Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby frank on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:11 pm

PeterR wrote:Interesting array of opinions and thoughts, so thanks for them. :up:

I actually did a poll of a similar topic on Twitter yesterday, asking if people thought "jet trucks, aircraft vs car races and related activities have a place at airshows today." 65% of responses were against these 'side attractions', but it should be remembered that most of the people completing the survey were likely enthusiasts. However there was also discussion that such diversification sometimes enhance events and flying displays. Actually my final year project at university (AKA Dissertation) which I am currently writing the proposal for will tackle this issue and the state of the UK airshow industry as a whole but that's a different topic... The whole team at RAF Cosford remain dedicated to delivering the Midland's premier aviation event and whilst I agree attracting rare and exciting aircraft to the show is essential to this, we must also remain open minded to provide enjoyment for all the family and keep innovating in the entertainment side of airshows.

Back on topic; there will be more details about the RAF Cosford Air Show 2016 announced in the next few weeks so keep your eyes peeled! :ninja:


One of the things I have noticed when they have "stuff" happening on the ground is that spectators further back cant see what`s going on and/or there is a push to the front to see. So I personally don't like these kinda of things for that reason.
frank

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby davidjones533 on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 12:34 pm

TYPHOON3 wrote:
Harvo266 wrote:Peter, I know its probably not possible especially with ops in Syria, but if you could get an RAF Tornado GR4 in the flying display, my ticket will be booked this week, as i'm sure many others would!

No he can't because there is no RAF Tornado GR4 display next year.The only Tornado(s) you will see are the Cosford based statics.The only very small chance of a flying Tornado would come from the Italian RSV.Maybe ask Peter to invite that ?


There was no Tornado display last year either, but I do recall seeing one or two in the air at RIAT...
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Thu 10 Dec 2015, 2:38 pm

Already nominated above, but I'd love to see the Bronco demo team at Cosford, and can't disagree on the Alizé.

Throughly appreciated Rich Goodwin this year, it would to great to have him back, and how about the Red Bull Matadors or even Patrouille Reva to display something a little out of the ordinary among the civvie teams.

The Belgian Red Devils showed well at Cosford, so maybe the FAF could send Cartouche Doré..?

but all that aside, I'm sure a well rounded display from helicopter to reheat and all points in between will be as entertaining as ever. :cool:
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby boff180 on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 10:44 am

Always thought Patrulla Aspa would look good on the Cosford display line :-)
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby DerekF on Mon 14 Dec 2015, 12:01 pm

frank wrote:One of the things I have noticed when they have "stuff" happening on the ground is that spectators further back cant see what`s going on and/or there is a push to the front to see. So I personally don't like these kinda of things for that reason.


It was like that this year when the Jaguars were on the runway. Only a fairly small percentage of spectators could see anything.
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Tommy on Mon 14 Dec 2015, 8:17 pm

DerekF wrote:
frank wrote:One of the things I have noticed when they have "stuff" happening on the ground is that spectators further back cant see what`s going on and/or there is a push to the front to see. So I personally don't like these kinda of things for that reason.


It was like that this year when the Jaguars were on the runway. Only a fairly small percentage of spectators could see anything.


Well, yeah, given that they're at ground level, unless the entire crowdline is a grandstand! :grin:

I like those kind of things happening. It fills the gap when there's no flying, and are usually quite early in the morning, before the real hustle and bustle on the crowdline starts, and it's nice to see more to do with the day jobs of the people actually at Cosford, and it whets the appetite for the flying.

Plus.... live(ish) Jags! :love:

For me, it's better than nothing, which IIRC, is what there used to be, bar the odd GA arrival! :smile:

Using the live Jags as an example, I'm not sure what solution there could be for people at the back not seeing stuff on the ground, and I don't think that just because those at the back can't see, it's justification for the removal of the feature/segment/whatever. :dunno:

People have asked on here for the Jags to taxi at the show for years, indeed, I remember Chas/D200 made quite a deal of it when the show first started doing it back in 2012, and rightly so. :smile:
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby DerekF on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 7:49 am

Oh don't get me wrong - it would have been nice to see live Jaguars but it also has to be appreciated that the vast majority of the crowd couldn't see anything. Would I miss it if it wasn't in next years show? No, you can't miss what you never saw in the first place.
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby davidjones533 on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 12:35 pm

For me, the Jag taxi run is one of the real highlights of the show and something you simply don't get anywhere else. I've only been to a Cosford show twice, and was gutted the when I missed them in 2014 - but not because I couldn't see, but because I didn't know it was happening and was in one of the hangars at the time. Didn't make the same mistake last year!

