RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Xray833 on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 7:17 pm

I still think theres Harriers and Jaguars on that base which could be serviced and permitted to fly again - even if for just one summer. :s[/quote]

Presumably you have several million pounds, a dedicated group of engineers, qualified display pilots and the support of the CAA and MAA for just the one summer ?

Sorry, as much as we would all like, it just isn`t going to happen.
Xray833

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Lucasjmet15 on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 7:35 pm

borismorris wrote:
Lucasjmet15 wrote:Maybe reading into it too much but just looked through the programme again and seen the F35 on the poster for next years show !

Fingers crossed ! :drool:


The commentator fellow was really hammering home the RAF anniversary too, which I took as being a hint that the RAF would be supporting their own show next year... (ok-supporting it more).

I still think theres Harriers and Jaguars on that base which could be serviced and permitted to fly again - even if for just one summer. :s



Not a chance but maybe an Indian airforce jaguar ?! (*hint hint*) :lol:
Lucasjmet15

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Pringles on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 7:36 pm

borismorris wrote:I took as being a hint that the RAF would be supporting their own show next year... (ok-supporting it more).

Would a pleasant change :whistle:
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Pringles

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Lucasjmet15 on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 7:58 pm

Pringles wrote:
borismorris wrote:I took as being a hint that the RAF would be supporting their own show next year... (ok-supporting it more).

Would a pleasant change :whistle:



Not this again... :grin: :grin: :-X :-X
Lucasjmet15

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby borismorris on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 8:00 pm

Xray833 wrote:I still think theres Harriers and Jaguars on that base which could be serviced and permitted to fly again - even if for just one summer. :s


Presumably you have several million pounds, a dedicated group of engineers, qualified display pilots and the support of the CAA and MAA for just the one summer ?

Sorry, as much as we would all like, it just isn`t going to happen.[/quote]

Do you not think that the RAF has such expertise to pull it off? I get that it is highly unlikely the point I was making was that there will never be a better time or place.

Saying "sorry it just isn't going to happen" is what we all think but if ideas are never floated then nothing would ever get done. I also see no reason why a well supported properly managed project wouldn't get past the CAA/MAA..

As for "millions",How far off flight ready do you really think the Cosford Jags are?
borismorris

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby borismorris on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 8:03 pm

Not this again... :grin: :grin: :-X :-X[/quote]

I know, sorry for dragging it up.. :whistle: :grin: :facepalm:
borismorris

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby aviodromefriend on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 8:15 pm

borismorris wrote:As for "millions",How far off flight ready do you really think the Cosford Jags are?
Further then G-VLCN has ever been since the RAF delivered it to the Waltons at Bruntingthorpe.
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aviodromefriend

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby maltwoser on Sat 17 Jun 2017, 9:42 pm

Do you not think that the RAF has such expertise to pull it off?


No, they don't. And if they did, which operation, front line squadron or OCU should we release the manpower from?
Or should they do it all for free in their own time?
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maltwoser

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Xray833 on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 9:08 am

Saying "sorry it just isn't going to happen" is what we all think but if ideas are never floated then nothing would ever get done. I also see no reason why a well supported properly managed project wouldn't get past the CAA/MAA..

There is a difference between reasonable, possible ideas and "pie in the sky". We can all dream and then there is reality. As for the approval for such a project from the CAA and MAA perhaps you might like to have a word with them.
Xray833

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Spotty_Jag on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 9:19 am

11 months is a pretty unrealistic timescale for a return to flight for such a complex airframe. :surrender:
Spotty_Jag

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby borismorris on Sun 18 Jun 2017, 9:35 am

Ok ok sorry to dare to suggest such an extreme idea. :surrender: :roll:

It does suprise me though that in an environment such as this, that such negativity breeds.

Negativity/reality the same thing? I suppose in this case it is...I just think it's a shame that the opportunity exists but wont even so much as be explored.

Quite literally a grounded idea :(
borismorris

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Flare Path on Mon 19 Jun 2017, 10:31 pm

Hopefully, this doesn't sound overly critical to what was a very entertaining show, with a superb flying display curated by the hardworking Cosford team. Unfortunately, having been present at both Duxford and Shuttleworth in the weekends previous, I was deeply disappointed to see that this show was the worst offender in terms of display distance from the paying public - this wasn't just about the farce with the Red Arrows display axis; sadly, this was extremely widespread from start to finish and left me questioning whether there's a deep lack of co-operation with other events in terms of the correct safety distance, because this was as bad as I remember it ever being at a Cosford show - how closely would other shows work together? The disparity between the events I attended in the weekend previous and this was huge.

Perhaps, using the Fly Navy event as a comparison is unfair, but even Duxford had issues, but not at this level - on the topic of the poor Typhoon display at Duxford in May, the RAF have moved individual display aircraft further away from the crowdline it seems - irrespective if other acts have or haven't. This being an RAF show seemed to be a combination of all the wrong things.

