IAT nonsense

[Andyph]

I have been going to IAT shows from the mid 70s - they were, without doubt, the best military airshows in the world.

For the last decade though they have, in my opinion, been in terminal decline.

The worse the Fairford shows gets with aircraft participation, the more it is replaced with hype and none aviation ‘family’ activities (including whatever that singer was called). At least it seems that way to me.

With attendances falling it seems IAT have a cunning plan to get more punters to the show. Perhaps it is getting rid of all the extraneous crap and catering to the enthusiasts, after all it worked for a couple of decades.

Not quite – it is this crap….

http://www.airshows.org.uk/news/2011/12 ... f-airshow/

Air Tattoo Marketing Deputy Director Helen Webb was “ immediately struck by his vivid use of colours and his ability to convey all the excitement aviation has to offer”. Righty oh.
By bringing ‘Ace Mandala’ to life, we hope to convey the sort of excitement and thrills that can spark the imagination of a future fast jet pilot.”
And there was me thinking that getting a good selection of metal on the static and flying did that – sorry, seems I am living in the past.

[iainpeden]

A discussion which re-emerges when the dark winter nights appear; a few points I'd like to make.
I, too, have been doing airshows since the late 1960s and have great memories of the days of Vulcans, Phantoms, Mirages et al.
The reduction in airshow participaltion started in the early 1990's with the end of the Cold War; not only have we gone from 30 front line squadrons to 6 but there is less will by the politicians to sell to the public the message for strong, and therefore expensive, armed forces. Other countries have had similar reductions.
The current decline is due to a) the economic crisis and b) a lack of understanding by current politicians, none of whom have served in the military or been to war, of the value of the utimate insurance policy.

Lastly, please don't castigate the airshow organisors - they can only get what is available.

[Wes_Howes]

Lastly, please don't castigate the airshow organisors - they can only get what is available.

But they do not help themselves by booking and paying for a pop "singer" to perform at a major airshow

[Andyph]

A discussion which re-emerges when the dark winter nights appear; a few points I'd like to make.
I, too, have been doing airshows since the late 1960s and have great memories of the days of Vulcans, Phantoms, Mirages et al.
The reduction in airshow participaltion started in the early 1990's with the end of the Cold War; not only have we gone from 30 front line squadrons to 6 but there is less will by the politicians to sell to the public the message for strong, and therefore expensive, armed forces. Other countries have had similar reductions.
The current decline is due to a) the economic crisis and b) a lack of understanding by current politicians, none of whom have served in the military or been to war, of the value of the utimate insurance policy.

Lastly, please don't castigate the airshow organisors - they can only get what is available.

I am not castigating the 'show organisers' but the marketing machine of IAT. Posters with faces on and popular singers will not make me come to Fairford - interesting aircraft do - I am sure I am not alone in this!

I think (although have no figures to back it up) you will find the peak of Fairford was the mid 90s - at least in aircraft numbers if not in quaility

[Dragon Rapide]

I write as another airshow attender on and off since the late fifties. I endorse iainpeden's comments but the fault surely still lies with the organisers in trying to maintain the pretence of the great shows of the past without the hardware, but with the necessity to bring in lots of extraneous activities.

Why not accept the realities of the time and create as good an aviation show as possible for the enthusiasts plus those who thoroughly enjoy the flying and static displays and some stuff for the youngsters, with reduced admission and accept that the vast crowds are a thing of the past. After all many other shows around the clountry do it diffserently and seem to produce fine shows. I think that expectations and aspirations are too high for RIAT.

[Flankerman]

I'm all for the new RIAT poster............ it's got a Flanker on it !!!

Ken (Flankerman)

[Wes_Howes]

Why not accept the realities of the time and create as good an aviation show as possible for the enthusiasts plus those who thoroughly enjoy the flying and static displays and some stuff for the youngsters, with reduced admission and accept that the vast crowds are a thing of the past. After all many other shows around the clountry do it diffserently and seem to produce fine shows. I think that expectations and aspirations are too high for RIAT.

Well summed up DR

[AlexC]

Although the reasons can be argued, it's undeniable that RIAT is in terminal decline. All good things come to an end.

[Abingdonman]

I guess the organisers are in a tough place the way things have gone.
when the Tattoos came into being, the average base air show was approx. 4.5 hrs,so it was something else to have a military airshow 7-8 hrs or more...let alone all those air forces bringing their stuff!
I reckon perhaps the show is just a bit too long with whats available,maybe they should have a shorter flying display with the entertainers performing after the airshow has finished (they do similar at some horseracing days )and after all,if people are only interested in the flying,they can always go when they are ready.....or vice versa
another thing is,the old Tattoos were every 2 years,so they had us at their mercy!

[Duxfordian]

sorry I dont buy the IAT is in terminal decline. IAT needs to remember what made it famous - BEING AN AIRSHOW. Forget the Pop Idol singers, the Daleks, Transformers and stunt car shows and focus on aeroplanes. If people want to see Daleks and Singers, then there are OTHER EVENTS to cater for them.

