Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby PeterR on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 9:08 pm

The organising team have asked for feedback. Positive or negative, they're looking to improve, so what did you enjoy about this years show? Any constructive criticism for the team? Post it here.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Luke28 on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 9:23 pm

All in all a great show, my only criticism would be I personally would've liked a couple more fast jets, although I understand that the flying display was crammed full.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby shaggy101 on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 9:28 pm

No complaints from me. Thoroughly enjoyable show :smile: Great job by the airshow team.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Domvickery on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 9:58 pm

Tents & windbreakers on the crowd line for me, (I dont know if this was anything to do with the show) I was near crowd center and there was a huge blue tent about 2-3m in length & about the same in height which then had a windbreaker put up around that with another 2-3 wind breakers either side.

The show itself was great, No trouble getting in or out the ground had a healthy display with the flying having a good mixture of old & new with different types all on show
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Tommy on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 10:10 pm

I thought it was an amazing show.

The flying display was awesome, the P40, Sea Fury, Meteor, Typhoon and VC-10 were brilliant! Something to (which I have no doubt probably has been) consider next year is trying to get a Chinook display back to Cosford, and also what about the Huey or Loach? I know the Huey did a display in '07 I think but those two have to be perhaps one of the most underrated and overlooked acts on the circuit at the moment.

The Jag flight line and taxi was brilliant. Perhaps this could become something synonymous with Cosford shows; Leuchars have the home team take off and beat up or formation or what have you, Waddington has its station flypast, it would be nice if Cosford could start the display with a Jag taxi, I wouldn't imagine that it is weather dependent, and it does provide an insight as to what Cosford's day job is, and it gives us lot here on the forums something to look forward to?

All in all today was superb, the static was well thought and placed, the flying display was nice and varied and I had absolutely no qualms with traffic or anything logistical like that. If the organisers are in doubt over what to do, stick to this years plan and they wont go far wrong.

Great work to the team :clap: :yahoo:
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby DaveBlu on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 10:47 pm

The Show was excellent, well organised and ran smoothly, now here's my Best Victor Meldrew!

Wind breakers and Tents, all along the crowd line, as mentioned above, a complete NO, NO!, these selfish buggers blocked so much out, (The Jaguar, Large Model aircraft, the Pyro's for the battle sim)
Please implement rules stating that they cannot be that close to the crowd line as other shows Do (Fairford) for example,
DaveBlu

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby A40-BP on Sun 17 Jun 2012, 10:55 pm

Can only add to comments already said, it was quite a good day indeed. The Tornado Demo was pretty impressive, apart from the huge explsion during the 'strafing run'! Also well done for securing the VC-10 flypast, as said, a very rare appearance these days. Having not seen the RV8tors before, i wasnt expecting much, but they were actually quite impressive, up until the only heavy shower of the day curtailed that! Disapointments for me were the Typhoon, which tbh isnt being thrown around as much as it could be, and the 'Vintage Pair', I'm sorry but doing one flypast then a break into indivual solo's isnt a Vintage Pair routine! So yes, nothing against the show there. However, one thing show was that did bother me (and I'm not alone here), was the Jaguar's, Tornado, JP's, Sea King and Wessex that were huddled away behind the last hangar again, especially with the space outside the compound where they could have been positioned! Also, Sean Maffett kept saying that the Vulcan was due to display, but couldnt for obvious reasons. Whereas its been posted here that you considered it too expensive.. Also, what was the 'where did that come from?' that was hinted at on the thread here? I couldnt find anything! Lastly, the introduced extra rail services were stopped before the end of the flying display, and by the time the next one turned up, there was over a hundred people on the station waiting to get on a (late) already busy train.

However the Jaguar line up was excellent, the hangar displays were good, the Jaguar taxiing was a treat! Will defo be back next year of you can keep up the superb work :up:

7

Edit- In terms of windbreakers and tents, they dont always bother me, especially when I'm on my own as i was today, but when youve got people putting them up, leaving them and only coming back for about half an hour throughout the whole day, that is taking the pish somewhat...
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby 2e1var on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 6:00 am

Fantastic show, great variety of aircraft with something foe everyone. I even thought the traffic wasn't too bad on way out, we stayed until the end of the flying display and only took about 1/2 hour to exit from the far end. People on the crowd line really were taking the mick with tents/gazeebos/wind breaks etc., this really does need to stop. Only other critisism is the commentary, it was very, very loud which is good but there is no need to prattle on constantly even when nothings happening and hammer out music all day, have a break guys, if there's nothing to say at the time, say nothing !
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby kassy2005 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 6:44 am

