'Enthusiasts Day'. All the publicity mentions 'Futures Day' as it's mainly aimed at schools and education with this year the 'Diamond Package' tagged on as an extra.

[jalfrezi]

I was seriously tempted not to go today because of the weather and cancelled displays, but as I'd already bought the ticket I figured I might as well.

I didn't have the same problems as davew55, but then I didn't arrive until just after 11am, got parked straight away and no queues for the bus or getting my badge.

Managed to get some decent pics despite the grey miserable weather

............getting home was a complete nightmare though

[AARDVARK]

Well I attended the bi-annual event on Wednesday and friday(yes I know why twice,second as a sentimental trip with my mum who always took me as a kid), and afraid to say the flying and static were in a poor state.

Iam not one for posting rants and try to always look at the positive side.

So positives were......

Flying display.
Vulcan(fri)
Typhoon(fri)
Yak 130(wed)
787(wed)
A380(wed&fri)
Osprey(wed&fri)
Korean T50(wed&fri,why not whole team as shown in programme)
Static
Few interesting bits
Omega tanker
Korean 737
Maltese a/c(sorry can't remember what it was)
Anniversary hawk(tucked away behind chalets)
Osprey
Columbian herc
Black hawk
Catalina
Dakota(fri)

Oh and weather wasn't too bad either day,especially Wednesday.

That's it for positives,bad points are as.....

Padding display out to make it seem longer than it is by filling with uav and various non existent items for over an hour 13.00 to 14.00 approx on Friday.
Towing Vulcan down as display item(ie padding again)
No Reds on fri(why is it that a number of a/c didn't validate for RIAT due to weather but still flew over weekend,but reds weren't allowed to at FIA?)
Non existent commentary along crowd line.
Visible toilets not in service either wed or fri.
Why not include tornado role demo,apache ect on fri aswell?
Being crammed into buses like sardines to take us back to carpark
No marshalling to parking areas which consisted of parking in a disused military centre.
Complete rip off at £35 each for what accounted to 3 hours flying display on Friday,not sure how jubilee theme came into the whole days events?

Farnborough has become such a poor shadow of its former self.

[Suki]

I totally agree the fact that the reds had to validate in the first place is a joke the organisation should regonise that and any uk based teams know what they are doing backwards. It should be that only foreign teams need to validate. In addition there was no F16 flying this year when there are several European teams who could of easily filled the void. It seems that they cannot be bothered to entertain the paying public and just host a boring lame tradeshow.

[Brummiekid]

I went yesterday (Fri). I will never moan about the the cost of attending RIAT ever again. To say I was not impressed is an understatement.

My first Farnborough was in 1968. My last was 2012. They have taken the p1ss once too often.

[sideeffectwhu]

I wouldnt go to farnboro if it was the only show on earth. It seems they only have public days to recoup the money the used for the trade days. And if the weather stays like this the pay on the day turnstiles will hardly click

[trebleone]

..... the organisation should regonise that and any uk based teams know what they are doing backwards. It should be that only foreign teams need to validate.

It's not a simple case of "knowing what they are doing", however ... the quote below is taken from http://olympics.airspacesafety.com/news/article-on-farnborough-airshow-restrictions

"Every aircraft flying as part of the show must demonstrate their displays, including good weather (High) and bad weather (Low) versions, and the transisition between the two, in front of a rigorous approval committee called the Flying Control Committee. Pilots must prove they can fly their selected display safely and that the displays are suitable for the difficult flying restrictions imposed by the geography of Farnborough, the neighbouring airfields and the presence of large amounts of permanent Class A controlled airspace. If they fail any element they will be either asked to modify the routine, demonstrate it again or have their invitation to display revoked."

So however well they know their own routine they must still demonstrate that they can safely contain it within the available airspace at the specific venue.

[DerekF]

We went on Monday and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement.
Bad
Put all the fast jets together at the beginning - yep, that'll work.
Filling in with the Stolp and Speed Twin (seriously?) while they go through a faff moving aircraft around.
Long gaps where nothing at all happened.
Inaudible commentary which meant that we were none the wiser when nothing at all happened.
The blocking of pedestrian routes when moving aircraft which meant long detours around the site.
The mixing of traffic and pedestrians around the trade site - very dangerous.
Poor choice of food and what was there was stupidly expensive.
A long walk from the parking (an old military site I think) to the bus.
Cramped bus with a driver that seemed to delight in knowing many of his passengers were standing - or at least trying to.
The Russian Knights cancelling.

Good
Most of the static display was still intact and hadn't left.
The displays that did fly were very good.
Seeing a Boeing airliner in the flying display - first for many years (737 in 1984?)


I've been to every Farnborough air show since 1978 and my Dad since the 1950s. I don't know if we'll be back.

