Making a good show even better:- 2014

[D200]

The primary crowd line is the western half of the airfield between the Cosford Club and the VIP hospitality. For decades up to twenty light aircraft have been parked airside here obstructing the view of thousands of people. There will not be any non-participant aircraft parked in this area next year and participant aircraft will be dispersed in order to maximise the viewpoint at ground level. Few people object to having a Spitfire in the way but there will not be a Cessna or Piper next year.

The aspiration not to have gazebos on the crowd line was a partial success this year which we will continue to promote in 2014.

There will be other changes for sure but now is a time for consolidation, review and recommendation rather then knee-jerk reactions to an epic year with unique problems. The nearest campsite is miles away, and we are looking to have this addressed within the immediate area for people to pre-position locally.

I would be grateful if people could keep this thread to constructive recommendation bullet points rather then opinion about opinion and moaning.

[westhamfan84]

Hey could Cosford not become a 2 day show. Would that not help with traffic as people would have 2 days to choose from also I remember a couple of years back Sunday weather was alful and Saturday was lovely. As for making the show even better i would love to see more jets and also a more international feel to the flying display.

[Maisie]

The primary crowd line is the western half of the airfield between the Cosford Club and the VIP hospitality. For decades up to twenty light aircraft have been parked airside here obstructing the view of thousands of people. There will not be any non-participant aircraft parked in this area next year and participant aircraft will be dispersed in order to maximise the viewpoint at ground level. Few people object to having a Spitfire in the way but there will not be a Cessna or Piper next year.

The aspiration not to have gazebos on the crowd line was a partial success this year which we will continue to promote in 2014.

There will be other changes for sure but now is a time for consolidation, review and recommendation rather then knee-jerk reactions to an epic year with unique problems. The nearest campsite is miles away, and we are looking to have this addressed within the immediate area for people to pre-position locally.

I would be grateful if people could keep this thread to constructive recommendation bullet points rather then opinion about opinion and moaning.

This is an absolute must, I will even volunteer for the day to tell people to move them or take them down! It was that bad (hate to have seen it in previous years if this was good?) that it has made me not want to go next year.

I'm serious about the volunteering too, I'm only local so it's not out my way.

[judgejefferys]

Firstly, congratulations on the success of this year’s show. After 35 years of attending Air shows , this was my first visit to the Cosford show. With a combination of an advanced ticket, leaving early for a 3 hour trip and a lot of hard work by the air show team it made for a great day.
However I must agree with Maise regarding the furniture problem. It was the first thing i noticed when i approached the crowd line. Chairs are not a problem, as long as the owner sits in it, but Gazebos, sofas, Umbrellas the size of the O2 Arena, 12 seater dining tables and wind brakes creating an oversized privacy barrier for their selfish owners should not be acceptable. If you agree this is a problem, then i would suggest you make the area behind the white line a little wider with a few more signs to say what the line is for and also make the line a lot clearer, maybe a different colour. I’m sure some of the furniture lovers were unaware of the line. See you next year.

[Domvickery]

I wont comment on the traffic even though I, well my car suffered the most because of it.

I'd like some more noise & afterburners in the flying. Thats about it, the ground displays were fantastic. Maybe have 2x jag taxi runs or one in the middle of the day

[Luke28]

I wont comment on the traffic even though I, well my car suffered the most because of it.

I'd like some more noise & afterburners in the flying. Thats about it, the ground displays were fantastic. Maybe have 2x jag taxi runs or one in the middle of the day

That would turn Cosford from a very good show into a great show in my opinion.

[TYPHOON3]

I said before the show it lacked fast jet action.The Tornado role demo was missed this year so if that came back on the circuit for 2014 and if they could get just one F16 from somewhere or one other foreign fast jet solo, would be great.Either ticket entry only or making it a two day show would help the traffic problems.I can't see any other way of improving the traffic problems otherwise apart from crap weather which is obviously what we don't want.Could switching the show from Sunday to Saturday( like Yeovilton) help?I think a two day show sounds better though.Windbreaks,Gazebo's and large umbrellas should not be allowed on the display line.This rule should be enforced and if not adhered to ejected from the show.Maybe this would help the traffic-if I can't take my gazebo and/or windbreak I am not going! some people might think.

[Sundowner]

I'd like to see all the food/refreshment vans and trucks positioned another 20-40 foot back away from the crowd line, I know that we really need them up there but if they were a little further back it would help with the congestion caused by folks queing up for a burger/ice cream or whatever, also the extra viewing angles (if that's the right term) gained would be a very welcome feature as nobody likes it when your favourite item is suddenly obscured by a truck or something like.

[stevebrodie]

Regarding seats its a bit of a dilemma ; some people can just not physically stand for the whole display - old/infirm etc - some just out for the day, and naturally get up when the 'good stuff' shows up and i can understand people putting 'low' height windbreakers up to create a little area - stops their children wondering around the display line getting in the way of photographers. I have sat at front before and people have literally climbed over my feet to stand in front of me to get a photo, or get into a small gap between the family. We never used to stop any children who were struggling to see from standing in front of us.