It was another great Cosford for my family and I , the children as always loved it and everyone involved with the running of the show were really friendly. Again with the tents and breakers on the crowd line. We were very early to arrive and the crowd line was empty, yet we obviously still pitched our kids pop up tent 20 metres back from the crowd line as we would do at RIAT and could not believe how many ignorant selfish people pitched on the line. The 20 m markers at RIAT seem to work, maybe worth giving that a try next year :)
kassy2005

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby sohvimus on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 9:00 am

Well done. I have no complaints about the organisation or the flying display. I could've done without the rain shower, but unfortunately that's not something the organising parties can change. I really enjoyed my (birth)day at Cosford. :yahoo: And so did my husband and father-in-law.
sohvimus

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby st24 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 9:16 am

Plus-

Static arrangement - much, much better than previous years, good to see the varying Jags out particularly and some thought being put into representative tpes and lack of clutter :clap: .
Good variety of stuff in the flying; very enjoyable, but could hear various mumbles about lack of speed and noise- GR4s and Tiff aside of course.
VC10- wow great to see the old bird in the air again, massive kudos for bagging that, dunnno what you did but why the other RAF shows couldn't, I'll never know.
Traffic in and out was good, though is it just me but did numbers seem down??
Jag taxying- nice to see one live again, excellent to see Cosford's working life represented in the programme- 2/3 Vigilant and 2 Tutor flypast next please.
Hangar and recruitment displays - always very well presented and appreciated.
Individual displays - Sea Fury, Meteor T7, our very own shaft's T3, GR4s, FX glider, P-40 - all great flying...

Minus-
Static arrangement - barriers way too close, bags of room to use but still the a/c were penned in
As mentioned elsewhere, the tantalising glimpses of many more machines tucked away at the NW end that surely could have been parked on the hardstanding nearer to the barrier??
Commentary - ear splitting if you were by a speaker :dizzy: :music:
Commentary - Sean "Vulcan" Maffet waxing lyrical about a display item that was never booked, not flying at the moment.... Every time he mentioned it (and it was a lot!) you could feel people looking, expecting to see it especially if they only cught the word "Vulcan". Unecessary, oh and if we're on the subject of commentating, the Nieuport that was taking such a role in the Great War demo was actually an SE5a replica....Oh and the JP T3 is painted up as the last T3 solo display scheme from 1992, not a team.. :facepalm:

Overall another good family day out and even the weather was okay(ish)... :smile:
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Mixed grill on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 10:27 am

Flying display and static were all very good, something for everyone in the flying a really strong mix. Jaguar taxi run was very nice good to see and of course listen to the Jag again, really hope this is part of the display next year.

The only thing I would say is would it be possible to start the Jaguar up on or closer to the runway next time.

I know the Vulcan was talked about in the commentry but I dont think it was over the top, the more help and support it gets the sooner we get the beast flying again and I'm sure thats what everyone wants.

Only 2 moans from me,

1 - Why do airshows allow people to smoke - its it really safe to have people smoking on an active airbase it would only take one small mistake if the grass had been dry for example and we could have had a nasty fire.

2- Anyone ordering a copy of the airshow dvd in person on the day got a free dvd, but anyone on the day who orders the dvd via a text does not get a free one. That seems a little unfair to me.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Shaft on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 11:05 am

Thank you st24 for your kind words.:)
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby classicaviation on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:32 pm

This was my first year at Cosford as I regulary attend Waddington but the latter clashes with Legends which I certainly will not miss! Overall I was very, very impressed. So much so that I will probably go Cosford again next year rather than Waddington.

Here are just a few bits of criticism:

1. I agree with the point that some static aircraft had barriers far too close to get a decent photo.

2. The tents and windbreaker! Especially with a narrow crowd line like that the obstruct views and consume space. Just rule none at all.

3. The weather ;-)

Aside from that can't really moan. The positives are numerous and I will post a link to my web page review but the ground and traffic control was spot on, great variety in display, ground exhibitions and demos were great, stalls great, facilities numbers were good. If you were catering just for me the display would have more warbirds and classic jets and the finale would be something like the GR.4 role demo rather than two trainers and The Blades. But a great show overall!
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby countermon on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:36 pm

Hello,

I'm not a seasoned airshow afficionado...in fact the last time I attended one was at RAF Gaydon, but thought I'd give a bit of constructive criticism over yesterday's event.

Overall it was very enjoyable and well run, but:

* You may well be losing revenue as I was able to ride my bike onto the airfield at around 0750 and I was not challenged or asked to pay ! Fact was I had a ticket in my pocket, but nonetheless I'm sure others may well have got in for free.

