RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Forum for information about the annual show at RAF Cosford
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cg_341
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by cg_341 »

No because then you don't sell tickets. Marketing 101, once someone has bought something they don't matter ;)

Spotty_Jag
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Spotty_Jag »

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TYPHOON3
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by TYPHOON3 »

J.C Photography wrote:I'm probably going to ditch Cosford for Weston now given that they both have similar line-ups and Cosford is going to cost me 4x as much as Weston will. The only disadvantage of Weston is that the display line is a little distant.

If you can get over to Steep Holm(the island that lies off Weston)almost every display flew right over the top in 2016.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by J.C Photography »

Hampshire Aviation wrote:No because then you don't sell tickets. Marketing 101, once someone has bought something they don't matter ;)


Do you see the Yeovilton organisers creating hype over possible foreign participation? Are their ticket sales being affected? In some ways I like what Peter is doing, but it can be a bit risky!

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Pringles
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Pringles »

Spotty_Jag wrote:
J.C Photography wrote:Is it not better to keep quiet on possible participation until it's 100% confirmed​?

Well the Airshow hasn't announced any participation until it is 100% confirmed, so I'd guess they're following that principle? :dunno:

But the team on Facebook have explicitly suggested to at least one member of the public to expect "at least two jets", Peter has on numerous occasions suggested we'll see foreign fast jets, and yet there is no sign publicly of that being the case. To deliberately discuss the course of ongoing negotiations and perhaps exaggerate their success in the hope of selling tickets is unprofessional, and not something that we see the likes of Tom and the DBH team doing. It builds us up for a fall if our expectations are unfairly raised :cuppa:
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speedbird2639
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by speedbird2639 »

and not something that we see the likes of Tom and the DBH team doing


Yeah coz you need loads of hype when the FRIAT sold out in February, Saturday tickets are close to sold out already and Sunday will be sold out well before the show.

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Tommy
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Tommy »

Pringles wrote: To deliberately discuss the course of ongoing negotiations and perhaps exaggerate their success in the hope of selling tickets is unprofessional, and not something that we see the likes of Tom and the DBH team doing. It builds us up for a fall if our expectations are unfairly raised :cuppa:


Two things;

1) "to ... perhaps exaggerate their success in the hope of selling tickets"

Careful with that, mate. You may or may not have a point on the issue of "hype", but alleging an exaggeration of success to sell tickets is tantamount to an accusation that the team are lying. I'm sure it's not what you mean, but that's how it reads. Be careful with the wording of how you put your points.

2) "it builds us up for a fall if our expectations are raised"

I don't really agree with you on the extent of this "hype" business, but even if I did, I don't know about you, but I'm mature enough (apparently :-X ) not to be too overly bothered about stuff like that. Surely you know enough about airshows to know that nothing's truly confirmed until it's announced by the show itself, and nothing's truly truly confirmed until it has landed (and/or in Cosford's instance) has commenced its display. Anything outside of official announcement from the show, to me, is cool, but not taken as written.

I care about airshows, of course I do. I get excited by rumour, but I don't "expect" things, either, until they are announced by the respective shows.

What are the organisers to do? Not say a word about how negotiations are going? Several years ago that used to happen, and organisers were lambasted for not being transparent enough to their customers. Now it's the other way around and we're complaining about too much information? :dunno:

Anyway, tin hat back on. :hide:

FWIW - great additions today. Good flying displays, good statics - can't recall last time a Defender or a Puma was on static at the show.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by J.C Photography »

I have to admit, there are some gems within the Cosford line-up that I probably won't see anywhere else this year (not bad considering I'll be attending about 7 shows). It's just the fact that Plymouth is a long way from Cosford, so I really need to consider whether such a tedious trip is really worth it. I'm aware that's probably the case with a lot of people on here as well.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Cole »

Adamwilliams132 wrote:Who put 50p in the idiot ? Hampshire aviation am I not allowed an opinion? I want to see jets of any shape and sizes at Cosford not just the normal stuff that's there year In year out.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Cole
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Cole »

G for George wrote:I think this year's lineup is looking very promising, with a few weeks still to go. I remember years gone by when we had in this country a much larger air force, with many more different types than can be called upon today. Since RAF aircraft numbers and types have dwindled over the years, organisers have obviously had to look elsewhere, and consequently we have seen a different type of airshow emerge. I personally have enjoyed seeing a variety of items, recent highlights being the Canberra and oil spill response (was it a 727?). But the thing is, Cosford has been like this for a good few years now. Line ups like a couple of years back, with the Hornet, Fighting Falcon (and the cancelled RD and MiG) should be viewed as a welcome exception to the rule, surely all the organisers can do is invite different air arms, and await their response? If invitations are turned down, I don't see what more the organisers can do. All I've got to do this year is make sure I avoid the dreaded car park number 7, plonk my bum in a deckchair, and enjoy.