[Brummiekid]

In 2014 there will be 4 less going through security and at least one car less in the car park. 1968 was my first Farnborough - 2012 was my last.

[farnboroughrob]

Guess I had a very different experience from others? I had been present all the arrivals week so had seen everything arrive and this was mainly a photo trip.
Left home around 08:30, arrived at I gate car park 08:45, straight onto shuttle bus, through security check check by 9. Weather was not great for static photos but managed to get all that I needed. Took the long walk up the static via breakfast. Bacon roll was £5 but was enormous and enough for 2. Toilets were not well signposted. Went into the halls for a look round and generally disappointed as there are less and less interesting companies in there. Airbus and BAE had outside challets not easy to get to. Airbus had restricted access to their exhibition, finmeccia were unhelpful as normal .
The thing I love about trade days is you can walk up to the crowd line as the first flying item starts and easily get a place. Flying was generally good even though I had seen the practices all week. Went back to the car park around 3 as my feet were aching. Went back to the airport watch enclosure where I had been all week and stayed to around 6 having no problem departing. One thing of note is that I managed to get somebody else in on Wednesday on my badge I used on Tuesday, so much for day specific badges!
As for the aircraft it had exactly what I want to see at FIA, aircraft on delivery to customers that I will never see again. Thus the Korean 737, Aerosvit E190, Aeroflot SSJ,Eurolot DHC8, and Air Jamaica ATR72 (yes i know it was in a special scheme) went down very well. Other highlights Maltese Be200, Polish S70, MV22's, and the Columbians.
I think FIA is really a spotters show rather than a photographers, if you want exotic numbers that is what you will get.

[MarkL]

As for the aircraft it had exactly what I want to see at FIA, aircraft on delivery to customers that I will never see again. Thus the Korean 737, Aerosvit E190, Aeroflot SSJ,Eurolot DHC8, and Air Jamaica ATR72 (yes i know it was in a special scheme) went down very well. Other highlights Maltese Be200, Polish S70, MV22's, and the Columbians.
I think FIA is really a spotters show rather than a photographers, if you want exotic numbers that is what you will get.

That's it exactly for me. Went on Monday no issues parking, transfering, entering the site or leaving. The quality of the aircraft was very good as Rob has illustrated in his post.

MarkL

[maffie]

2 years ago was the last time for me. We used to go on the Friday when its was Enthuiasts Day (parking was easy, security checks were quick and efficient and the crowd line wasn't that busy) The interesting aircraft are there Mon-Thurs, and Sat & Sun. Friday seems to be a change over day from Trade to Airshow status. And now with Futures Day on Friday as well it just isn't a fun day out anymore.

Key publishing advertise this event on the Friday at £50 odd quid !!!! Forget the Friday and stick with the weekend, but after reading the above posts, think I'll skip teh weekend as well.

Matt

[dale b]

Have to say i prob won't pay to go in again, i'll go outside on the ridge at the end of the runway instead. The display lacked any real depth, had it not been for the vulcan i wouldn't have prob gone in, but i was desperate to get some take off/landing shots of her. I thought the Typhoon and Hornet were good, and the A380 being chucked about and then the wet take off and landing made for some great photos. Tornados were scrubbed as were the redhawks, making an already underpar display even more so. Howver my experience of getting in and out of the venue was a lot easier than some of the horror stories i have read on here, into north camp at 8.30, straight on a bus, straight in, bought ticket, straight through security no problems. and leaving was much the same, had to wait 5 mins for the bus. Toilets were kept about as clean as could be expected in the conditions. But for £41, not again, not unless the line up improves substantially.

[TheSpur8]

I thought it was extremely poor today, not only had we lost the Suhkois earlier this week but losing the YAK and now Tornados really made this a poor show. Does anyone know why the tornados were scrapped today and will they fly tomorrow?

[JBartlett]

I thought it was extremely poor today, not only had we lost the Suhkois earlier this week but losing the YAK and now Tornados really made this a poor show. Does anyone know why the tornados were scrapped today and will they fly tomorrow?

Yeah I two want to know why the tornados did not take part was looking forward to seeing them, though heard a word that next time Farnborough has someone else in charge but that's hush hush


James

[stonesfan]

I was barely satisfied with Friday's show. The weather just about held out thank goodness. Another positive before this was applying for my tickets online and being totally honest about my job role and the role of my workmate rather than having to make some cock and bull domain name such as director@aviationsystems.com! We're both fairly senior IT support workers at a large educational establisment and I put in 'research' for the reason of the visit. Tickets approved no problem! Sadly though there probably won't be a next time if the offerings were as mediocre as they were. £37.50 is RIAT levels of pricing and whilst that particular event got a lot of criticism last year in general, unfortunately Farnborough seems to be getting it this time around.