*Totally agree about the selfish so-and-so's who "booked" huge area of the front line by erecting their own shanty town. Agree also re the large numbers of smokers, but that's because I'm an ex smoker. :wink:

*Personally, I felt the show started with a finale ! The assault on the senses provided by the Typhoon made some of the following acts seem unsurprisingly a bit pedestrian.

I'll be back next year though :up: :up: :up:
Last edited by countermon on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Flare Path on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 12:55 pm

- Great show from start to finish. Typhoon and P-40 were fantastic; easily the two best displays of the day. :cool:

- Traffic arrangements were superb; in and out very easily.

Cracking job to all those involved. Roll on next year! :clap:
Last edited by Flare Path on Sat 23 Jun 2012, 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby st24 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:39 pm

Shaft wrote:Thank you st24 for your kind words.:)


That'll be a tenner then :wink: No I mean it, a really nicely presented display with picture perfect (given some sunshine!) top side passes. It was a better display than the up engined T5 flown IIRC by an ex RAF F3 display pilot?? (Still good to see though - got a real soft spot for the JP :love: )

Good point made a couple of times of the running order. Must admit that seeing Tutor, King Air and Tucano as the run up to the Blades as finale did leave me thinking it's a bit wrong way round. I think the RAF trainers are great, I really do but to the great unwashed of the Midlands, they may have had other ideas. :confused: ??
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Tommy on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 1:55 pm

st24 wrote:Good point made a couple of times of the running order. Must admit that seeing Tutor, King Air and Tucano as the run up to the Blades as finale did leave me thinking it's a bit wrong way round. I think the RAF trainers are great, I really do but to the great unwashed of the Midlands, they may have had other ideas. :confused: ??


I had a wonder about this myself. I reasoned that it must have been to do with the traffic, did you see how many people left after the Reds? RJC and I were saying on the fenceline that some people are only there for the Reds and maybe the Typhoon.

Hold those items until the end and the traffic would be horrendous, so have a gradual wind down and then the punters go when they get tired resulting in a nice flow instead of a dam burst? Or at least thats what I reckon?
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby Dollar99 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:23 pm

I thoroughly enjoyed my first Cosford show since the late '70s but agree with the points about the Jaguars and the barriers. Given that there was great enthusiasm from the photographers to the idea to park them so close to those metal barriers and to each other was such a shame. Putting them on a 45 degree axis would have made them even better.

Thought it was strange to park the visiting puddle jumpers in front of the VIP enclosure, especially as it blocked my view of the runway, although there was a nice Jaguar sized hole for a photo of the taxy aircraft. Except he stopped well short of the piano keys and the distinguished former Jag pilot!

All those aircraft tucked away looked interesting. If you fancy the idea of tours up to them for donations to the Fund I'd be happy to volunteer - done it elsewhere and I am ramp trained as are a few others :lol:

Certainly know which end I'd pick for photos next time.

As to the JP display - 'nuff said I'll see you on FB Neil :biggrin:
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby FMS on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 2:29 pm

I thought it was a great show.

What is the policy on the exit to the A464? This is the exit we normally use. When walking back from the display we heard the guard at that exit telling drivers "the public will not be able to use this as an exit". Unquote. It's usually the case, after a wait for the a/c and VIPs to depart that this is used. Being good "public" we exited to the front. When we eventually got to the exit by the station we could see across the field that cars were cars departing from that exit. Please ensure that the staff at this exit are aware of what the policy is and are kept informed of when the exit will be opened.

The 5 - 6 foot high tents, Wind break villages and the Gazebos were a pain. Please think about how you can enforce a no go zone for these items in the viewing area.

It was good to see the effort made to bring more aircraft out on static.

Is it me or did Hangar 4 seemed to be a bit sparse? (We were in there at around half past 8, maybe we were just early ?)
FMS

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby JohnF on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 3:38 pm

Third time I have been to Cosford and thought the flying displays were excellent. Great variety of types and nice to see a number of topside passes from the historic jets and warbirds. As always I spent my day in front of the helicopters which IMO is the best thing about Cosford, the chance to get decent shots of the helicopters taking off/landing. Didn't seem as busy down this end as previous years.

Highlights for me were the Tornado role demo and the Meteor/Vampire. Meteor always gives a fantastic display whatever the venue.

Just a couple of minor negatives from me:
(1) Jaguars. Firstly, it was great to see these on display and the taxying Jag was superb, but did they have to be parked in front of a toilet block. I appreciate space is at a premium but is there not somewhere they could be parked with a clutter free background.

(2) After the show I went to have a look round the museum and the main hangar was closed. Shame it couldn't have been left open a little longer as there were still thousands of people on the airfield.
JohnF

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby paulb1973 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:13 pm

DanO1978 wrote:The Vulcan was never due to display at Cosford this year, even before the engine problems. The organisers took the decision not to book it.