IAT - we, your paying guests, dont want s*tty posters by s*tty "artists" (you might want to tell David Brent that there are still NINE not SEVEN Red Arrows), Ace Mandela, Alex Burke, bike display teams or stunt drivers. What we want for our £40+ a day is FLYING. Seven hours of non stop aviation, including stuff we wont see at every other sodding show over the summer. At the moment the show is not worth £40 for the aviation content.

Go back to your roots, start again with what made IAT the biggest and best, and forget this obsession with sideshows, before your loyal customers decide to go overseas to shows which cater for what WE want.

Rant over.

[Orion]

I have always thought that the RIAT was too big, much too big and I stopped going many years ago because they were charging too much for something I couldn't see all of in one day.

The traditional air display with a static and a flying display that started at 2 and finished at 5 is fine for me. That's what I want and I don't get it a many of the current air displays, so I don't go. Why be fleeced and be dissatisfied into the bargain?

Another issue is the aggressiveness of the RAFBF. Like a good many other charities they have equated their good cause, a very good cause indeed, with utter self-rightousness and they express that self-rightousness in a most unpleasant way. Not for me thanks.

Sorry if this offends

Regards

[Abingdonman]

They cant have whats not there Duxfordian
I reckon 6 hrs can be plenty long enough for a flying display,Farnborough 2006 only had around 5 hrs flying,and I honestly thought that,with maybe just a couple more aircraft displaying,F15 etc,to take it up to the 6 hrs,and NO flying restrictions,the flying display would have been up there with the best,but half of that shows not available now,so what do you do! (Ok,the static might not have held up to a Tattoo or a Mildenhall! )

[Duxfordian]

On the poster its the SAME Reds picture as last year's poster, he's just done a cut and paste job!





Whatever happened to the old days of the proper painted posters?

[Wes_Howes]

Whatever happened to the old days of the proper painted posters?

They're clearly not brightly painted enough for the, ADD riddled, masses to be attracted to

[King Cobra]

Sorry to disappoint you chaps but I like poster art and I like this poster. If I had my way I'd tone down the colours a bit but that's about all.

Oh, and there are 9 Reds on the poster. 7 in formation and two doing the "heart" reflected in the pilot's visor.

[yf23blackwidow]

Never mind the posters. What has happened to the beautiful tickets you used to get. I have kept all of mine through the years. 1997 was fantastic. Now you get a ticket that looks like a bill!

[Liveforriat]

First of all there are 9 Reds in the Picture two are in the Pilots visor drawing the Heart

Do I like the poster ? not really but art is always a personal thing and I did see a few of last years posters on billboards and around various towns before the show and they were quite eye catching when on that scale so I assume as they catch the eye then they are fulfilling their objective !

I just do not believe IAT is in decline. The trouble is whether us enthusiasts like to believe it or not people like us who inhabit UKAR and those who have a similar level of interest in aircraft are not the prime revenue source for IAT The general public however are, and on the feedback forms and questionnaires many people must state that they like the non aircraft based activities otherwise the show organizers simply would not included them if they were not attracting people ! Its the people that these attractions bring in who are the these same people who will return year after year and are quite happy if they get to see a a shiny red display team , a spitfire , a Vulcan and a few loud fast high performing jets ! They are not overly interested in fancy paint schemes or a rare version of a c-130 with a few extra nobbly bits on they want a broad range of aircraft and lots of other activities to keep the kids amused and with ticket prices of £29 at present I dont think they are going to be too dissuaded if nothing but the norm appears in 2012.

The cold war era days of IAT are over and if shows dont change to meet the market that is willing to give them money then they will cease to exist. IAT is doing exactly this and I think by doing this rather than declining they willl survive just fine.

[capercaillie]

I just do not believe IAT is in decline. IAT is doing exactly this and I think by doing this rather than declining they willl survive just fine.

And the attendance down by 30,000 plus this year was due to.......?

Whether they are trying to attract the die hard military enthusiast (let's be honest, in the UK last year, Yeovilton's flying display aside it nver had much competition) or the general public, as an airshow RIAT has lost direction. World money has a lot to do with current turn out I appreciate that, but do we really need pop stars and transformers to fill that void?

Anyway sounds like a couple of Tonkas working low level on the Herefordshire/Shropshire border so my interest is going to those for now

[Liveforriat]

Capercallie, you make a good point , the lower attendcance figures obviously point towards something being not quite right but I would imagine that this is just as much to do with economic conditions and perhaps that is where the £29 ticket price comes from. I also think that the day specific, order in advance tickets have damaged attendance figures because people arent so comfortable paying such a high price when they cant choose the day that they want to ! Im not saying IAT Have it perfect because by no means have they I just dont think its in some kind of terminal decline

[SPLAT]

All good answers ,
But where else can you go and find so many different nationality's in one show?
If you visit an airshow in most countries , it is predomintly home grown.Malta and Zeltweg are the only other shows in my mind , that attract some exotic variations.
The show could not run on aviation enthusiast's only and the general prublic want a day out , hence the shows / singers.
I do think buying in advance puts people off going , who wants to go to an airshow when it is hammering with rain.
Do you get wet or lose your money?
Other than that , RIAT will always be on your list for that STAR attraction.

