Thoughts on the show.

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stonesfan
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by stonesfan »

speedbird2639 wrote:I think the rule has to be - dont attend RIAT when the nations that normally attend are tied up in dubious overseas situations -


Yet Yeovilton managed to produce a display that won nothing but praise from those who attended. This is despite the situations abroad.

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jesterhud
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by jesterhud »

Dont think its fair to say the fast jets couldnt be bothered to go up, I was listening on the scanner and the F-16 was told he couldnt go up and to go back and shut down.
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techniquest
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by techniquest »

Just a thought about the difficulties and problems re-arranging fying displays. By simply keeping an eye on the BBC weather forcasts on TV and also XC Weather here on the interweb, I knew that the weather today would be rubbish in the morning and sparkling in the afternoon about 48 hours ago. Simple, basic meteorology.
I assume (maybe wrongly) that a major organisation like RIAT would have access to the very best forcasting tools, almost minute by minute. So could there not be a contingency for such conditions? It seems a waste of energy (and presumably money) to have such rare items as the Saudi Hawks and the C-27 grounded for the day because it is not possible to change timings, and to suggest that it would be too quick a change and thus too difficult just doesn't add up.
As an alternative, time shift the morning slot as a block; put it into the evening and continue the flying until 7.30, after all the airfield doesn't close until 8.30pm.
RIAT is a very expensive day out now and many people can't afford the luxury of attending both days; despite the emphasis on families which seems to be the obsession now, a significant number of people pay a lot of money primarily to go to see aircraft that cannot be seen anywhere else in the UK. Lose the good will of the 'fans' and losing money is sure to follow.

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Sea King
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Sea King »

Had a great time - I was in the hospitality tents, the service throughout the day was superb and I couldn't have been more grateful when the weather was awful; a roof over my head was highly appreciated.

So many highlights to mention, but one deserving of his place here was the Dassault Rafale, courtesy of the Armée de l'Air - never has a fast jet routine been so impressive and I sincerely hope it takes home a number of awards, outstanding. Worthy to note the highly appreciative crowd - not just for the Rafale display, but numerous other displays.

FGR2
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by FGR2 »

The A-10 also had a problem yesterday, I believe it was a radio problem then and he delayed his practice by about 5 minutes. I think it suffered because of the weather. When the Puddlejumpers went up about one I had a look around the static. It is a shame that a lot of the star items cancelled their displays today. I have known RIAT many times in the past say hopefully it will be displaying tomorrow. Usually I don't go both days.

Hoping the weather will allow the missed items today to fly tomorrow, namely F-16s from Turkey & Belgium, Saab105, Hunters, C27 and Italian Tornado.

Tiger schemes did look good In the sun this afternoon:)

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Sea King
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Sea King »

techniquest wrote:Just a thought about the difficulties and problems re-arranging fying displays. By simply keeping an eye on the BBC weather forcasts on TV and also XC Weather here on the interweb, I knew that the weather today would be rubbish in the morning and sparkling in the afternoon about 48 hours ago. Simple, basic meteorology.
I assume (maybe wrongly) that a major organisation like RIAT would have access to the very best forcasting tools, almost minute by minute. So could there not be a contingency for such conditions? It seems a waste of energy (and presumably money) to have such rare items as the Saudi Hawks and the C-27 grounded for the day because it is not possible to change timings, and to suggest that it would be too quick a change and thus too difficult just doesn't add up.
As an alternative, time shift the morning slot as a block; put it into the evening and continue the flying until 7.30, after all the airfield doesn't close until 8.30pm.
RIAT is a very expensive day out now and many people can't afford the luxury of attending both days; despite the emphasis on families which seems to be the obsession now, a significant number of people pay a lot of money primarily to go to see aircraft that cannot be seen anywhere else in the UK. Lose the good will of the 'fans' and losing money is sure to follow.


