Thoughts on the show (Merged)

[Onetime]

The family visited Farnborough on Sunday and as we had such a great day out I thought it worth commenting.

Firstly, the cost. £35ish in advance is not cheap but what big show isn't. Top gear live is £49. A day out on a steam hauled mainline railtour is typically around £90. A burger (on its own) in Legoland recently cost about £7. You would think that some people writing here spent the rest of the year living in a cave in Tibet

We paid a few extra quid to park in the fluor multi-story which was well worth it, we parked at 8.30 and were in & quickly past security within minutes. We set up camp by the crowd line barriers in front of the grandstand and the atmosphere with those around was great. During the morning, the wife & daughter had a great time looking around and had one of the Heli flights

The airshow itself was good, no one would claim it was as good as riat etc, but for families who only visit one show every year or two it was a non stop afternoon with a good variety of aircraft - most shapes and sizes covered. The commentry was clear, loud and generally interesting! People were friendly & considerate. People were not pushing in at the front but little kids were being allowed through to see. We did not experience the sort of chair wars problems discussed on the RIAT thread!

I do feel that those who are so critical should consider who their greatest market is because it definitely appeared to be families on Sunday where we were. I think that whereas RIAT is aimed more at enthusiats, Farnborough is now aimed at families and it is no surprise that enthisiasts are dissappointed.

We left, like most, after the Vulcan display and after the long walk to the gate we had to queue a few minutes for a bus but we were able to drive straight out of farnborough without queuing in traffic

So for us an enjoyable trip at a cost which was typical for a family day out.

^^ Good points,

Also neither of us mentioned kids got in for free.

[AARDVARK]

By reading these posts there seems to be a clear distinction from the seasoned airshow goers/enthusiasts who by and large were dissappointed with the show to those who have probably just decided to go for a day out as its either nearby or know Farnborough as a famous show and probably wouldn't go to the likes of RIAT or Waddington,it is clear that Farnborough doesn't cater for the enthusiast,the rare A/C that were on show are there due to their manufacturers leasing them back from the respective airarms,not from FIA team going out of their way to entice them,the exeption possibly to this is the Russian Knights which I assume were/would have been paid allot of money to attend and ultimately didn't!
I think the organisers then pad out the show at weekends with airshow favourites such as Red Arrows,BBMF,Vulcan,stuff that joe public know.
I honestly believe that the organisers couldn't give 2 hoots that for example the flying display on Fri only contained 3 fast jet displays(T50,Hornet and Typhoon)or that the Reds couldn't display as they hadn't validated,which appears very strange as being an RAF display team surely they wouldn't need validating at every show,do they for instance validate at all the seaside shows they attend and I don't recall them validating at RIAT this year(correct me if Iam wrong)I would have thought that be forced not to display on their scheduled day wouldn't go down to well with them and their pr aswell!

[DDM10]

The commentry was clear, loud and generally interesting!

For some people I'm sure it was, but from my vantage point it was not audible at all. Yeovilton has speakers the length of the crowdline, it could have been much better at Farnborough, especially considering this was their 48th year! I did still enjoy the day, though for my ticket price it would have been nice to hear the commentary.

I honestly beleive that the organisers couldn't give 2 hoots

I think you're right and that's the sad thing about it. You get that impression when you're there too.

[UKTopgun]

Commentary was by Stratton Ritchie and whilst it was ok, I think having heard Dan and Ben the previous week, I enjoyed them more.

[verityboo]

For some people I'm sure it was, but from my vantage point it was not audible at all. Yeovilton has speakers the length of the crowdline, it could have been much better at Farnborough, especially considering this was their 48th year! I did still enjoy the day, though for my ticket price it would have been nice to hear the commentary..

As I was able to hear the commentary from near the grandstand, they said it is the largest temporary PA system set up in Europe, uses 15 miles of cable & took 2 months to set up. It sounded as though they had put a lot of resources into setting it up. I definitely think that those who could not hear should feed that back to the organisers as they are obviously not shy on spending money on it and it doesn't sound as though they got their moneys worth!

[AMB]

The commentry was clear, loud and generally interesting!

