Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby jules48 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 12:17 pm

I bet all those who complain now will still turn up in 2020.Perhaps better co-ordination with RIAT may have allowed for more aircraft types.Yeovilton managed to get the Canadian F-18 and French with I assume alot better communication.It appears FIA is only interested in trade days and the public days are just an add on to make more money.If they read their Facebook page I am sure that alot of the comments may be taken on board but don't hold your breath.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby pbeardmore on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 12:30 pm

If much of the fixed overheads are covered by the trade show and enough punters are willing to pay the high prices on the pubic days, I would assume they will just keep going?
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby farnboroughrob on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 1:17 pm

The main thing lacking was fast jets, they don't massively interest me but you need them if you are charging premium prices. From feed back I have seen locally people who remembered the 'old days' thought it was rubbish but people who had never been before thought it was great. It needed 3 more fast jet displays to make it viable. However the big problem is the current rules and flying over populated areas. By 2020 there will be a new housing estate on the Pyestock site and the area by Costco will be fully populated. That gives very little wiggle room, maybe the rules will change by then? The thing I don't get with the red arrows is that they will happily flypast in formation on arrival but will not even fly a modified flat show with various formation changes, strange.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 1:27 pm

What this needs is the UKAR Staff team to properly investigate the situation and get face-to-face reaction from the organisers and thoroughly grill them on all aspects of the show - the pricing, the halls shutting and star items disappearing before the weekend, the airspace restrictions, the wafer thin seaside line-ups, the woeful RAF support in their centenary year and above all else the public reaction and perception of the Farnborough brand, and whether the public show has a viable future.

I'd suggest the Staff team should be on this as a matter of urgency while the issue is still "live". Could be an excellent and indeed important article, if UKAR is indeed to be seen as the voice of the paying punter on the crowd line. Hold their feet to the fire.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby MiG_Eater on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 1:31 pm

Totally agree. If only because Farnborough is such a special airshow; if anything can be done to at least get the message across it's surely the duty of those who represent this forum (and get the benefits that go along with doing so) to be a part of it.
MiG_Eater

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby pbeardmore on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 1:57 pm

Is it possible they know that their days are numbered due to the flying restrictions and future building in the area so they are just going through the motions? I don't see any signs that the organisers care? They know about all of the issues we have discussed.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Frogfoot on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:00 pm

jules48 wrote:I bet all those who complain now will still turn up in 2020.Perhaps better co-ordination with RIAT may have allowed for more aircraft types.Yeovilton managed to get the Canadian F-18 and French with I assume alot better communication.It appears FIA is only interested in trade days and the public days are just an add on to make more money.If they read their Facebook page I am sure that alot of the comments may be taken on board but don't hold your breath.


The French were confirmed for Yeovilton well before RIAT.
Frogfoot

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:03 pm

pbeardmore wrote:Is it possible they know that their days are numbered due to the flying restrictions and future building in the area so they are just going through the motions? I don't see any signs that the organisers care? They know about all of the issues we have discussed.


It's a situation not unlike VTTS. The enthusiasts are wise to them, but the wider general public who aren't clued up are oblivious and still throw their money away.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:18 pm

MiG_Eater wrote:Totally agree. If only because Farnborough is such a special airshow; if anything can be done to at least get the message across it's surely the duty of those who represent this forum (and get the benefits that go along with doing so) to be a part of it.

What benefits are they?
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby G-CVIX on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:23 pm

I've not been since 2008, and would never attend again. It's time to drop the pretence of any public days whatsoever, run it as a solely trade show with the trade day tickets as they are.

Is it worth is as a trade show, even? How do sales compare to that of Dubai etc?
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby patrouille2001 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:25 pm

I know a lot of people who are complaining about Farnborough, but where else can you see a Spanish Harrier, A350, pacific US Air Force F 16 Demo team, 727 displays. I travelled from Newcastle upon Tyne and was worth it for them items alone.
patrouille2001

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby MiG_Eater on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:29 pm

LN Strike Eagle wrote:
MiG_Eater wrote:Totally agree. If only because Farnborough is such a special airshow; if anything can be done to at least get the message across it's surely the duty of those who represent this forum (and get the benefits that go along with doing so) to be a part of it.