It was a 727, Infact the last 727 ever built. :smile:
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PeterR
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by PeterR »

Pringles wrote:It builds us up for a fall if our expectations are unfairly raised :cuppa:

Well some forum members built their own hype, only weeks ago on this thread, with their own expectations of (for example) a Hungarian Gripen display, and then complained when it wasn't announced. So we can't win either way can we? At least when I give you snippets of information, I actually know what's being worked on. My posts were only intended to keep the pitchforks at bay as discussion on the forum slipped yet again to "only one fast jet at Cosford, worst show ever." I will now refrain from offering such reassurance to the forum, and hope that you all have the patience to wait and see what is delivered on Sunday 11th June, without the doom and gloom posts that have frequented this thread.

speedshrew wrote:Quester for Peter-are there slots per aircraft or does each one get a different amount of time in the air? Curious as to how these things work.

Each participant has their own slot time which their display fits to. Military items being strict PDAed sequences, so we know the Typhoon is an 8-minute airborne slot. Civilian items can vary, but generally we allocate the time period that a particular display item will request, but this varies on many factors such as if the aircraft is including take-off and landing as part of it's display, or needs an airborne hold etc.

Adamwilliams132 wrote:I'm sure on the 11th of June there's at least one serviceable airframe of most types the RAF has in service in the U.K. So why aren't they down for flypasts and static?

If only it was that easy Adam.....
But in all seriousness, we're working with lots of Squadrons but their availability and approvals won't be finalised until June. As I've said before in this thread, remember last year the A400M & C-130J flypasts were only confirmed in the week prior to the Air Show.

Tommy wrote:FWIW - great additions today. Good flying displays, good statics - can't recall last time a Defender or a Puma was on static at the show.

Glad someone appreciates a nice static display...

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Ian G »

I really don't get all this moaning about Cosford! With the best will in the world, it's always been 'behind' the bigger shows of the year and hasn't always regularly attracted the international or more usual airshow participants that other shows have, year on year. What is has done, which it is doing again this year, is bringing in niche acts which you can't see anywhere else which is a very good thing!

As mentioned again and again and again, due to its location there is a unique catchment of people who will come to Cosford for a family day out. They don't really care what is flying, as long as something is! The hardened enthusiast is and always will be in the minority. Again, that's not necessarily a bad thing, the wow factor of the showground and the airshow spectacle itself is a great inspiration to young minds and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter who comes, as long as the tickets are sold and funds are raised!

Even though it's 15 minutes down the road for me, it is very seldom that I go (perhaps 3 times in the last 20 years, last time was when I won tickets in 2015) as I felt that what was on offer was poor value for money compared to shows like Waddington etc. plus you were shooting in to the sun all day, the crowd line gets cramped, getting out has always been a nightmare and you missed the spectacle of the majority of aircraft taking off and recovering after a display, none of which will ever change at this venue! Museum pieces and instructional airframes dragged out as 'static' cop-outs don't interest me either. Please bear in mind that this is MY opinion only. Put in to perspective, I am sure a 6 year old about to clamber in to the cockpit of a Jaguar would be in complete awe!

Even with the prospect of national or international FJ participation, I won't be going however, do I think it is a bad show? No. The organisers do seem to be really unlucky with aircraft serviceability and particularly the weather, things that are out of their hands. It could happen - and does happen - to other shows, it's just that here they've had more than their fair share. Looking at what is appearing this year, you can't deny there is quite some variety, something which Cosford invariably does manage to do, one way or another. Just because a forum member is a part of the organising team doesn't mean that the enthusiast has to be explicitly catered for.

What gets me is that all of this is not new. I don't know why people are suddenly expecting Cosford to be something that it traditionally is not. Why do we have to have the same moaning every year? Perhaps the organisers do set the bar high and get people's expections up? Perhaps enthusiasts here see the words 'airshow' and expect everything available to turn up? I don't know.
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by capercaillie »

Which is all absolutely true and perfectly correct and cannot be disagreed with.