For some people I'm sure it was, but from my vantage point it was not audible at all. Yeovilton has speakers the length of the crowdline, it could have been much better at Farnborough, especially considering this was their 48th year!

Whose 48th year? First Farnborough show was 1948, so they have had 64 years to get it right!

[wv383]

The problem with the PA is that for some reason they don't put any at all close to the crowd line along the static where it is at its narrowest and therefore the most congested. They've done it that way for years and is definitely something that they should change. It maybe of course that due to the very temporary nature of the barriers - needed for aircraft movements - that it's something that they can do little about.

[PeterR]

A PA system which covers the whole site is required by law though...

CAP 403
2.3.1 A public address system covering the spectator enclosures is essential. Such a
system, when installed, must be audible throughout the whole area to which
spectators have access.

[pbeardmore]

What I dont understand is that smaller shows on a tight budget do everything they can to ensure they comply with CAA requirements. This particular requirement makes complete sense as communicating with the crowd during an emergency must be seen as essential.
With what has been said about validation and displays being further away from the crowd that at other displays, this implies a great focus on safety which makes it even stranger that they have clearly ignored this requirement.

[AlexC]

I think the organisers then pad out the show at weekends with airshow favourites such as Red Arrows, BBMF,Vulcan ,stuff that joe public know.

I think you're quite right about that, and that's the way it's been for sometime now. I'm lucky enough to remember the time when the public day's (used to be Friday, Saturday and Sunday) included all the trade day aircraft plus a few extras such as Spitfire, Hurricane etc., although occasionally of course a trade day aiircraft would go tech. and not make the flying display. Disappointing, but just one of those things. I used to go on Friday which was a bit more expensive, but worth it because it wasn't as crowded as Saturday and Sunday. Also the seats which were put out by the barrier by the runway for the trade day visitors were left there on Friday, but I believe these were removed before Saturday.

[st24]

Public days should be changed to advance tickets only, it was stupidly, dangerously overcrowded today. To the point where it would on the crowdline take 10 minutes to walk a couple hundred yards (I'm not exaggerating either). .

Therin lies the problem - or not?! The organisers will see the place packed to the rafters and think they're doing a good job, after all they have the Reds, BBMF a big impressive heavy, a helicopter or 2 and some speed and noise - joe public boxes ticked, job done! I can only imagine the lack of a Biggin show these days mean that the airshow starved southerners will turn out in force even for this sub standard event. At least Farnborough remains the only big show where the crowd line is completely devoid of corporate tents/enclosures and other obstructions...

[DDM10]

Whose 48th year? First Farnborough show was 1948, so they have had 64 years to get it right!

That's true, I meant it's the 48th airshow, as it's been held every other year since 1962.

It maybe of course that due to the very temporary nature of the barriers - needed for aircraft movements - that it's something that they can do little about.

Good point. That would make it difficult to put speakers the length of the crowd line.

[st24]

The commentry was clear, loud and generally interesting!

For some people I'm sure it was, but from my vantage point it was not audible at all. Yeovilton has speakers the length of the crowdline, it could have been much better at Farnborough, especially considering this was their 48th year!

Whose 48th year? First Farnborough show was 1948, so they have had 64 years to get it right!

In years yes, but not shows. The event went biennial in '66 was it, so I make it 42 shows?... But yes, obviously even in a none show year the planning is stlll taking place...

[pbeardmore]

Whose 48th year? First Farnborough show was 1948, so they have had 64 years to get it right!

That's true, I meant it's the 48th airshow, as it's been held every other year since 1962.

It maybe of course that due to the very temporary nature of the barriers - needed for aircraft movements - that it's something that they can do little about.

Good point. That would make it difficult to put speakers the length of the crowd line.

I think with the budget and resources available to the organisers, a proper PA system is within their grasp. As welll as the safety implications, in our area, the significance of the Reds missing man formation was lost on jo public and only a handful of us stood and applauded. A perfect example of how a good PA system can add to the enjoyment and experience of the audience (in addition to being a legal requirement)

[TonyO]

Didn't get to go this year with work, but everything I have read suggests that Farnborough is broken as both a public show and as a trade show and cannot be fixed. I doubt an appearance by the Russian Knights could have saved it. It's no longer able to pander to the big defence companies, note there was no Northrop Grumman this year, and that is likely to continue in the coming years. There is no-way the show can survive on the scale it currently is with big companies walking away.