Many of the foreign participants, which seemed to be scheduled between the times of 10-1, were cancelled due to the appalling cloud base and rain - I agree about the 'rare items'. For example, was really hoping to see the Solo Turk! Just scrub the Grob Tutor :whistle:

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Kieran
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Kieran »

Rafale, BBMF, OFMC Pair, Frecce and the RAF Tonkas were sensational today! The Tonkas in particular caught us all by surprise on their first pass! :wink:

The two F-16 displays happened to be the worst two out of the four that were originally scheduled to fly; both were too far away and the Dutch doesn't seem to be as fluent as it used to be. BAe Tiff was alright, a bit high and a bit distant, the Italian Tiff needs to whip the RAF Tiff and BAe Tiff demos to shape and show what a Typhoon can actually do!

Breitling Wingwalkers and Breitling Jet Team finale?! Are you kidding me? The finale to the supposed 'World's Largest Airshow' and it goes to two civilian participants, who aren't the most popular acts in enthusiasts' eyes. Fair enough, they're sponsors for the show but why couldn't they go up at lunchtime? Oh and their 'formation' pass was fantastic...

RAF solo displays bar the Chinook are a complete waste of time and effort. Chinook was impressive as the solo demo always is! AAC Apache is awful compared to the Dutch. ERJ-195 was a waste of time too.

Traffic was slow but moving on the Green Route this morning. I also happened to want the toilet badly in Meysey Hampton so I was furious with the police officers couldn't tell me how to get to Rhymes Farm (it was my first time there)

Overall, RIAT 2011 wasn't a good RIAT at all, and that wasn't the weather's fault. I only really wanted to see two items today and they were the A-10 and RSV Tonka. There were too many 'non-RIAT' slots in the flying programme, such as the RAF training solos, AAC Apache, BJT, Wingwalkers, ERJ 195 which makes one think how desperate things are! I'll be back in 2012 for sure but it'll be the banter and the Chinese Air Force! :lol:

Oh, and the thing that made my month? The Air Cadet Flypast being scrubbed! Happy days! :win:

Commentary team, from the little I heard, well Ben Dunnell was on the ball as ever! And Spiv, where was the SoloTurk demo you said was your highlight of the day? Next year, keep Ben on the mic please! :biggrin:
Last edited by Kieran on Sun 17 Jul 2011, 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

SEMAE
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by SEMAE »

Problem with the A10 today was the 'stability and augmentation system' so he had to abandon the display when the problem occured. He could not sort it out.

To anyone who was at RIAT on Friday, he had the same computer glitch which is why he was flying out and about for many minutes before starting his practice yesterday.


Martin

stonesfan
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by stonesfan »

SEMAE wrote:Problem with the A10 today was the 'stability and augmentation system' so he had to abandon the display when the problem occured. He could not sort it out.

To anyone who was at RIAT on Friday, he had the same computer glitch which is why he was flying out and about for many minutes before starting his practice yesterday.


Martin


We wondered what he was up to yesterday. 5000ft or so and performing a number of turns for 10 minutes before displaying.

A real shame that there was no A-10 display today as it would have been one of the highlights.

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Sea King
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Sea King »

Kieran wrote:The two F-16 displays happened to be the worst two out of the four that were originally scheduled to fly; both were too far away and the Dutch doesn't seem to be as fluent as it used to be. BAe Tiff was alright, a bit high and a bit distant, the Italian Tiff needs to whip the RAF Tiff and BAe Tiff demos to shape and show what a Typhoon can actually do!


Dutch F16 was distinctly average, I must say. Can't say that for the Danish F16 though, thought it was a nice display. :cool: Nothing wrong with the Tiffie, just the crap cloud base!

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boff180
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by boff180 »

Sigh....

I really don't get some people...

1. Queues to get in.
Why do you have to go and join a line of people to get through an entrance 2 hours early? Especially in the rain? Complete waste of time! A number of us in Blue car park just kipped in our cars till 8:10, lazily got our gear together and were in the airfield within 5 minutes of leaving the car! Blue security was alot laxer than it has been for FRIAT all week where they were insisting on searching EVERY bag thoroughly.