What benefits are they?


Perhaps i'm putting two and two together and getting five, but surely being a 'UKAR Journalist' for want of a better term has some clout in terms of getting media access or getting on-base for certain events?
MiG_Eater

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby G-CVIX on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:33 pm

patrouille2001 wrote:I know a lot of people who are complaining about Farnborough, but where else can you see a Spanish Harrier, A350, pacific US Air Force F 16 Demo team, 727 displays. I travelled from Newcastle upon Tyne and was worth it for them items alone.


Not really sure how that holds up. Yes the Harrier is a rare item but the US F-16 Demo has been seen a fair few times before, and you can see a multitude of other F-16 displays around the country. The 727 can be seen at various shows. The A350 can be seen at trade shows.

An airshow isn't just about a few good items, it's about a set of flying displays, a structured and exciting series of displays, a static display, how the visitor is treated, and value for money.

If it represented something worthwhile to you, fair enough, but to say the event is somehow special because it had a few good items seems short sighted to me.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Big_Gareth on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 2:47 pm

I went yesterday purely for the Harrier. Was the air show worth £40, of course not! But I am really pleased that I put the effort in to go, because I left with photographs of the Harrier that I couldn't get elsewhere. Catching the F-16, A350, 727 and Red Bull stuff that I missed at Legends was a very nice bonus. If it had only cost about £25 then it would have been good value for money. If all of the trade show stuff stayed around for the weekend then it would have been one of the best shows of the year, but I knew what I was going to get long before handing my £40 over.

I was dreading the hustle and bustle of a Farnborough show, but it was very, very quiet, none of the usual stresses or bun fight to get to the front. Many of the families around us thoroughly enjoyed the day and the only complaints I heard from them was due to the lack of the Reds.

Whoever was in control yesterday also deserves a massive thumbs up for rearranging the flight display numerous times and for getting the spare Harrier out of the static park when the first airframe went tech. I very much doubt that the powers that be at RIAT, Duxford Shuttleworth etc would ever have done this and instead the Harrier would simply have scrubbed. Maybe Farnborough just wanted to avoid a further deluge of complaints but they should be commended for bending over backwards to get the star item in the air.

Overall I am not desperate to ever go back (I said that in 2014 also) but having started out with very low expectations I enjoyed yesterday, dare I say it more than my second and third days at Fairford.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Amp on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 3:40 pm

It is a trade show.
Trade was good.
Many locals and enthusiasts got to see and enjoy the show with a number of interesting aircraft.
A few hard-core spotters were disappointed by the 'limited' content a week after the world's leading airshow and Legends.
No one was forced to go.
Amp

Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby techniquest on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 3:56 pm

If all of the trade show stuff stayed around for the weekend then it would have been one of the best shows of the year, but I knew what I was going to get long before handing my £40 over.


This is where it definitely pays to be an enthusiast or otherwise in-the-know. I enjoy aircraft, but I'm nowhere near the level of most enthusiasts, and I went by what the Farnborough website told me in terms of what to expect on Friday. To recap:
"View Farnborough International Airshow’s famous flying display and see the big names in aviation showcase their latest innovations in the air and across the static aircraft site."
"To those that have a real passion and keen interest in aviation, this is an unrivalled opportunity to gain access to the trade show, experience all four exhibition halls and take in the latest technology whilst interacting with industry specialists."
I bought my 'Fab Friday' ticket on the basis that I'd be seeing the big names in aviation; and when I saw what had arrived at the start of the week, I was really looking forward to what could (for me) be a really top-notch show. But as the week progressed more and more of the things I wanted to see left; which was not what I was expecting based on what Farnborough itself was telling me. It is a real shame that I don't have the same knowledge and expectation as some ('effects' for example), but there we are - I trusted Farnborough, which is a trap I shall not fall into again. So no, I won't be rushing back in 2020.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby play it cool on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 5:15 pm

techniquest wrote:
If all of the trade show stuff stayed around for the weekend then it would have been one of the best shows of the year, but I knew what I was going to get long before handing my £40 over.


