RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby Big Eric on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 7:58 am

sopwithflyer wrote:
Big Eric wrote:
sopwithflyer wrote:
Grunt087 wrote:Sopwithflyer Stop assuming "I am the type that barges to the front " I don't . I do get there early . I walk down the flight line and if there is an open spot I go there. If there is not an open spot I stand behind others that got there first. I don't feel more important than anybody because I have a big lens. I do get annoyed with people that shove there way in front of me. I assume that people that came after I did that are sleeping, reading books or children under age 5 playing with toys aren't that interested in the flying. I don't have a problem with people doing those things. I do have a problem when they complain about Fat Middle age photographers with huge lenses who made the effort to get there first don't give up there spot in line for them.


1, You said you assume that certain people arn't interested in the flying. I had some muppet push in front of me in an enclosure and say "well you aren't taking photo's" Fortunately I am big enough to remove folk like that. It narks me that those who take photos think those who don't aren't interested. What do they know about me.

2, Whether you like it of not those families are the future of airshows and the future of aviation. It is not for you to decide how much they are enjoying being there. In England we have no end of issue with numpties complaining about aircraft noise etc etc. I am a co-owner of am aircraft and two of the airfields I regularly fly into have irregular approaches to avoid offending idiots that have bought houses next to airfields and then spend their life complaining. All those families will hopefully enjoy the show and avoid turning into the anti-aviation brigade. Arrogance towards them creates them.

3, If you got to the front first then well done - good for you. Something to be proud of maybe. Many of those at the front don't get up early. They push their way to the front because they have a camera. They seem to think having a camera is their right to do so. If you woke up early and got there first - as I said well done. If you are one of those that just force their way in then shame on you. Only you know which one you are. But aviation needs nurturing and those kids are the future; even if they turn out to be accepting of it.


"arn't", "aren't", "aren't" - come on, make your mind up ! The correct answer is "aren't" - it's short for "are not". :wall:[/qu

Well being a 6'7 inch 22 stone former semi pro Lock for three current championship sides; now rugby coach. Writing a response on a silly little I phone is kind of tricky. I don't bother with nit picking but always happy to oblige reference the smiley. :wink:


That's your excuse and you're sticking to it ! :smile: :grin:
Big Eric

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 8:23 am

(makes note to not be too cheeky to sopwithflyer) :-X
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby JANNER77 on Mon 07 Aug 2017, 4:13 pm

JANNER77 wrote:Fairford Airshow has been for numerous years now been the highlight of the year for us. We have
always been use to having a relaxing enjoyable day out there. But this year on the Saturday and Monday we were literally overwhelmed by photographers hell bent on getting their photos regardless of who else was around them. One for example with all his gear, though politely asked, refused to move to let my wife in her wheelchair out. Really made to feel 2nd class by him.
What on earth takes over guys like that with his cameras .
What was this self-centered attitude by so many of them.
The Fairford air show was a relaxing entertaining family day out for all! But are those days now gone - it appears so.
Terry



From JANNER 77 Initial contribution Sunday 23rd July and to local press
Diversity is a word that is much bandied about today and it very much I feel applies now to RIAT Fairford.
I.e. how so many of us set off to the airs how to seek our enjoyment there but for different reasons.
Most probably I am being nieve and it always been like that ,but for myself and family and going by what also has been said here this year those diverse reasons are unfortunately leading to a source of discord that I sincerely feel is going to manifest itself if something isn’t done to curtail it.
Last edited by JANNER77 on Mon 28 Aug 2017, 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
JANNER77

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby mikek on Mon 07 Aug 2017, 5:06 pm

JANNER77 wrote:
JANNER77 wrote:Fairford Airshow has been for numerous years now been the highlight of the year for us. We have
always been use to having a relaxing enjoyable day out there. But this year on the Saturday and Monday we were literally overwhelmed by photographers hell bent on getting their photos regardless of who else was around them. One for example with all his gear, though politely asked, refused to move to let my wife in her wheelchair out. Really made to feel 2nd class by him.
What on earth takes over guys like that with his cameras .
What was this self-centered attitude by so many of them.
The Fairford air show was a relaxing entertaining family day out for all! But are those days now gone - it appears so.
Terry



From JANNER 77 Initial contribution Sunday 23rd July and to local press
Diversity is a word that is much bandied about today and it very much I feel applies now to RIAT Fairford.
I.e. how so many of us set off to the airs how to seek our enjoyment there but for different reasons.
Most probably I am being nieve and it always been like that ,but for myself and family and going by what also has been said here this year those diverse reasons are unfortunately leading to a source of discord that I sincerely feel is going to manifest itself if something isn’t done to curtail it.