Not sure about the comments that you can't see. There's been plenty of space down the eastern end of the crowdline for the past two years - people just seem to prefer to stand 20 deep at the centre.
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby DerekF on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 12:55 pm

Well if the entire crowd went to the eastern end then the same problem would arise. All I'm saying is that ground-based items have limited scope at airshows. That's all. Far better replaced with a flying item that everyone can see rather than just those that have camped at the crowdline since the gates opened.
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby davidjones533 on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 7:03 pm

The entire crowd doesn't have to move, just spread out a little. I had no problem getting a spot on the second row just 30 minutes before the flying was due to start.
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Tommy on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 8:43 pm

DerekF wrote:All I'm saying is that ground-based items have limited scope at airshows. That's all. Far better replaced with a flying item that everyone can see rather than just those that have camped at the crowdline since the gates opened.


True, ground-based items do have limited scope at an airshow, but so-long as they don't take place at the expense of the flying display, then they can add to it well.

As I said, taking the Jaguar taxi demo, before Cosford started making that a part of the display, the time when it's usually on (circa 10.00am, IIRC?) never had any flying during that time apart from the odd arrival (which still happens anyway between the Jaguar taxi demo). So if one wanted to get rid of said taxi demo, it wouldn't be replaced with any flying in the show's current format.

Where I do agree with you, is that ground-based displays shouldn't take place at the expense of any flying, but that's different from at Cosford where, as I repeat the above, no display flying took place in that slot anyway.

Therefore, unless the argument is for Cosford to increase the length of the flying display, then, to me at least, the taxi demo is a decent and efficient use of time, which doesn't compromise any flying display time, where there would otherwise be little/nothing going on (static park notwithstanding), and, perhaps most importantly, educates those who CAN see it about the role Cosford plays as part of the RAF, and what SoTT do.

As I said before, I'm not sure what the solution would be to the problem, though.

On the point (as if anyone's still listening to me rambling on!), some shows combine a ground-based display really, really well. The first example I can think of would be the Cosby Victory show, which has a full-scale land battle, and then an air display, at two different points on the showground, which does cause a bit of an exodus, but the point is that people enjoy both elements, even if it is difficult to see the land battle...

I dunno... maybe I need some more mulled-wine.... :dunno: :cuppa: :grin:
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby PeterR on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 9:57 pm

Evening All! :wave:

Coming back on some of the feedback presented:

davidjones533 wrote:There was no Tornado display last year either, but I do recall seeing one or two in the air at RIAT...

Even though there is no longer a dedicated 'display' or 'role demonstration' available for the type, events can still bid for the Tornado GR4 to participate in the form of static display or flypast. Obviously we can't have the aircraft static at RAF Cosford (but we do have a couple of Tornado GR1 which will be). For the last 3 years the show has applied for Tornado GR4 flypast but sadly never been successful due to the high tempo of operations that the fleet is undergoing. I imagine that trend will continue for 2016.

Wrexham Mackem wrote:I'm sure a well rounded display from helicopter to reheat and all points in between will be as entertaining as ever.

It's reassuring to see that so many of the international display items I included on our invitation lists have been specifically mentioned in this thread, we must be doing something right! Our aim when it comes to both international military displays and civilian acts too is to give exactly what you have described, a varied mix of aircraft together to fulfill our aims. Obviously in with that mix we will focus on our key themes both with individual displays and interesting set pieces. Unfortunately it's now the long waiting came until April/May to see what international support we receive!

DerekF wrote:Far better replaced with a flying item that everyone can see rather than just those that have camped at the crowdline since the gates opened.

The Jaguar taxi-demonstration costs us £0.00, if you can find me a flying display item that costs the same I'll take you up on it! In all seriousness though, the ground display from the Jaguars showcases the daily work at RAF Cosford, is something unique to the show and is something that is highlighted as a positive for many of our visitors. Granted not *everyone* can see it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason not to have it. The only decision that needs to be made on the demonstration for 2016 is which airframes to use...

G-AMPY wrote:Gannet please..! :up:

Rest assured it is being considered! I started work on it roughly four hours after their Facebook post reference Farnborough but we shall have to wait and see what develops of the proposed tour.
PeterR

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby DerekF on Wed 16 Dec 2015, 7:56 am

PeterR wrote:
DerekF wrote:Far better replaced with a flying item that everyone can see rather than just those that have camped at the crowdline since the gates opened.

The Jaguar taxi-demonstration costs us £0.00, if you can find me a flying display item that costs the same I'll take you up on it! In all seriousness though, the ground display from the Jaguars showcases the daily work at RAF Cosford, is something unique to the show and is something that is highlighted as a positive for many of our visitors. Granted not *everyone* can see it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason not to have it. The only decision that needs to be made on the demonstration for 2016 is which airframes to use...