It may well be, I was spoilt by the magnificent Shuttleworth a week earlier, but thinking about it more closely it does seem the changes from an RAF level to display flying are very wrong indeed.

The Puma being parked in front of the Cosford Club for the majority of the flying was a poor move and I caught non-enthusiasts visibly annoyed, some shouting expletives, and that made for a concerning atmosphere. Perhaps not as bad as the stunned silence for the Red Arrows, however...

This was a strong line-up, but it missed quite a few important goals compared to other events around the country. Hopefully these can be addressed for 2018, but I leave 2017 feeling very mixed, indeed.

PS: The BBMF 4-Ship display was absolutely incredible and huge respect to them for getting all four aircraft to Cosford in those blustery conditions.
Flare Path

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Pringles on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 9:28 am

Peter R wrote:...the Vintage Village exhibitors were told not to pack-up until 19.00, so they were a little naughty disappearing before that. We're taking the feedback onboard to make sure they're not packing up early again next year.

Just seen Peter posted this on a photo thread and it reminded me of a question that I had after the show: what were the expected finish times for the STEM exhibits and all of the hangar displays? Last year I was able to walk from the crowdline at the end of the show and have a mooch through all of the hangars, have a go at some of the activities and just enjoy a general look around. This year by the time I got there (at the same time) everything had been packed up and one hangar only had a table and a Honda Jazz in it! Was it planned for everything to have been put away by then or was that different for this year - if it was a planned decision then I question the logic as I'm sure some of us would have welcomed the opportunity to look round the hangars while the traffic dissipated?
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Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby DerekF on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 9:37 am

I suspect part of the problem may be the fact the show is on a Sunday. The folks at the Raytheon were very aware of the fact that they had to pack up and get everything tidied away to be away at a reasonable time as most had work the next day.
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DerekF

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby PeterR on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 2:59 pm

Afternoon All! :wave: Thought I'd take some time out from paying invoices, writing thank-you letters, and collating lessons identified to answer some of you comments/questions/complaints about the show.

davidjones533 wrote:
RinkyDinky wrote:TORNADO ids (Italian) did a rather for very laid back routine ALL slow passes well space apart No high energy passes or turns; it only used its speed & afterburners when it was far out (and i really do mean far away in the distance well away from the airfield ) i hope this isn't the affect of the new safety regulations and if it is, then it doesn't bear well for an exciting & dynamic displays in the future at UK airshows
I think this is due to the small size of Cosford's new display box - hence why the Reds and Typhoons are having to display a few miles away.

Nope... the Tornado on Friday was simply an airfield familiarisation whilst enroute to RAF Shawbury. :surrender:

Lucasjmet15 wrote:So no more aircraft due in today's which means that either the 146, griffin and Jupiter are flying in tomorrow which is highly unlikely or they're not coming. Sadly I think it's the the first second one! :down:

32(TR) had a priority tasking for their aircraft come through on Friday, which meant they had to pullout sadly. Jupiter/Griffin were also cancellations that came to us on Friday, due to unserviceability.

davidjones533 wrote:Shame the O-2 had its covers on all day, but just a minor niggle.

They were removed during the day, before being reapplied by the crew during the afternoon.

capercaillie wrote:Just on that point alone, the Italian Tornado clearly performed a half Cuban over the edge of Albrighton, over the sports club/roses place, so not only did it not avoid the town, it performed aeros there.
Incorrect. FCC were monitoring both the Validation and Display with eagle eyes, including staff off airfield, to ensure no aerobatics were performed over areas they shouldn't have been.

spellow3010 wrote:In previous years (though can't recall at Cosford per se) the Falcons do a line a up and then the transport aircraft comes in for a 'low' fly past that signifies the team's salute to the crowd. Any reason why the aircraft couldn't do that?

That used to happen when they used a RAF jump platform. Now with civilian operators their pilots are not authorised with the correct DA etc to perform the post-jump flypast.

lappup wrote:Only problem was that someone decided to park a Puma right in front of the Cosford Club which meant that we couldn't see the majority of the pyros to the full effect and blocked the view of the runway.
Our apologises for this, an error in communication on our behalf, it should not have put directly infront of the Cosford Club, and we will ensure this doesn't happen again in future. But at least you got to see an RAF Puma HC2 flying, a rare sight these days!

lappup wrote:There was a huge 'press area' inside the enclosure to which a mass contingent of 10 photographers sat - was that size an area really necessary??

Worth noting that this area was an expansion to the Cosford Club, not taking anything away from the garden space available. We will be re-evaluating the size required for 2018.

scottspencer wrote:What happened to the AW189 that was announced and in the flying timetable?

Sadly Bristow informed us in the week leading up to the show that they were no longer able to support. A hazard with such machines who have other priorities...

Flare Path wrote:Questioning whether there's a deep lack of co-operation with other events in terms of the correct safety distance, because this was as bad as I remember it ever being at a Cosford show - how closely would other shows work together?