This is where it definitely pays to be an enthusiast or otherwise in-the-know. I enjoy aircraft, but I'm nowhere near the level of most enthusiasts, and I went by what the Farnborough website told me in terms of what to expect on Friday. To recap:
"View Farnborough International Airshow’s famous flying display and see the big names in aviation showcase their latest innovations in the air and across the static aircraft site."
"To those that have a real passion and keen interest in aviation, this is an unrivalled opportunity to gain access to the trade show, experience all four exhibition halls and take in the latest technology whilst interacting with industry specialists."
I bought my 'Fab Friday' ticket on the basis that I'd be seeing the big names in aviation; and when I saw what had arrived at the start of the week, I was really looking forward to what could (for me) be a really top-notch show. But as the week progressed more and more of the things I wanted to see left; which was not what I was expecting based on what Farnborough itself was telling me. It is a real shame that I don't have the same knowledge and expectation as some ('effects' for example), but there we are - I trusted Farnborough, which is a trap I shall not fall into again. So no, I won't be rushing back in 2020.


There's no real need to buy any airshow tickets without having a good idea of what's attending. Even RIAT, the Saturday of which tends to sell out in June, will have announced most of its aircraft by then. Regarding Farnborough, I went this year because they had a number of aircraft I wanted to see, and I'm glad I did, but there's no way I'd have bought tickets without this knowledge. Having said that, I do buy RIAT and Yeovilton tickets 'blind', but they always have good line-ups.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Jakub.Zurek on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 5:38 pm

Big_Gareth wrote:Whoever was in control yesterday also deserves a massive thumbs up for rearranging the flight display numerous times and for getting the spare Harrier out of the static park when the first airframe went tech. I very much doubt that the powers that be at RIAT, Duxford Shuttleworth etc would ever have done this and instead the Harrier would simply have scrubbed.


Of course the effort to get the Harrier out of the static park was commendable. But fitting it into the flying programme which had massive gaps planned from the get go was surely not that hard ... :tumbleweed:
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Jakub.Zurek on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:14 pm

Amp wrote:A few hard-core spotters were disappointed by the 'limited' content a week after the world's leading airshow and Legends.


I see your point. But look on social media comments from the general public and you'll see it is not just "a few hard-core spotters". Quite the opposite, in fact. I overheard some negative comments throughout the day from people that clearly weren't massive aviation enthusiasts.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby ben888 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:18 pm

Nothing to do with being a spotter or not in my opinion.

It’s to do with massive gaps in the schedule. Was a 40 minute break mid pm. Repeat acts etc.

Been to many Airshows over the years and have a nppl... will never go Farnborough again and as for £69 for a runway enclosure, as I said... feel sorry for the girlfriend who forked out for our 2 tickets to surprise me.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby farnboroughrob on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:35 pm

As a local spotter I had a great time, as a local who wants to encourage the airshow the flying was embarrassing. As a spotter the show provided the local airport watch a free park and view enclosure that was open for 4 weeks and provided some excellent views. There were some lovely aircraft, the MRJ, Ethopian DHC8, Silver and Wings ATR's, USAF C-130's, Red Bulls, Brazilian Lynx, new Gulfstreams to name a few. Add to thats lots of visiting bizjets in the weeks before the show, IL76 and An-12 and it was a real number fest.
The pre build up info was very poor, the flying line up worse. Anybody who things the trade aircraft hang about for the public will be let down. The 747's, CS100, An-124, 777, A350 etc are all loosing money to sit on the deck so they are going to be there for the minimum amount of time. That is never going to change. Buy trade tickets, easy to do and go on Monday, or Tuesday. The same happens at Paris with the trade aircraft.
The show director was new for this year and has no aviation background so that may have a influence. Sadly the show has never been one to engage with the public on any level.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby Webby74 on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 6:36 pm

play it cool wrote:
techniquest wrote:
If all of the trade show stuff stayed around for the weekend then it would have been one of the best shows of the year, but I knew what I was going to get long before handing my £40 over.