It's good that jet fuel costs so little or do the Jaguars use something else? I'm glad some are getting excited about Jaguars taxiing - if seeing retired aircraft taxiing is a highlight then airshows are not what they used to be. Maybe I'm just getting old....
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DerekF

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Wes_Howes on Wed 16 Dec 2015, 9:52 am

DerekF wrote:
PeterR wrote:
DerekF wrote:Far better replaced with a flying item that everyone can see rather than just those that have camped at the crowdline since the gates opened.

The Jaguar taxi-demonstration costs us £0.00, if you can find me a flying display item that costs the same I'll take you up on it! In all seriousness though, the ground display from the Jaguars showcases the daily work at RAF Cosford, is something unique to the show and is something that is highlighted as a positive for many of our visitors. Granted not *everyone* can see it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason not to have it. The only decision that needs to be made on the demonstration for 2016 is which airframes to use...


It's good that jet fuel costs so little or do the Jaguars use something else? I'm glad some are getting excited about Jaguars taxiing - if seeing retired aircraft taxiing is a highlight then airshows are not what they used to be. Maybe I'm just getting old....

I think the point Peter is trying to make here is, the cost of the fuel is not coming out of the airshow budget.
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Flare Path on Wed 16 Dec 2015, 10:37 am

German Army Bo 105. :biggrin:
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Stagger2 on Fri 18 Dec 2015, 4:36 am

Cynicism & old-age are inextricably coupled my dear DF. The 'Fact' is, that Air-shows will never again be what they were! I work on the old principle that if something is no longer enjoyable to you.... Do it no longer!
Better to stay at home & reminisce on the 'good old days' maybe? If you can't 'see good' in anything, it pretty much makes no difference where you stand!
Stagger2

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby craig.mason on Tue 09 Feb 2016, 8:24 pm

I will be happy if i see apache demo team eurofighter bbmf anything else will be a bonus
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Pringles on Mon 25 Apr 2016, 8:45 pm

Recently I was reminded how much I REALLY want to see the Supermarine Seafire LF III at Cosford, easily a star item for me for the already impressive line up! :biggrin:

What are the odds of it displaying, Peter?
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby craig.mason on Tue 26 Apr 2016, 9:09 am

I saw Seafire MK III PP972 at Duxford flying legends cracking display
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Adamwilliams132 on Thu 26 May 2016, 9:30 pm

The Vampire that's been announced for wellsbourne would make a great addition to the jet engine theme.
Adamwilliams132

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Pringles on Thu 26 May 2016, 10:07 pm

Adamwilliams132 wrote:The Vampire that's been announced for wellsbourne would make a great addition to the jet engine theme.

Was just thinking that! Great way of splitting costs :whistle:
Still waiting for the Seafire and Blenheim though Peter chop chop :grin:
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Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Adamwilliams132 on Fri 27 May 2016, 6:19 am

Pringles wrote:
Adamwilliams132 wrote:The Vampire that's been announced for wellsbourne would make a great addition to the jet engine theme.

Was just thinking that! Great way of splitting costs :whistle:
Still waiting for the Seafire and Blenheim though Peter chop chop :grin:


From what I've read on Facebook it's not displaying at wellsbourne. Just arriving and departing the show. Not sure how this effects its ability to display elsewhere during the day.

Also the SWAHF !!
Adamwilliams132

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Slappywag on Fri 27 May 2016, 7:39 am

Adamwilliams132 wrote:
Pringles wrote:
Adamwilliams132 wrote:The Vampire that's been announced for wellsbourne would make a great addition to the jet engine theme.

Was just thinking that! Great way of splitting costs :whistle:
Still waiting for the Seafire and Blenheim though Peter chop chop :grin:


Also the SWAHF !!

They are not displaying in the UK this year.
Slappywag

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Timc on Fri 27 May 2016, 8:28 am

Slappywing wrote:
They are not displaying in the UK this year.


Depends on whether you class Jersey, being a Crown Dependency, as part of the UK?
Timc

Re: Cosford 2016 Wishlist?

Postby Pringles on Fri 27 May 2016, 9:40 am

Adamwilliams132 wrote:
Pringles wrote:
Adamwilliams132 wrote:The Vampire that's been announced for wellsbourne would make a great addition to the jet engine theme.

Was just thinking that! Great way of splitting costs :whistle:
Still waiting for the Seafire and Blenheim though Peter chop chop :grin:


From what I've read on Facebook it's not displaying at wellsbourne. Just arriving and departing the show. Not sure how this effects its ability to display elsewhere during the day.

Yes not long after I posted that I realised that especially given the new CAA rules a lot of work and money would need to go into oranising a display, from pilot hours to insurance costs
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