Well there's a rule book, and we stick to it! The separation distances required by the Military Aviation Authority are clearly laid on out in RA2335, which is our bible so to speak. The only change with us is that our 150m display line is actually at 155m to align with the runway edge, but I very much doubt you can tell the difference! Another example is the fact that many civilian items, using The Blades as an example, have a CAA Waiver to fly closer than the standard separation distance outlined in the regulations. However, these CAA Waivers are not currently accepted by the MAA and therefore they must fly on the correct line for their category at a military event like ours, which was the 230m line.

Pringles wrote:What were the expected finish times for the STEM exhibits and all of the hangar displays? Last year I was able to walk from the crowdline at the end of the show and have a mooch through all of the hangars, have a go at some of the activities and just enjoy a general look around. This year by the time I got there (at the same time) everything had been packed up and one hangar only had a table and a Honda Jazz in it!

All exhibitors/traders both outside and in hangars are instructed to remain in place and open until 7pm. Obviously that didn't happen this year, we are aware and working to make sure this doesn't occur in future years.

Finally, and most importantly, please could everyone who attended the Air Show please head to complete the official Air Show feedback questionnaire: http://www.cosfordairshow.co.uk/survey.php and this will ensure your voice is heard and we can continually make the show better. Big year in 2018...


Cheers,
Peter :wave:
Operations Manager
RAF Cosford Air Show
PeterR

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby rob68 on Tue 20 Jun 2017, 10:35 pm

Peter, 2018, could you put in a request for the local ish live Harrier GR3 to taxi down to the show?
rob68


Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby capercaillie on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 8:03 am

Wes_Howes wrote:How would you get it there??


Taxi it of course, some people do ask silly questions. :roll: :grin:
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capercaillie

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby capercaillie on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 9:34 am

PeterR wrote:
capercaillie wrote:Just on that point alone, the Italian Tornado clearly performed a half Cuban over the edge of Albrighton, over the sports club/roses place, so not only did it not avoid the town, it performed aeros there.
Incorrect. FCC were monitoring both the Validation and Display with eagle eyes, including staff off airfield, to ensure no aerobatics were performed over areas they shouldn't have been.

Cheers,
Peter :wave:
Operations Manager
RAF Cosford Air Show


You're absolutely right, it was of course a quarter clover into an undercarriage down pass. I'd suggest the FCC head to Specsavers before next year's display. Perhaps they could rewatch the video on youtube from Planes TV of the routine and then reassess that the Tornado wasn't overflying Albrighton and performing vertical aeros? :dunno:
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capercaillie

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Pringles on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

capercaillie wrote:
PeterR wrote:
capercaillie wrote:Just on that point alone, the Italian Tornado clearly performed a half Cuban over the edge of Albrighton, over the sports club/roses place, so not only did it not avoid the town, it performed aeros there.
Incorrect. FCC were monitoring both the Validation and Display with eagle eyes, including staff off airfield, to ensure no aerobatics were performed over areas they shouldn't have been.

Cheers,
Peter :wave:
Operations Manager
RAF Cosford Air Show


You're absolutely right, it was of course a quarter clover into an undercarriage down pass. I'd suggest the FCC head to Specsavers before next year's display. Perhaps they could rewatch the video on youtube from Planes TV of the routine and then reassess that the Tornado wasn't overflying Albrighton and performing vertical aeros? :dunno:

Or indeed take a look at some of the photos here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=77645 :whistle:
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Pringles

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby AFKAMC on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 12:25 pm

PeterR wrote:Finally, and most importantly, please could everyone who attended the Air Show please head to complete the official Air Show feedback questionnaire: http://www.cosfordairshow.co.uk/survey.php and this will ensure your voice is heard and we can continually make the show better. Big year in 2018...


Hi Peter,

Could be just me, but the survey doesn't seem to be working. Clicking "Next" on the first page seems to open a blank page with no way of progressing further?
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AFKAMC

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby cg_341 on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 12:34 pm

Once you click next, you need to scroll right the way back up to the top of the page - there's a lot of white space at the bottom of page 2 for some reason.
cg_341

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby AFKAMC on Wed 21 Jun 2017, 12:40 pm

Hampshire Aviation wrote:Once you click next, you need to scroll right the way back up to the top of the page - there's a lot of white space at the bottom of page 2 for some reason.


Ah, got it, thanks!
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AFKAMC

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby DerekF on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 6:47 am

Survey done. No prizes for guessing what I was critical of. Many others too I suspect.

Surprised there hasn't been an official UKAR review yet? Is there one on the way?
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DerekF

Re: RAF Cosford Air Show 2017 - [Main Topic]

Postby Pringles on Thu 22 Jun 2017, 7:09 am

DerekF wrote:Surprised there hasn't been an official UKAR review yet? Is there one on the way?

Could be a while yet, I believe we're still waiting for a report of the F35 deployment from April :grin:
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