2. Flying display.
It rains. Cloud gets low. Acts get cancelled. Life goes on. It was pure bad luck that acts couldn't fly this morning, the rain had nothing to do with it, the problem was the cloud base which was extremely low! I personally wouldn't re-jig acts as you will risk offending other participants "sorry lads, the weather is fine for you to display in the slot we briefed you for two days ago and you have prepped for but joe punter would prefer to see the C-27 rather than you, so, you're cancelled"; I'm sure that would go down like a sack of spuds!
RIAT however, I believe, can be criticised for having a similar timeline two days running, thats never been before and doesn't provide the variety for multi-day visitors!

3. Static.
Participant quality wise, it was the best for a number of years however, WHY was there a need to stick a bouncy castle fun fair behind the Ukrainians? That and the frankly dangerous driving of the VIP transits, they weren't going slowly into the VIP area. I saw two people take glancing blows and a number having to jump out the way.

If you don't like it, don't go at the end of the day, the punters paid to come in; the show is a family event and not for the "enthusiast" anymore, I think some people need to come to terms with that....
Were there over 60,000 tickets sold for today? Yes
Was the show a success in the organisers views? Yes
Will there be another show next year? Yes
Have I renewed my FRIAT? Yes
Do I think next year will be the best in years (based on rumours)? YES!

Andy



4. Car Park attendants.
Apart from a run in with an extremely rude female attendant on Thursday arrivals, they were good this year, got out of Blue car park and on the road very quickly.

stonesfan
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by stonesfan »

boff180 wrote:the show is a family event and not for the "enthusiast" anymore, I think some people need to come to terms with that....

Do I think next year will be the best in years (based on rumours)? YES!



Out of interest how can next years show even if its only rumours be the 'best in years' if theres already been an admission that its not for the enthusiast anymore? Is there suddenly going to be a shift in policy of who the show is aimed at?

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G-CVIX
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by G-CVIX »

Had a great day in the end despite getting soaked at the start.

Again would like to echo my disappointment at the cancellation of nearly all the highlights in the flying display. Rafale was very good indeed however.

Also its a pity they had covers bands on all day, often coming louder than the commentary! This coupled with the increase in civvies makes me feel that it could be the "beginning of the end" as someone else said in this thread. Or maybe a change of direction?

The US herk crew that brought the proper mountain dew made it for me though!

Looking forward to tomorrow.

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225Mriya
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by 225Mriya »

Pretty sure I heard on the scanner the A-10 fixed the problem as he was about to join finals, but was then refused permission to continue the display due to timings -however there seemed plenty of time to fit in lengthy displays of a lot of items you would normally find at any UK airshow though. Poor decision made by someone to bin the display of the one of the star items in an otherwise mediocre lineup (I'm not criticising the actual performances), it seems lessons have not been learnt - I recall a chinook arriving late a few years ago being refused permission to display for similar reasons. :dizzy:
If only the F-35B could loose as much weight.....

parabola50
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by parabola50 »

What was the issue with the A10? Was it that both were supposed to fly? Or did the issue cause the one that flew to go so high and not do many fly bys? I saw it going but it didn't do much, so is this what people were complaining about? I got a bit confused as people are saying it didn't fly, but one did.

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Sea King
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Sea King »

225Mriya wrote:Pretty sure I heard on the scanner the A-10 fixed the problem as he was about to join finals, but was then refused permission to continue the display due to timings -however there seemed plenty of time to fit in lengthy displays of a lot of items you would normally find at any UK airshow though. Poor decision made by someone to bin the display of the one of the star items in an otherwise mediocre lineup (I'm not criticising the actual performances), it seems lessons have not been learnt - I recall a chinook arriving late a few years ago being refused permission to display for similar reasons. :dizzy:


Is this true? :mad:

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jesterhud
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by jesterhud »

parabola50 wrote:What was the issue with the A10? Was it that both were supposed to fly? Or did the issue cause the one that flew to go so high and not do many fly bys? I saw it going but it didn't do much, so is this what people were complaining about? I got a bit confused as people are saying it didn't fly, but one did.



The A10 did fly but had the tech issue almost as soon as he started his display, he went up high and circled trying to fix it but could not and he said he was coming back in, he was asked if he was declaring an emergency but said 'negative', as he approached finals he offered to do a couple of flat flypasts but was refused by the tower due to timings.
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lozza
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by lozza »

pbeardmore wrote:Sorry, can we just clarify something here?