The issue remains however that this is now the sole RAF organised airshow, and as a showcase for the current RAF, they don't seem to be particularly interested. :dunno:
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Lucasjmet15 »

No matter what Peter and the Team book for the show there will always be people who want to moan and complain about it. I personally cannot wait for the show and I enjoy the subtle hints that the organizers and dropping. If people want to complain then they can do... Just not in this forum ! :lol: :up:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Luke28 »

Lucasjmet15 wrote:No matter what Peter and the Team book for the show there will always be people who want to moan and complain about it. I personally cannot wait for the show and I enjoy the subtle hints that the organizers and dropping. If people want to complain then they can do... Just not in this forum ! :lol: :up:


And there will always be people that will moan about people moaning :up: :up:

Sundowner
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Sundowner »

I will be going to the show as usual, some stuff I like and some I don't, but I always find Cosford a good day out, for me personally it's the whole "experience" of the day both flying and ground displays.
The only real gripe I have is not for the organisers but the RAF bigwigs who can't/won't commit aircraft for their own only RAF base display.....Operational commitments my arse, they would soon find some for a royal flypast or summat such but their own folks.....no they would rather basically just give them a slap across the face and say sorry but you're just a small insignificant station.

Just my opinion here.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by AngryAndyPandy »

Sundowner wrote:Operational commitments my arse


What knowledge is it that you have on opertional commitments? Do you have an insight into what it is the RAF is doing with each aircraft type at any given time of the year? :question:

I can understand the gripe, but what you've said is ludicrous. There's an awful lot more that falls under "operational commitements" than what might be understood by the public, including training pilots, keeping trained pilots proficient, support missions to here there and everywhere, various coalition exercises, BAP etc etc. As much as I'd love to see everything in the RAF inventory out and about, it's just not gonna happen. Rant over.

The Puma on static is a great catch by the way and is certainly something I've not seen on the ground before. :clap:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Sundowner »

AngryAndyPandy wrote:
Sundowner wrote:Operational commitments my arse


What knowledge is it that you have on opertional commitments? Do you have an insight into what it is the RAF is doing with each aircraft type at any given time of the year? :question:

I :clap:


I have about as much knowledge as any other member of these boards, just not a member of the UKAR back slappers club.. :dummy:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by AngryAndyPandy »

Sundowner wrote:
AngryAndyPandy wrote:
Sundowner wrote:Operational commitments my arse


What knowledge is it that you have on opertional commitments? Do you have an insight into what it is the RAF is doing with each aircraft type at any given time of the year? :question:

I :clap:


I have about as much knowledge as any other member of these boards, just not a member of the UKAR back slappers club.. :dummy:



So it's fair to say you proabably don't know as much as the "high brass" of the RAF, as they are so often referred to. In which case slating them for claiming operational commitments over airshows is a poor way to vent frustration.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by jalfrezi »

Sundowner does have a point though, the top brass will bend over backwards for a Royal flypast, operational commitments or not, but not for the tax payers who pay for the RAF.

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by AngryAndyPandy »

jalfrezi wrote:Sundowner does have a point though, the top brass will bend over backwards for a Royal flypast, operational commitments or not, but not for the tax payers who pay for the RAF.


So what are you saying exactly? Is it that you expect participation from the RAF because you pay some taxes (or words to that effect) or that because Lizz gets to see planes you should too? Those who are serving in the forces themselves pay taxes too but someone has to work to get these aircraft to shows so who gets the green end of the deal. These same people are the ones who are supporting the various operational commitements, which means people need to be drafted out and away from "operations" just to allow us to see an aircraft at an airshow.

Maybe I'm blowing this up a bit, I apologise. I know it's frustrating and I see where you're coming from but to criticise something that, realistically, we know little about based on nothing more than assumption is rediculous. :confused:

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by spellow3010 »

To be fair, you can all go and see a Royal Flypast along the Mall for free...
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by borismorris »

What RAF aircraft is it that folks are demanding to see at Cosford anyway??

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by davidjones533 »

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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Post by Adamwilliams132 »

borismorris wrote:What RAF aircraft is it that folks are demanding to see at Cosford anyway??

No
One is demanding anything, I would like to see a C-17, C-130, A-400m and voyager all doing flypasts (more than one quick pass like in previous years) why can't these be tied in with training flights ? No
Display required just that they do a few passes. Also I'd like to see a Tonka doing a few flypasts also. At a push I'd like to see an E-3 also. Won't include the airseeker as we only have one and I understand this may be operational.

Also is there any news on polish participation? The first page of this thread has a post from
Peter saying they intended to support the show this year.

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