This is where it definitely pays to be an enthusiast or otherwise in-the-know. I enjoy aircraft, but I'm nowhere near the level of most enthusiasts, and I went by what the Farnborough website told me in terms of what to expect on Friday. To recap:
"View Farnborough International Airshow’s famous flying display and see the big names in aviation showcase their latest innovations in the air and across the static aircraft site."
"To those that have a real passion and keen interest in aviation, this is an unrivalled opportunity to gain access to the trade show, experience all four exhibition halls and take in the latest technology whilst interacting with industry specialists."
I bought my 'Fab Friday' ticket on the basis that I'd be seeing the big names in aviation; and when I saw what had arrived at the start of the week, I was really looking forward to what could (for me) be a really top-notch show. But as the week progressed more and more of the things I wanted to see left; which was not what I was expecting based on what Farnborough itself was telling me. It is a real shame that I don't have the same knowledge and expectation as some ('effects' for example), but there we are - I trusted Farnborough, which is a trap I shall not fall into again. So no, I won't be rushing back in 2020.


There's no real need to buy any airshow tickets without having a good idea of what's attending. Even RIAT, the Saturday of which tends to sell out in June, will have announced most of its aircraft by then. Regarding Farnborough, I went this year because they had a number of aircraft I wanted to see, and I'm glad I did, but there's no way I'd have bought tickets without this knowledge. Having said that, I do buy RIAT and Yeovilton tickets 'blind', but they always have good line-ups.

Well said, I to went knowing there was enough aircraft I wanted to see both airborne and in the static park. Of course it was nowhere near as good as Yeovilton, RIAT and others, but it never was going to be. It's an expo with a bit of flying added these days
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby lynothehammer on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 8:16 pm

Here's my take on it

Pros

* The static wasn't too bad for photography even though it was a bit all over the place
* Getting in & out of car parks was fine
* Buses taking you from the car parks to the show gates ran very smoothly without any waiting times
* Lots of activities for the kids without loud music blaring out. There was also a temporary play park set up which we found and was a god send for my little one who took full advantage of it.
* Security were absolutely brilliant yesterday, i'm normally the first to slate G4S but they were first class yesterday
* FIA changing the display schedule to drag the spare Harrier over from static to get it to display
* The Flying Bulls & Red Bull Air Race, really pleased they supported the show so well
* The Spanish handing out free Harrier / F35 pin badges out to my little one, he was absolutely made up with them

Cons

* Repeated display items
* Long gaps in the display with nothing happening
* Price of food / drink / Ice Creams (yes I did take food / drink with me but my little one wanting an ice cream and being charged £3 for a single twister is disgusting)
* Toilets or lack of them (but they were at least closer to the crowd line than RIAT.
* The absence of the RAF (a single Tornado on static)
* The lack of freebies / gifts for the little ones. Even stickers had a price, going back to my days of Farnborough as a youngster I'd come home with bags of goodies from he crews.

Putting my parent head on for a moment, £42 for a day out for my son & I isn't really actually that bad. i'd pay double that for somewhere like Legoland and we'd be stood in queues for most of the day. I've taken my 6 year old to RIAT / Legends & Farnborough in the last week or so and out of all 3 of them he said he enjoyed Farnborough the most(mainly because of the variety). He came away happy from it so i also think that was one of the reasons i'm not going to pull Farnborough apart.