Are some people who did not actually go in offering critiques of the show?


Oh yes im one, but going tomorrow, its not a money issue just prefer to get different angles or is that out of order also :tongue2: :tongue2:

Mantog
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Mantog »

I've seen a couple of posts that are dismissive of the Grob Tutor display. That's pretty mean, imagine if you were the pilot of that display and read that people would rather you didn't display!! I always enjoy watching it.

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Kieran
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Kieran »

Mantog wrote:I've seen a couple of posts that are dismissive of the Grob Tutor display. That's pretty mean, imagine if you were the pilot of that display and read that people would rather you didn't display!! I always enjoy watching it.


It's a good display, it's just not suited at RIAT. Neither is the Tucano, Hawk and a lot of other flying participants on the programme today. The T-67M that Alan Wade flew at RIAT for many years came under flak for similar reasons. They're small aircraft which catch little interest over a near 2 mile long runway.

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Mictheslik
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Mictheslik »

Mantog wrote:I've seen a couple of posts that are dismissive of the Grob Tutor display. That's pretty mean, imagine if you were the pilot of that display and read that people would rather you didn't display!! I always enjoy watching it.


I thought Team grob did very well today.....some very skilful flying, it's just a shame the aircraft doesn't have much impact...definitely one to watch rather than photograph. Especially enjoyed the raptoresque zoom climb after building speed up down the runway today :D

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stonesfan
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by stonesfan »

Mantog wrote:I've seen a couple of posts that are dismissive of the Grob Tutor display. That's pretty mean, imagine if you were the pilot of that display and read that people would rather you didn't display!! I always enjoy watching it.


Yes but this is RIAT!!! Stuff like that is for smaller airshows surely? Did the Belgian Red Devils display? That seemed to send a lot of people to sleep yesterday. Again, fine for a country fete type affair, but RIAT?

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Sea King
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by Sea King »

stonesfan wrote:Did the Belgian Red Devils display?


Unfortunately.

81TFW
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by 81TFW »

Just got back after a slow walk round after the flying finished and a 'steady' drive back.

Star of the show? Armee de l'Air Rafale, no question, but thought the BAe Typhoon was pretty spectacular as he was fully fuelled and tooled, not slick like most of the display participants.

Biggest disappointment: A-10 going tech. Was really looking forward to that.

Most annoying thing within RIAT's control: a tie, between: the commentators saying "Oh well, you can see that tomorrow", no I can't, like the vast majority of people I won't be there tomorrow, one day is expensive enough as it is, and: the noisiest non-aircraft background (loud music mostly) of any airshow I can remember. Couldn't hear most of the commentary, but I did pick up something about the "glorious sound of Merlins" while the BBMF were on. I wish, I couldn't hear them over some 'music' coming from behind me.

The weather: got what we expected. Would have hoped RIAT could have rearranged some things I CAN'T see tomorrow, but expect there's good reasons behind it.

Biggest concern: how far will RIAT go from being an enthusiast's show? Finishing with the Breitling displays was a terrible decision, even if they are sponsors. RIAT, especially in this anniversary year, should finish with the Red Arrows. End of discussion. The FlyBe flypast: why? Took forever and the time could have been better used. If RIAT loses or is losing credibility with some air arms is this why they seem to struggle for participants?

Where have all the decent traders gone? I don't want perfume, sunglasses or cuddly toys, I'm an aviation enthusiast at an airshow and I want AVIATION stuff. One of the book traders told me RIAT is by far their most expensive airshow of the year. Is this why you don't see small aviation traders, artists, etc any more, but do see lots of market stall tat?

I am a supporter of RIAT, want it to do well, went to my first one at Greenham Common, all that stuff, BUT: Did I enjoy it? Mostly. Will I go again? Probably. Am I concerned about RIAT's future? Most definitely yes.

colinp
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Re: Thoughts on the show.

Post by colinp »

Spot on. Riat have lost touch completely. I dare say they'll get some marketing quetionnaire company to show how great it all was but the truth is somewat different.

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