US Mil

[RIAT Air Ops]

Guys,

Can I ask you a favour? Please can you not pester the USAF folks too much. They are very busy people who do the best they can to satisfy the requests of a great many airshows around the world. They are incredibly supportive of RIAT and keep in regular contact with us. If something is allocated, we will publish it. We don't hide things away, after all, as a pre-sale ticket event it is our interest to get the information out there. I would be really grateful as it saves a lot of confusion, time and effort for all concerned.

Many thanks,

Rob.

PS: New update next week...if I remember correctly?!

[Manonthefence]

Mods

Can this be a sticky please

[MartinNeedham]

Mods

Can this be a sticky please

What Mr Blacow said, certainly makes sense to do so.

[jetwash]

Sorry.....I emailed the last week....

[Russ]

Topic now a sticky.

Thanks Rob. I think we can safely assume that the new unwritten rule is that any member who from this moment onwards, needlessly pesters the USAF/USN regarding participation will have their UKAR membership terminated.

If Rob has felt the need to raise it, it's clearly become a significant issue and I hope it hasn't compromised any potential participants.

[EMarsh]

Sad it had to come to this, but it needed to be said. Hopefully the message coming from someone from within the organisation will deter people from feeling the need to take matters into their own hands in future.

If Rob has felt the need to raise it, it's clearly become a significant issue and I hope it hasn't compromised any potential participants.

Indeed.

[APG]

Its very depressing when the organiser has to make a thread like this.

The spotters should be grateful for whatever turns up and not feel its their right to expect an air arm to send an aircraft, or hassle them about what their plans are

[DanO1978]

I will echo and endorse Russ's comments about zero-tolerance action to be taken against members who do this sort of thing.

As with the recent spamming of the Yeovilton threads by some (mainly children, it must be said) members of the board, we Mods ask you to be vigilant and bring to our attention anything which requires acting upon, as we're unable to be in every thread at every hour of night and day.

[DanO1978]

I think its a good call to ask to stop people from pestering the various Mil operators, but banning people who do it, seems a tad excessive.

What people do away from this forum is nowt to do with anyone else, be it stupid or not, As long as they are not using the UKAR name. If they think they must know before everyone else then let them live their little 'oneupmanship' fantasies.

I would suggest most do it to be able to post the info on forums like this to "point score". And it's not just the children who do it either.

[Manonthefence]

While I agree with Dunk to a certain extent, it is an issue that some of us have been concerned about since it started to happen. The fact that RIAT Ops have brought it up means that are concerns are not entirely unfounded.
Sadly experience shows that some people will not get the message unless there is some form of sanction threatened against them. I for one agree with the Mods in this case.

[boff180]

Whilst I 100% agree that pestering the authorities or organising bodies for information should be condoned and discouraged.

Members of display teams that join forums such as UKAR and others do so with the full knowledge that they are opening themselves to queries regarding their displays and their locations. Infact, many do join for that very reason; to discuss their displays and to put themselves out to the overall enthusiast community.

I think it is therefore important to distinguish between the two; if the information has been freely given by a member of a team that is the member of a forum such as UKAR via that forum then this is perfectly valid information. Its no different to asking Light Blue Spy/Gareth or any of the other lads a question here on the forum.

However, if the person has deliberately emailed an organisation such as the ACC to try and get the information. They aren't members of a public forum and will get annoyed at constant pestering that they haven't put themselves forward for. Their email addresses is for official business only and pestering via these email addresses is reckless. This what should be discouraged.

Just my two cents.

Andy

[DanO1978]

Whilst I 100% agree that pestering the authorities or organising bodies for information should be condoned and discouraged.

Members of display teams that join forums such as UKAR and others do so with the full knowledge that they are opening themselves to queries regarding their displays and their locations. Infact, many do join for that very reason; to discuss their displays and to put themselves out to the overall enthusiast community.

I think it is therefore important to distinguish between the two; if the information has been freely given by a member of a team that is the member of a forum such as UKAR via that forum then this is perfectly valid information. Its no different to asking Light Blue Spy/Gareth or any of the other lads a question here on the forum.