As for getting into the show, from peoples comments it seemed to be an issue after getting past the ticket booths and going into one or two lanes, could you not utilise the runway from say 8am - 11am and have cars taken thru the gates and fed straight onto the runway - how many lanes would you get - 6/7/8? they then queue down the runway to the far end where they then go through the ticket booths and are then fed back down the grass to where they entered and filtered into the carparks, just like queuing for a ride at Disney World, you get traffic off the road and onto the base,where it could be managed more effectively. just a crazy thought

Quick bit of maths - cosford runway 1mile and 200ft wide take average car width 6ft add 2ft for good measure = 22 cars across* (average car length 4.2m add in a bit more at 6m, divide 600m by 6m = 100 cars) equals 2200 cars!

[D200]

That one (cars on the runway) is an easy one to answer. The theory is excellent, however we would at some stage have to stop the traffic and sweep the runway before permitting any aircraft to operate from it. Foreign Object Damage, or FOD, (small stones from car tyres) kills engines, especially with intakes close to the ground like a Jet Provost. I am afraid it is impractical to implement.

Without revealing ideas that have not yet been staffed correctly, I can say that there are options for change that are practical. These however need to be considered with our feet firmly on the ground for any change inevitably creates a concertina effect on other factors. 2013 is similar in many aspects to 2009, however the three intervening years were very different; some would say, 'normal'. Now the new team have, in my opinion, raised the bar on the overall quality of the show particularly regarding ground and arena displays. There is scope to improve these further which is indicative of us setting a new base line. Which in turn means we need to nail the traffic problem or we are wasting our energy. This is where the focus of our attention will lie in the coming months, because the planning for the 2014 event has already started.

We need to keep our fingers crossed that air shows will remain in 2014 and beyond as we are not immune from sequestration in the manner that has cursed the USA. The only UK air show that is safe in my opinion is Farnborough, and then only because it is a business showcase. Air Shows for entertainment alone are on very tacky ground this side of an economic recovery, and once gone, are almost impossible to resurrect.

To dispel some rumours: We cannot demand international participation, nor can we purchase it. The loss of the Tornado role demo hurts; but it is what it is, and there is nothing we can do about it. This year Cosford lost King Air, Hawk, Tutor and Tornado pair, yet we still put on a show with a wide scope of appeal. This is what Cosford is all about, leaving warbirds to Duxford and Shuttleworth and FJ to RIAT, Waddington and Leuchars. We are always on the look out for innovative ideas (and flypasts) and will continue to do so. Given that we have no toys to barter with, we do pretty well.

[capercaillie]

Another Jaguar taxi run at the end of the display could be good, with the light having moved behind the crowd by then but I'm guessing the runway is needed at that point firstly for clearing the GA visitors and then the alternative exit on the opposite side.

A couple of museum exhibits outside the hangars for photos would be good, I know its happened before with Bristol 188 and TSR2, but would it take a lot of effort for say the Jaguar ACT or Hunting 126 moved outside with just the hangar doors behind for a few shots? Genuine question, not sure how static some items are these days (Cold War hangar accepted ).

The camo Jaguars outdoors were great, but purely from an enthusiast point of view, is there a possibility if this is repeated, the ones chosen to go in the blast pen are all ex Germany squadron marked machines? We had a 14sqn marked one there with the 20sqn one a little further down, two 17sqn ones were used in the hangar displays this time.

But overall as a family airshow, something for all, well laid out, well done.

[Maisie]

I'd like to see more hides if possible?, love that GR.3 one! Second on the comment on Museum stuff brought outside too?


Chas, I'll reply to the PM soon too

[D200]

If you promise not to tell anyone, I will let you into a little secret:

I already have two hides! ....and amongst many other things, 2014 is the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the Kestrel. To develop the Harrier hide further will depend upon the support of the RAFM in loaning their GR9. I already have a GR9 Recce pod. I did say that the organisation for the 2014 event had already began, but when we are dependent upon third party support, we cannot make any promises. If my aspiration reaches fruition, the GR3 / 9 / & newly restored Kestrel will all be together in a joint display, with two of them inside hides and I may have enough metal planking to give the Kestrel a VTOL pad.

If I dont get a Spanish or Italian Harrier in the flying display, it will not be for lack of effort.

[Flare Path]

If you promise not to tell anyone, I will let you into a little secret:

I already have two hides! ....and amongst many other things, 2014 is the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the Kestrel. To develop the Harrier hide further will depend upon the support of the RAFM in loaning their GR9. I already have a GR9 Recce pod. I did say that the organisation for the 2014 event had already began, but when we are dependent upon third party support, we cannot make any promises. If my aspiration reaches fruition, the GR3 / 9 / & newly restored Kestrel will all be together in a joint display, with two of them inside hides and I may have enough metal planking to give the Kestrel a VTOL pad.

If I dont get a Spanish or Italian Harrier in the flying display, it will not be for lack of effort.

Great to see the aspiration for next year.

It's also the 50th anniversary of the Red Arrows in 2014.