Is it too due with Fairford becoming a victim of its own success? That the different reasons why we go to Fairford doesn’t allow us the room now to do so? I raise this point as just for that reason I mentioned earlier, we have always sat at the far far end of the runway so as to be removed from the main body. But this year that certainly did not work out with the miserable outcome that followed.
I would like for those in charge at Fairford to consider what mine and other examples have been raised here. I completed their feedback form but as you may be aware it was mainly a tick box exercise. So then I also wrote them – no reply as yet. I would actually go to RIAT HQ and put my concerns to them face to face .As an organisation after the show there appears to be a touch of Sir Percy Blakeney about them.
Anyhow I suppose at the end of the day someone could say ‘Terry this is attitude is endemic in today’s society, accept it and move on’. Which to be honest is beginning to creep now unfortunately in to my mind-set. Hold on I think that’s been said to me here already.
I feel that I must also add that in my case with the wheelchair and other examples of which you have mentioned of rank bad manners also shown you, I wish I could have the answer to. I personally can live with what happened – I tried the polite request first- then when that was literally waved aside upwards – I just went for it.
So before this thread disappears into cyber space (who said I wish that I would) thank you all for allowing me to put my views and your replies to them.
For those who did have a great time at Fairford this year I am really pleased for you and may I wish you the same for next year. Terry


and?

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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby UK Airshow Review on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 6:33 pm

  • "Cutting Edge" - Sam Wise sat down and chatted with Capitaines Elvis, Pastif, Axel and San about their first year and the experience of going to RIAT in an exclusive interview for UK Airshow Review.

    Image Image Image Image Image
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby jason82wells on Wed 09 Aug 2017, 6:49 am

Having done Thu-Sat the last few years, we're thinking of mixing it up a bit next year, maybe the Wed/Thu, and/Monday, so whilst 2017 is still fresh in our minds can someone confirm the following:-

How much lands on the Wednesday? Guessing 50%
How much lands on the Thursday? I reckon 40% at a guess
How much goes back on a Monday? 95% or more
What time are the last movements on a Monday?

^^ If someone has access to a comprehensive movements sheet I'm happy to get all the above answers for myself if that's easier

Next year the Friday is a "full day" but does this mean all the static will be open?
jason82wells

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 09 Aug 2017, 4:18 pm

jason82wells wrote:If someone has access to a comprehensive movements sheet I'm happy to get all the above answers for myself if that's easier

Could try the RIAT Arrivals topic : http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78072
Brevet.. Meh !!
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby Big Eric on Wed 09 Aug 2017, 4:37 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
jason82wells wrote:If someone has access to a comprehensive movements sheet I'm happy to get all the above answers for myself if that's easier

Could try the RIAT Arrivals topic : http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78072


Chris's site might help :- https://www.threshold.aero/data/riat-2017-live-arrivals
Big Eric

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby jason82wells on Wed 09 Aug 2017, 6:02 pm

Big Eric wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
jason82wells wrote:If someone has access to a comprehensive movements sheet I'm happy to get all the above answers for myself if that's easier

Could try the RIAT Arrivals topic : http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=78072


Chris's site might help :- https://www.threshold.aero/data/riat-2017-live-arrivals


Great shout, forgot about that & had it bookmarked :lmao: :hide:

For the benefit of anyone else asking the same thing I've copied it into excel & had a look at it. I've removed replicas arriving by road & I've removed things which didn't arrive/land as such (flypast items, Osprey, B-17), but have left in the BBMF as they stopped on Friday - this leaves 212 "movements".

The week before the show 9 items arrived, 1 of which departed. 10 movements = less than 5%

On the Tuesday 3 arrived = 1%

On Wednesday I count 69 movements comprising 63 arrivals (6 of which departed). 33%

On Thursday I have 111 movements made up of 105 arrivals (6 of which departed) 52%

Then on Friday 19 movements (17 stayed & 2 of them departed) which is 9%

Can't find much with regards to Monday but I know all the crying was over the BUFF & Bone. Assuming a few others stayed too.
jason82wells

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby MC hammer on Wed 09 Aug 2017, 9:22 pm

Remember there are also several flying display rehearsals/validations to add to the Wednesday &Thursday movements.
MC hammer

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby jason82wells on Wed 09 Aug 2017, 10:00 pm

MC hammer wrote:Remember there are also several flying display rehearsals/validations to add to the Wednesday &Thursday movements.


True that MC, I didn't include them but I'd factored into my own mind that the bulk (80-90%) of the practices/validations happen Wed-Thu.
jason82wells

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby G-CVIX on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 8:25 am

Didn't see any tears but I'm fairly certain that the B-1 and B-52 were the only aircraft left after Monday.
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby play it cool on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 8:53 am

jason82wells wrote:How much goes back on a Monday? 95% or more
What time are the last movements on a Monday?


If it's a Farnborough year then some of the aircraft tend to depart on the Sunday. On the Monday the bulk of the departures will be roughly 09:00-14:00 or so, then it thins out quite a bit. I think we left about 14:30 or 15:00 this year. There may have been the odd thing left to depart, but nothing particularly essential. Apart from the B-1 and B-52, I think a hawk had gone tech and was unable to go. Annoying about the USA bombers, however we were still in the vicinity so went back Tuesday to see them leave.
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby jason82wells on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 12:29 pm

play it cool wrote:
jason82wells wrote:How much goes back on a Monday? 95% or more
What time are the last movements on a Monday?