The flying display was okay. I'm not going to slate Farnborough for the lack of SU27s. They can't be held responsible, although I'd like to think they did their utmost hardest to get another star act in. Positives were the Typhoon, Vulcan and F18, but as is always the case, they are a little too far and too high at Farnborough.

The concept of letting groups of kids in is indeed excellent. It may just influence their decision making in the future to follow what could be a rewarding career than simply wanting to be the next participant on x factor. However, I do wish teachers would be more mindful that this is an adult environment and that maybe they would do well to actually enforce their kids to behave in a grown up manner than running amok as they did in some cases. Yep, they get excited, just as we all would have done but can we please have a bit more control over them.

However, overall, it just felt overpriced and mediocre. Last year RIAT and Waddington took some pelters. Both have upped their game and I'm hoping Farnborough does so when it returns. Looking at the calender, its only mid July and yet thats probably my airshow season over now!

[AMB]

The same complaints come up every Farnborough for the past few years. The reality of it it there is no longer any British aircraft industry worth speaking about and there are less and less new aircraft even from the rest of the world. The trouble is that the Farnborough Air Show found fame during the '50s and '60s and has never been the same since, yet the current organisers cash in on that 'fame' making everyone believe the show can ride on its reputation whatever they display, or don't display, as the case may be. At the end of the day, it's still worthwhile as a trade show for the industry but the weekend public days are just a rip off!

[farnboroughrob]

I like Farnborough because it's my local show, if it was in the north of England I would not bother! These issues come up evey year, im sure we will have some poor reactions on the public days soon.
Farnborough is very much two different shows. Monday to Thursday is a worthwhile visit, particualy Monday and Tuesday. A relaxed atmosphere, no crowds, plenty of room on the flight line, interesting visitors to photograph arriving and the trade stands to wander round. By Wednesday aircraft are starting to depart and others arrive for a day or two(A320 with sharklets this year). Friday is a rip off just as IMHO most things are that are billed as enthusiasts day. The weekends are overpriced considering the display in the air and on the ground. It annoys me that the exhibitors pay millions to have stands, chalets and aircraft at the show and the public day tickets are so costly. What Farnborough counts on is now being London's airshow since the demise of Biggin Hill . It is so easy to get on a train from Waterloo to Farnborough and then a quick bus ride, Fairford is so much more cost and hassle for Londoners.
I still maintain that by the end of the decade this will be a three or four day trade only event.

[parsley]

We went on Monday and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement.
Bad
Put all the fast jets together at the beginning - yep, that'll work.
Filling in with the Stolp and Speed Twin (seriously?) while they go through a faff moving aircraft around.
Long gaps where nothing at all happened.
Inaudible commentary which meant that we were none the wiser when nothing at all happened.
The blocking of pedestrian routes when moving aircraft which meant long detours around the site.
The mixing of traffic and pedestrians around the trade site - very dangerous.
Poor choice of food and what was there was stupidly expensive.
A long walk from the parking (an old military site I think) to the bus.
Cramped bus with a driver that seemed to delight in knowing many of his passengers were standing - or at least trying to.
The Russian Knights cancelling.

Good
Most of the static display was still intact and hadn't left.
The displays that did fly were very good.
Seeing a Boeing airliner in the flying display - first for many years (737 in 1984?)


I've been to every Farnborough air show since 1978 and my Dad since the 1950s. I don't know if we'll be back.

You do realise that you went on one of the trade days don't you and as such the flying was not geared towards the airshow enthusiast ?

[parsley]

We went on Monday and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement.
Bad
Put all the fast jets together at the beginning - yep, that'll work.
Filling in with the Stolp and Speed Twin (seriously?) while they go through a faff moving aircraft around.
Long gaps where nothing at all happened.
Inaudible commentary which meant that we were none the wiser when nothing at all happened.
The blocking of pedestrian routes when moving aircraft which meant long detours around the site.
The mixing of traffic and pedestrians around the trade site - very dangerous.
Poor choice of food and what was there was stupidly expensive.
A long walk from the parking (an old military site I think) to the bus.
Cramped bus with a driver that seemed to delight in knowing many of his passengers were standing - or at least trying to.
The Russian Knights cancelling.

Good
Most of the static display was still intact and hadn't left.
The displays that did fly were very good.
Seeing a Boeing airliner in the flying display - first for many years (737 in 1984?)


I've been to every Farnborough air show since 1978 and my Dad since the 1950s. I don't know if we'll be back.

You do realise that you went on one of the trade days don't you and as such the flying was not geared towards the airshow enthusiast ?

and further your comment about the moving of aircraft around if you've been to a trade day every day since 1978 you'll surely remember they been doing that every show since 78 !!