[Maisie]

If you promise not to tell anyone, I will let you into a little secret:

I already have two hides! ....and amongst many other things, 2014 is the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the Kestrel. To develop the Harrier hide further will depend upon the support of the RAFM in loaning their GR9. I already have a GR9 Recce pod. I did say that the organisation for the 2014 event had already began, but when we are dependent upon third party support, we cannot make any promises. If my aspiration reaches fruition, the GR3 / 9 / & newly restored Kestrel will all be together in a joint display, with two of them inside hides and I may have enough metal planking to give the Kestrel a VTOL pad.

If I dont get a Spanish or Italian Harrier in the flying display, it will not be for lack of effort.

[D200]

It's also the 50th anniversary of the Red Arrows in 2014.

Thankyou for that. Anyone else got suggestions for nex years themes. I know the other air show spies will collectively clock onto your suggestions, but hey.... We are first!!

[Maisie]

Would it not be possible to have a RAF C-17 parked up open for people to look around? Or is space an issue? I understand one can get into Cosford though...?

[PeterR]

The only place a Globemaster can park at Cosford is the runway, so that's an issue really!

[Maisie]

The only place a Globemaster can park at Cosford is the runway, so that's an issue really!

Solves that one then!

[Flare Path]

It's also the 50th anniversary of the Red Arrows in 2014.

Thankyou for that.

You're welcome, Chas. In addition, 2014 also marks 100 years since the outbreak of the First World War. Maybe instead of inviting the Great War Display Team, the organisers could think outside the box? There's a very nice Nieuport 17 French biplane, which would look marvellous either flying or static.

Not sure whether there's scope to include anything 'significant' in the flying display for the Red Arrows, but I thought I would mention it anyway. The obvious port of call would be to have another well known aerobatic team added to the flying display, or perhaps a special flypast for the Reds. Either way, I look forward to the results next year.

Great to see the Cosford team have such lofty ambitions for 2014. Well deserved, in my opinion. I think we can all agree that a Spanish or Italian Harrier would be quite something! Keep up the great work.

[Mooshie1956]

2014 anniversary's as mentioned 100 years for the start of the Great War. 8th June 2 days after the 70th anniversary of D Day. The idea's below are more for families rather than enthusiasts
A nice re enactment of a battle for the beaches, use a para drop behind enemy lines of course things would need to be condensed but I'm sure you could think of a good idea how to implement it. I don't know if the Dakota can be used to do the para drop. Get the Buchon from Duxford to beat up the Dakota and a Spitfire the chase off the Buchon.
A nice display by the Great War display team to commemorate WW1. I don't know how much effort it would take but some sort of WW1 trench display, something similar to the Afgan village that was done this year.
I don't know if it's possible but could you make the back entrance ticket only ?. Put someone at the end of the single track road at the A5 I think it is to make sure people going down have tickets. Signpost accordingly on M54 etc.
As said the Harrier in the hide was great, Jag taxi run, again was great to see. These would be nice to see again.

[Flare Path]

Whilst we mustn't get carried away, it doesn't do any harm to suggest certain participants. For example, we may have a Canberra on the circuit next year. In addition, I think the Sea Vixen could be a real crowd pleaser - surely not long left for her. However, I would imagine this rests largely on the Vulcan booking. Cosford has always had a connection with the classical jet scene in the UK and I would hope the Vixen or Canberra aren't excluded from these discussions.

Amazing how the success of the last few years has now thoroughly warranted these type of suggestions - credit to the team.

[Luke28]

If you promise not to tell anyone, I will let you into a little secret:

I already have two hides! ....and amongst many other things, 2014 is the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the Kestrel. To develop the Harrier hide further will depend upon the support of the RAFM in loaning their GR9. I already have a GR9 Recce pod. I did say that the organisation for the 2014 event had already began, but when we are dependent upon third party support, we cannot make any promises. If my aspiration reaches fruition, the GR3 / 9 / & newly restored Kestrel will all be together in a joint display, with two of them inside hides and I may have enough metal planking to give the Kestrel a VTOL pad.

If I dont get a Spanish or Italian Harrier in the flying display, it will not be for lack of effort.

If you and the team pull that off it would be a great coup, fair play for the effort and trying

[st24]

If you promise not to tell anyone, I will let you into a little secret:

I already have two hides! ....and amongst many other things, 2014 is the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the Kestrel. To develop the Harrier hide further will depend upon the support of the RAFM in loaning their GR9. I already have a GR9 Recce pod. I did say that the organisation for the 2014 event had already began, but when we are dependent upon third party support, we cannot make any promises. If my aspiration reaches fruition, the GR3 / 9 / & newly restored Kestrel will all be together in a joint display, with two of them inside hides and I may have enough metal planking to give the Kestrel a VTOL pad.

If I dont get a Spanish or Italian Harrier in the flying display, it will not be for lack of effort.

A credit to you for being so open and up front about your aspirations and thanks for sharing them. 2014 is also NATO's 65th so, what you need to do is get everything out of the cold war hangar on static!

[D200]

If anybody knows the whereabouts of a GR3 centre-line Recce pod, please let me know. They are like chickens teeth.