If it's a Farnborough year then some of the aircraft tend to depart on the Sunday. On the Monday the bulk of the departures will be roughly 09:00-14:00 or so, then it thins out quite a bit. I think we left about 14:30 or 15:00 this year. There may have been the odd thing left to depart, but nothing particularly essential. Apart from the B-1 and B-52, I think a hawk had gone tech and was unable to go. Annoying about the USA bombers, however we were still in the vicinity so went back Tuesday to see them leave.


Now that's something I didn't factor in (Farnborough) so that's useful to know - thank you.

Looks like it's a toss-up between two long arrival days including flypasts, validations & practices, or a shorter day seeing them depart.

Departures does appeal, particularly as I've never done that before, plus seeing the bulk of stuff going...

G-CVIX wrote:Didn't see any tears but I'm fairly certain that the B-1 and B-52 were the only aircraft left after Monday.


Good stuff thanks.
jason82wells

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby CJS on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 2:50 pm

A C-17 flew in early on Sunday but I'm not sure why, was it support for the Thunderbirds?

Also what was the small commercial type jet which arrived Sunday morning? I did wonder at the time if it might have had a certain orange faced VIP on board, given that he'd been in France I think the day before?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby aviodromefriend on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 3:37 pm

CJS wrote:Also what was the small commercial type jet which arrived Sunday morning? I did wonder at the time if it might have had a certain orange faced VIP on board, given that he'd been in France I think the day before?
Two days before. Actually he won't be flying in a small commercial type jet, unless you rate a VC-25 as small.
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby jason82wells on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 5:20 pm

Just remembered a lone alpha jet of the Patrouille De France came in one day & went back the next. Was that to brief the US on the Paris flypast?
jason82wells

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby CJS on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 7:16 pm

aviodromefriend wrote:
CJS wrote:Also what was the small commercial type jet which arrived Sunday morning? I did wonder at the time if it might have had a certain orange faced VIP on board, given that he'd been in France I think the day before?
Two days before. Actually he won't be flying in a small commercial type jet, unless you rate a VC-25 as small.


Obviously not, but it occurred to me if he wanted to sneak a peak at his airforce's European birthday party without making a fuss, he'd hardly show up in AF1. But then I don't know if the PUSA would ever travel incognito or not. I imagine if he had been there we'd have known about it by now.

Anyway whatever, a small jet arrived Sunday morning that wasn't included in the movements mentioned above.

Did the lone PdF jet fly back with the Thunderbirds and join them in their flypast on the Friday?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby Dan213 on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 7:29 pm

CJS wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
CJS wrote:Also what was the small commercial type jet which arrived Sunday morning? I did wonder at the time if it might have had a certain orange faced VIP on board, given that he'd been in France I think the day before?
Two days before. Actually he won't be flying in a small commercial type jet, unless you rate a VC-25 as small.


Obviously not, but it occurred to me if he wanted to sneak a peak at his airforce's European birthday party without making a fuss, he'd hardly show up in AF1. But then I don't know if the PUSA would ever travel incognito or not. I imagine if he had been there we'd have known about it by now.

Anyway whatever, a small jet arrived Sunday morning that wasn't included in the movements mentioned above.

Did the lone PdF jet fly back with the Thunderbirds and join them in their flypast on the Friday?


Callsign was Air Force 6 so most likely a high ranking official/military officer

C17 was indeed Thunderbirds support
Dan213

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby CJS on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 8:06 pm

Thanks Dan for the info. :-)

I just remembered, Air Force One is the callsign for whatever aircraft el presidente happens to be on isn't it? Rather than specifically the VC-25 they normally use. So if he took a ride in a Piper Cherokee, that would become AF-1 for the duration of that flight. Is that right?
Chris
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CJS

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby jason82wells on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 9:54 pm

CJS wrote:
Did the lone PdF jet fly back with the Thunderbirds and join them in their flypast on the Friday?


I can't remember when it left, as in I don't recall seeing it go up but having said that, we just missed out on seeing the Raptor pair go up with the Thunderbirds as we were queuing to get through security & get in.
jason82wells

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby Dan213 on Fri 11 Aug 2017, 1:52 pm

CJS wrote:Thanks Dan for the info. :-)

I just remembered, Air Force One is the callsign for whatever aircraft el presidente happens to be on isn't it? Rather than specifically the VC-25 they normally use. So if he took a ride in a Piper Cherokee, that would become AF-1 for the duration of that flight. Is that right?
Chris


If the Cherokee was USAF then yes ;) By definition, it's the callsign of a USAF aircraft that the president is aboard
Dan213

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby cg_341 on Tue 15 Aug 2017, 10:49 am

Air Force One
Marine One
Cadillac One

Also possible but not often (or ever in the case of USCG!) used:

Navy One
Army One
Coast Guard One

Civil? Executive One.
cg_341

Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby Wissam24 on Tue 15 Aug 2017, 5:37 pm

What branch is Cadillac?
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Re: RIAT 2017 (Discussion & Participation Thread)

Postby cg_341 on Tue 15 Aug 2017, 6:26 pm

It's literally the Cadillac limo, it's the official callsign of the vehicle when he's in it (rather than The Beast, etc.!)
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