However, if the person has deliberately emailed an organisation such as the ACC to try and get the information. They aren't members of a public forum and will get annoyed at constant pestering that they haven't put themselves forward for. Their email addresses is for official business only and pestering via these email addresses is reckless. This what should be discouraged.

Just my two cents.

Andy

I'd don't think anyone's confusing the two at all. The problem is members emailing/hassling air arms about sending aircraft to airshows, in particular RIAT. Display "teams" will tend to have a PR officer, so the "enquiries" are less of a problem, its the unsolicited messages to the military asking about non-display team front line hardware which we need to clamp down on.

[121decimal5]

After some of the unwarranted abuse aimed at the USAF by certain posters on this site in the past, regarding for instance the Thunderbirds, I think we all should be grateful the USAF participates at all.

[AlexC]

After some of the unwarranted abuse aimed at the USAF by certain posters on this site in the past, regarding for instance the Thunderbirds, I think we all should be grateful the USAF participates at all.

Good point. I'm very happy to see the Thunderbirds any time.

Must admit that I had no idea that this degree of pestering (or any pestering at all for that matter) goes on.

[Manonthefence]

After some of the unwarranted abuse aimed at the USAF by certain posters on this site in the past, regarding for instance the Thunderbirds, I think we all should be grateful the USAF participates at all.

There is quite a difference between posting an opinion on an internet forum and pestering people at their place of work to the extent that it disrupts their day job.

[121decimal5]

121decimal5 wrote:
After some of the unwarranted abuse aimed at the USAF by certain posters on this site in the past, regarding for instance the Thunderbirds, I think we all should be grateful the USAF participates at all.

There is quite a difference between posting an opinion on an internet forum and pestering people at their place of work to the extent that it disrupts their day job.

Yes there is, and there is also a difference between posting an opinion and being downright derogatory and offensive. A lot of the comments following the Thunderbirds appearance at RIAT 2007 were definitely in the latter category and I think the people who made them should feel ashamed of themselves. One of the worlds leading national air display teams came over here and performed in less than perfect weather and gets slated left, right and centre for quite frankly no real reason other than a misguided sense of national pride. That stinks and you know it does.

[Bjcc]

121.5

Firstly, the US champions itself on the right to free speech, are you suggesting that they would be against that very right being used, just because some, by no means all of the comments were critical of the Thunderbirds?

Are you seriously trying to suggest that a Nation state lacks the maturity to accept crictism? Or that like everyone else on the planet, they don't realise that not everything they do is perfect?

Using your logic, the RAF wouldn't display at airshows, the Vulcan would stay firmly parked on the ground, the list goes on for ever. People are entitled to an opinion, you clearly didn't like the ones expressed over the Thuderbids, well, you get days like that.

As it happens I am one of those who wasn't impressed the Thunderbirds, that is covered in the thread on the subject, so there is no point in repeating it again. Suffice to say though, that I do object to you assuming the reason is one of National Pride, when it was based on completly different reasoning.

[Manonthefence]

121.5

That may or may not be the case (everyone is entitled to their opinion). But it has nothing to do with contacting an air arm so often that an airshow organiser feels the need to request that it stops. Which is what this thread is about.

[121decimal5]

Bjcc, no I am not suggesting a nation state lacks the maturity to accept criticism. If you had read and understood my previous post you might have picked that up. What I objected to was the nature and spirit of a lot of the comments following 2007. Hardly gentlemanly conduct. A simple "their show wasn't as good as I hoped" would have been sufficient instead of some of the comments made. On the one hand there are a lot of posters complaining about the lack of airshows/participation and on the other hand when an overseas performer turns up they get slagged off, quite often by the same posters complaining about the lack of participation.

Why "using my logic" would the RAF not display at airshows? By the way, that's not a question I expect to see answered here because as Manonthefence says that isn't what this thread is about.

It seems you have a right to criticise airshow performers and yet I don't have a right to criticise you. I'll wager you have spent a lot less effort perfecting your "kraft" than any airshow performer.