[DamienB]

First of all there are 9 Reds in the Picture two are in the Pilots visor drawing the Heart

Ah but the Reds use 3 jets to draw the heart... so that pair can't be them...

Godawful "art".

[tankbuster]

In actual fact I think it is probably fair to say the RIAT is one of the best value quality events that you can attend in the UK. That's not to say it's not a lot of money for a family day out but compare to the Grand Prix, A West End show or even lesser air displays it is excellent value. I agree with others that the advance booking only, and having to select a day is probably a big off-putter but then again if the organisers do get not so good weather they have the money in the bank. I've actuall booked the anyday for £34 which I'm pleased with, about the same as a one and a half hour Championship football match of dubious quality. How does anybody justify a family day out at a Premiership game.

One thought for the future, if available airforces are reducing let's hope RIAT doesn't end up just pulling in substitutes from the pool that everybody else uses. There are more displayable aircraft in this country and Europe than there have ever been yet you wouldn't think so if you attend the half a dozen or so shows left which have an amazing similarity. Biggin is missed, it just had that edge of something different. The real stars are the Flying Legends organisers who never fail to attract some genuiunely interesting aircraft year on year.

[Beefy]

All good answers ,
But where else can you go and find so many different nationality's in one show?
If you visit an airshow in most countries , it is predomintly home grown.Malta and Zeltweg are the only other shows in my mind , that attract some exotic variations.
The show could not run on aviation enthusiast's only and the general prublic want a day out , hence the shows / singers.
I do think buying in advance puts people off going , who wants to go to an airshow when it is hammering with rain.
Do you get wet or lose your money?
Other than that , RIAT will always be on your list for that STAR attraction.

You obviously don't know about Kecskemet in Hungary which blew the pants of RIAT last year with it's STAR attractions (note attractions) not just attraction; frankly it made RIAT look more like a PFA fly-in at Cranfield! It also had nationality's attending that you don't get at RIAT.

There are several airshows in Europe which have stuck to their routes of being an AIRSHOW and are bigger than ever - do a bit of research on Sanicole in Belgium and you will see what I mean - all the excuses about RIAT needing to "diversify" are just that, excuses - If RIAT stuck to what it did best it would still be an event worth attending, as it is now it's a complete rip-off.

On the poster its the SAME Reds picture as last year's poster, he's just done a cut and paste job!





Whatever happened to the old days of the proper painted posters?

And how much are they paying said artist to come up with such dross??? Then to top if off with a cut and paste job on next years poster over this years (which would have taken all of 5 minutes) just goes to show the marketing prowess and thoughtful budgeting of the RIAT team

[FGR2]

Before I read the article I was thinking RIAT had gone down a similar path as Top Gear. Once targeted at enthusiasts and now gone for mass market appeal, moving away from it's once core base.

Trying to re-create a Stig like character is IMHO following a very tired formula. The whole Stig thing is boring now.

With the US cutting back, and us annoying the rest of Europe now next year could be interesting.

I would like to see less of the PR hype, fictional advertising characters, Daleks, Singers though.

I've got a feeling Yeovilton next year will be rammed, just off the back of the star items this year, the static Phantom, unique Vulcan/Sea Vixen flypasts, Mig-29, French Navy Pair, and set pieces.

[phreakf4]

Before and after RIAT (and several other air shows) this same old "we" don't want the "crap", "non-aviation" stalls and other "attractions "."we" just want aircraft and aviation related stalls and therefore the audience in general does not want them either appears.

Rubbish. Try actually looking around the show rather than "claiming your spot" on the crowdline and not leaving it except for food and toilet breaks until the flying (or at least that part of it which is not too "boring" because it doesn't involve afterburning jets) is over.

Or maybe those expressing this narrow point of view think that the stall-holders are too thick to realise that no-one wants them there and no-one will buy their "crap" (which to be fair some of it is) but are so stupid that they come back year after year to occupy a pitch which by all accounts costs them considerably more than they would pay at other events (even Sunday Markets) which are being held on the same day, just so that they can lose some more money.

Clearly that is not the case, and the traders return each year because they know that a significant proportion of the audience is interested in browsing the stalls and even buying the "tat" and "crap".

The plain fact is that some "enthusiasts" are so blinkered in their approach that they still believe that a show the size of RIAT could exist on the entry fees of "enthusiasts" alone despite the fact that a goodly number of said "enthusiasts" will not pay the entry fee at all but prefer to freeload on the outside. Strange that so many deride Duxford "because you can't get decent shots from crowdside due to shooting into the sun", then go to Totterdown and Rhymes and shoot runway and taxi shots into the sun all day .......and then criticise a show for which they are not prepared to pay!)

Even if no "enthusiasts" turned up at all, the show would probably survive, whereas if "Joe Public" didn't turn up it would be doomed.