Farnborough have been severely hurt by the lack of displays from the Red Arrows / RAF Typhoon d, if you added them to the line up from the weekend then i think most of the punters would have gone home very happy at what they'd seen. It even seemed strange not having the Hornet there, with Farnborough it's just one of the things you expect to see. If you'd added them to the line up then i think most people would feel they've seen an alright show. We all know the reasons for the RAF not wanting to display at Farnborough and i respect that but it would have been nice to have seen a flypast or 2 from the F35 / Typhoon like earlier in the week for the trade days.
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby play it cool on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 8:26 pm

lynothehammer wrote:Here's my take on it

Pros

* The static wasn't too bad for photography even though it was a bit all over the place
* Getting in & out of car parks was fine
* Buses taking you from the car parks to the show gates ran very smoothly without any waiting times
* Lots of activities for the kids without loud music blaring out. There was also a temporary play park set up which we found and was a god send for my little one who took full advantage of it.
* Security were absolutely brilliant yesterday, i'm normally the first to slate G4S but they were first class yesterday
* FIA changing the display schedule to drag the spare Harrier over from static to get it to display
* The Flying Bulls & Red Bull Air Race, really pleased they supported the show so well
* The Spanish handing out free Harrier / F35 pin badges out to my little one, he was absolutely made up with them

Cons

* Repeated display items
* Long gaps in the display with nothing happening
* Price of food / drink / Ice Creams (yes I did take food / drink with me but my little one wanting an ice cream and being charged £3 for a single twister is disgusting)
* Toilets or lack of them (but they were at least closer to the crowd line than RIAT.
* The absence of the RAF (a single Tornado on static)
* The lack of freebies / gifts for the little ones. Even stickers had a price, going back to my days of Farnborough as a youngster I'd come home with bags of goodies from he crews.

Putting my parent head on for a moment, £42 for a day out for my son & I isn't really actually that bad. i'd pay double that for somewhere like Legoland and we'd be stood in queues for most of the day. I've taken my 6 year old to RIAT / Legends & Farnborough in the last week or so and out of all 3 of them he said he enjoyed Farnborough the most(mainly because of the variety). He came away happy from it so i also think that was one of the reasons i'm not going to pull Farnborough apart.

Farnborough have been severely hurt by the lack of displays from the Red Arrows / RAF Typhoon d, if you added them to the line up from the weekend then i think most of the punters would have gone home very happy at what they'd seen. It even seemed strange not having the Hornet there, with Farnborough it's just one of the things you expect to see. If you'd added them to the line up then i think most people would feel they've seen an alright show. We all know the reasons for the RAF not wanting to display at Farnborough and i respect that but it would have been nice to have seen a flypast or 2 from the F35 / Typhoon like earlier in the week for the trade days.


That pretty much sums up my day. Regarding catering prices, it's pretty much what you expect at any airshow now. I rarely buy anything for myself other than the odd coffee once my flask is empty, but jnr usually insists on something. I don't know why the Reds go there at all. It is tantalising for the children and casual observers to see the aircraft lined up right in front of them, and to see them take off and then do just one flypast. What was the point of that? We know they can't do their show, so better not to have them at all really?
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Re: Farnborough International Airshow 2018

Postby effects on Mon 23 Jul 2018, 9:14 pm

UKTopgun wrote:If you are a big Farnborough fan, you might feel in the minority on this site! If you think Farnborough run the weekend show well, then I am bemused!

As I've said before Farnborough is a trade show which means I am able to bimble around and chat to a few people about the latest developments. I would never go on a Saturday or Sunday as the trade has effectively gone, the Friday is a massive con as a majority of the trade pack up Thurs. The cargo village packed up on Wednesday evening at a lightning pace to make way for brooklands. Personally I think they should close the show all day Friday and sort things out properly. There is plenty of room for a decent amount of static. But as plenty have alluded to if people are prepared to pay then FIA will do nothing and count the cash.
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