I did think that a little strange, when Sean Maffett mentioned its recent troubles - giving the impression that the Vulcan wasn't there because of these troubles. In-fact, had it been in perfect flying condition, it still wouldn't have been seen at the show. I still had a good day out although the large grass area at the far end (near where the Jaguars are dumped outside furthest from the rail station) wasn't used for car parking - suggesting less attended compared to recent years.
paulb1973

Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby A380FWWOW on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:33 pm

OK well here goes;

1. It was great to see the Jaguars on display outside, however in my opinion the barriers were far to close to them and the aircraft were too close together! However well done for getting them out for us to see. Likewise it's good to know that the Jaguar taxi happened but I missed it!

2. No a usual comment but the tannoy / commentary system could not be heard away from the flightline, surely there should be some speakers in the area's to the rear of the car park, as many people didnt kniow what was happening and when, there was obviously a good point to not hearing what was going on and that was I couldn't hear the errors made by S Moffat!

3. In my opinion it was great to see the traders more spread out than in previous years.

4. The arena was a good point and hopefully that will continue but lets just hope that it doesn't go down the 'TRI@RIAT' route!

5. Now the show has a new organisation team, how about a new commentary team for 2013?

Well Done to the Organisation Team. :clap:
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby D200 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 4:43 pm

I will largely monitor & make note of this thread rather then contribute but already there are a few points raised that I can explain.

The airshow staff have no say in Museum opening hours.

The problem gazebos are noted and we will review options next year, although sadly human beings are a territorial bunch after years of getting up early to mark their turf with beach towels. Signage could be an intermediate solution that we may employ.

Smokers would be impossible to police outdoors and none of the AS staff are smokers or symathetic to the cause. Smokers have right too.

The Jaguar taxi whilst relatively benign is deemed as a sucessfull insight into the workings of Cosford and the good news is that we have been asked formally to consider improving the profile of that next year, perhaps with a pair, but including the start, stop and marshalling instruction that makes their presence at Cosford essential.

We will review and improve the hangar 4 static display next year and possibly place the airfames on the grass. Enthusiasts who tackled the razor wire to collect hidden numbers did your cause no good whatsoever, and the CCTV has them bang to rights. I appreciate that this was a small number, not every enthusiast.

We objected to the program going public in the week leading up to the show and I can tell you that the entire program changed five times in as many days as we accomodated the last minute dot com technical and logistical issues of some display participants.

I have had encouraging feedback from the Cosford staff whose ground display enabled visitor hands on and internally I have been asked to provide practical battle damage repair exhibition that if the H & S police permit, could include visitor involvement repairing bullet holes in aeroplanes. If we can; we will.

For none enthusiasts, it was possibly too long a display. However the advantage of that is a staggered departure allowing realtively quick access to the M54.

The unrestricted access first thing is a major error on our behalf that will not happen again.

The Vulcan commentary was due to the Cosford staff supporting Vulcan XH558 despite not booking it. Contrary to the opinion of some we all support Aviation Heritage across the board without prejudice.

As military aviation reduces in size and increases in operational duties, we may have to visit other aspects of aviation for the static displays. I was surprised at how many private owners wished to display their aircraft and will probably invite owners to apply for static display and see how we can optimise a good static line.

In the final week we only lost four aircraft from the schedule. All four were important elements of our flying / static display, but given the weather up to and including saturday, that is not too bad. Sharp observers may have noticed helicopters on grass with bare concrete in front that was scheduled for the Transall.

Work for next year begins immediately and starts with a theme to work with. Any ideas? 9 June 2013 is the date for your diary.

An enthusiasts area that involves a premium charge but permits an optimum location free of obstructions and a lower crowdline fence is being considered. Friends of Cosford anyone?

The comments on this thread will ALL be noted and discussed, but for reasons of practicality, please keep them new rather then repetitive. Happy to take comments by PM also.
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Re: Cosford 2012 - Your Feedback

Postby TYPHOON3 on Mon 18 Jun 2012, 6:02 pm

A very good show but it does lack a couple more fast jets.Maybe the fact that they can't use Cosford's runway is a factor?With regards tents,gazebos etc I think it should be limited to 4ft windbreaks and nothing else.Maybe a designated part of the display line for people who want to put up tents and gazebo's.Another reason why people put up windbreaks is to stop people podging in front of them.It happened to us last year at Yeovilton,a very rude foreigner sent his kids in front of us and my mom couldn't see.It won't happen this weekend because we will put up a 4ft windbreak!
TYPHOON3

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