Maybe its time for the organising company to have a re-think...?

[verityboo]

Didn't get to go this year with work, but everything I have read suggests that Farnborough is broken as both a public show and as a trade show and cannot be fixed. I doubt an appearance by the Russian Knights could have saved it. It's no longer able to pander to the big defence companies, note there was no Northrop Grumman this year, and that is likely to continue in the coming years. There is no-way the show can survive on the scale it currently is with big companies walking away.

Maybe its time for the organising company to have a re-think...?

Its interesting to hear the trade show described as broken, they announced over the PA during the weekend airshow that orders during the trade days were up from US$47bn in 2010 to US$72bn this year. I realise that stats can be massaged but they still indicate it was a pretty good year

[TonyO]

The thing to bear in mind is that the majority of the big orders are just announced at Farnborough, none of these negociations really take place at the show, they have been done weeks or months in advance. The likes of Airbus and Boeing just ask the permission of the client to hold the news until the show opens and then the two can battle away all week. In terms of defence, you'll find a lot more business is probably done behind the scenes at Fairford where the companies can do more business quietly and discretely than they can at a very public Farnborough.

[vespasia]

you'll find a lot more business is probably done behind the scenes at Fairford

Extremely unlikely Tony, most of the defence business is (sadly) done by politicians, and the company representation at Fairford is very limited in the first place. Fairford is a great shop window for the military to see what they'd like, but in practise they don't have much say about what they get!

[pbeardmore]

isn't most business done at the 19th hole?

[st24]

Quite co-incidentally I'm reading an old Farnborough book published just before the 1970 show and describing each event - including the Hendon, Radlett and Hatfield days in great detail - spiffing stuff. Even then though the writer casts a gloomy eye over the future and questioned wether the show could exist in it's current format (week long exhibition/trade and 3 (back then) big public days with increased service and civilian participation in the lengthy, exciting flying displays. Things have changed but I look back at the '70s, 80s and 90s Farnboroughs and recall some truly classic airshows, backed up of course by almost daily TV programmes and Raymond Baxter's brilliant commentary. Things really have changed now though...

Oh and you're quite right pbeardmore - it did indeed go bienial in 1962...

[DDM10]

Oh and you're quite right pbeardmore - it did indeed go bienial in 1962...

Indeed it did...

[Duxfordian]

Verityboo? You work for Farnborough airshow, right?

[verityboo]

Verityboo? You work for Farnborough airshow, right?

Yes, thats right. Off to spend my cut of the $72bn now

[TonyO]

you'll find a lot more business is probably done behind the scenes at Fairford

Extremely unlikely Tony, most of the defence business is (sadly) done by politicians, and the company representation at Fairford is very limited in the first place. Fairford is a great shop window for the military to see what they'd like, but in practise they don't have much say about what they get!

That's not true, otherwise air arms would not need to send delegations of experienced personnel to these major trade shows. Politicians are influenced by the advice their generals and air marshals make in terms of equipment they need or would like and we aren't just talking about aircraft. Fairford attracted around 40 air chiefs from around the world including the head of the US Air Force, way more than Farnborough. Company representation at RIAT might be thinner than at FIA but those companies that do appear are the major players. Farnborough is where business-to-business deals take place, but Fairford is where these companies get to really interact with their customers. I can't back it up with quotes, but from a couple of visits to the chalets over the weekend I heard no end of people saying how much they preferred doing business at RIAT over Farnborough.

[Russ]

I agree the show is broken beyond repair. I had similar experiences in 2008 and 2010, but 2012 was without a doubt the worst yet and indeed the worst show I've ever been to.

Tony is of course right, no airline/air arm negotiates a multi billion pound deal in the space of Farnborough week.

For what was once such a prestigious airshow, this year Farnborough failed on some of the very basics that even tiny airshows get right, such as toilets, security and a PA system. How the mighty have fallen. A shame really as many of my favourite airshow moments I've experienced at Farnborough, such as the MiG-29, Su-27, An-124 and An-225 débuts. And the problems are entirely self-inflicted too.