Again this isn't what the thread is about so I shall leave it there.

[Badgernelms]

Patince to these people who send many messages, I am confident that the USAF will soon confirm a strong line up for RIAT 2009 as they have done for many years. Im confident it will be in the next 10 days.

[Abingdonman]

I have to say I wouldnt have went to a few shows in the past had I known there wasnt a couple of my faves displaying (Lightning,F104 or Phantom)
Its human nature to want to see your favourites!
So In 70s I actually wrote to a few further off bases to get confirmation of my faves,and whats more I had written replies from them all...one even sent me the flying programme,bless them
...theses days its no so difficult with the internet,all we had in 70s was the Mags to rely on!....but I can see for some,one or two USAF displays will make the difference from good to great!

[TomG]

Patince to these people who send many messages, I am confident that the USAF will soon confirm a strong line up for RIAT 2009 as they have done for many years. Im confident it will be in the next 10 days.

US Air Combat Command
B-1B Lancer , 28 BS, 7 BW NATO 60th
B-52H Stratofortress, 2 BW NATO 60th

US Air Education & Training Command
T-1A Jayhawk 99 FTS NATO 60th
T-43A Gator 12 FTW NATO 60th

US Air Force Reserve Command
B-52H Stratfortress 93 BS NATO 60th
C-130 H Hercules 914 AW NATO 60th
C-17A Globemaster III 310 AS, 349 AW NATO 60th
KC-10A Extender 514 AMW NATO 60th

US Air Force Special Operations Command
MC-130E Combat Talon I 919 SOW NATO 60th
MC-130H Combat Talon II 352 SOG NATO 60th
MC-130P Combat Shadow 352 SOG NATO 60th

US Air Forces Europe
C-130E Hercules 37 AS, 86 AW NATO 60th
F-15C Eagle (x2) 48 FW NATO 60th
F-16CG Fighting Falcon (x2) 31 FW NATO 60th
KC-135R Stratotanker 100 ARW NATO 60th

US Air National Guard
KC-135R Stratotanker 171 ARS, 127 Wing NATO 60th

Looks pretty strong to me already............................

[AlexC]

Still can't resist making mountains out of molehills I see Bjcc. 121decimal5 began by remarking factually that some people had made discourteous comments about the Thunderbirds, nothing more, nothing less.

[Bjcc]

Alex

Oh you do make me laugh, read what last comment was. That we are 'lucky' the USAF still turn up. Luck has nothing to do with it. I think you will find that your comment was rather 'less' of a summary of his words, and therefore, what he said was something, 'more'.

[Badgernelms]

Patince to these people who send many messages, I am confident that the USAF will soon confirm a strong line up for RIAT 2009 as they have done for many years. Im confident it will be in the next 10 days.

US Air Combat Command
B-1B Lancer , 28 BS, 7 BW NATO 60th
B-52H Stratofortress, 2 BW NATO 60th

US Air Education & Training Command
T-1A Jayhawk 99 FTS NATO 60th
T-43A Gator 12 FTW NATO 60th

US Air Force Reserve Command
B-52H Stratfortress 93 BS NATO 60th
C-130 H Hercules 914 AW NATO 60th
C-17A Globemaster III 310 AS, 349 AW NATO 60th
KC-10A Extender 514 AMW NATO 60th

US Air Force Special Operations Command
MC-130E Combat Talon I 919 SOW NATO 60th
MC-130H Combat Talon II 352 SOG NATO 60th
MC-130P Combat Shadow 352 SOG NATO 60th

US Air Forces Europe
C-130E Hercules 37 AS, 86 AW NATO 60th
F-15C Eagle (x2) 48 FW NATO 60th
F-16CG Fighting Falcon (x2) 31 FW NATO 60th
KC-135R Stratotanker 100 ARW NATO 60th

US Air National Guard
KC-135R Stratotanker 171 ARS, 127 Wing NATO 60th

Looks pretty strong to me already............................

I mean a FLYING my airshow friend, Most are static at present!!