Feedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and....the Ugly...

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Pat Murphy
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Feedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and....the Ugly...

Post by Pat Murphy »

OK, for some it's not even started but for me it's all over......Legends awaits tomorrow :heyhey:
What worked? What didn't? What was a total disaster and what made you think "Yes, that was a good idea"...

For myself:

What worked? A busier Wednesday for starters, so much better than last year. 27 Park and View, well organised, friendly staff and very helpful. For the most part everybody behaved themselves as well. Very little "This is my space, I paid for it now go away" attitude and some friendly familiar faces to boot. :smile:
Friday! This definitely works for bot the enthusiast and kids, well the kids especially. Maybe it's an age thing, but I saw more groups of Brownies, Cubs and School Parties than I had either seen or noticed before and for this RIAT should be commended. Enthusing the youth of tomorrow seems to have become a key part of todays RIAT and it's a positive for me. :up:

What didn't?? Well I could have a go at the one or two and I mean just one or two idiots, amongst the front row who seem to believe that their space belongs to them and them only, but as this year, they were in the minority of just 1 or 2...I won't because that would detract from the kind and generous people at the front today who were accommodating to all including the aforementioned kids :heyhey:

If I have one gripe about Friday, it's the movement sheet..or rather the lack of it. Why oh why can RIAT not accept that not all enthusiasts use the Mach 1, 2 or 3 packages. My time away from work is precious and this means I cannot always stay for all of RIAT (ahem Legends), so why is there no Movement sheet freely available in the public areas. I wpuldn't have missed the Belgian F16 Tiger in the air and the French Alphas, if I had known they were coming today. :sad: Definitely a lessonthat hasn't been taken on board as I emailed this as a suggestion last year.....

The static was, lets be fair here, thin. Apart from a couple of obvious highlights, like the Greek F4's and one or 2 others it was pretty standard fayre. Oh for a line up of 10 or so C130's or a dozen KC135's...Oh well times they are a changing....

Total Disaster??? Well I'll leave that to those who sat in Park and View West, as Twitter was full of complaints from that end. I wasn't there but last year it was an issue for certain Star items, like the Spanish F5's for example so it would appear that ATC need some feedback on this.....thus it has always been, You can't please all of the people all of the time etc etc and the Tower deserves all credit for multiple go arounds for the F15's and Ramex Delta :drool:

A Good Idea??

The School parties and Brownie/Cubs attending. Maybe I hadn't noticed them as much before but it seems many took up the opportunity to visit and far from "getting in the way" it was refreshing to see so many kids having a great time today and getting involved. Well done RIAT. :clap:

One last thing. If that Armee de l'air Rafale doesn't win a trophy this year, then there is no justice in the world. For all the fancy F22 trickery, The Rafale was fast, full of energy and downright entertaining.

RIAT 2016: 9 out of 10 (would have been 10 but the static remains an issue numbers wise

Pat
Last edited by Wissam24 on Tue 12 Jul 2016, 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Brevet Cable
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Re: Feedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ug

Post by Brevet Cable »

Commentary was poor in my opinion , especially on the Saturday.
Lots of long pauses for no good reason , too much waffling ( including chuntering on about being in the Air Cadets when the BBMF had already rolled in to commence their display ) , too many mistakes in the display information ( most commonly saying an aircraft had finished it's display & was about to land when it hadn't ) , insufficient information as to when the next display was due to start or a display item about to take off....need I continue ?
Sunday was better information-wise , but the rest as per Saturday.
And has the acronym 'FOD' changed ? Time was when the 'D' stood for Debris not Damage ( as I was taught , it was only Damage when it had actually caused some )

Please can DBH book the Pat.Suisse commentator as the main commentator for next year's show , as not only was he amusing but his ad-libbing on the fly on Sunday was brilliant. :biggrin:

F-35 ...... apart from the noise , still meh !!
The VL was OK from what i saw of it , but it's another one of those elements which was meaningless for many people along the crowdline.

Wing-Walkers & Lemordant's Extra......why ? ....... Very short display even on the Saturday.

Probably a sacrilege to some , but I enjoyed the likes of he Strikemaster & the various non-jet displays more than most of the supposed star items.


Oh , and in case nobody's noticed , the RIAT on-line survey is already up on their website : https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/SN5XG8H
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ukaskew
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by ukaskew »

Brevet Cable wrote:The VL was OK from what i saw of it , but it's another one of those elements which was meaningless for many people along the crowdline.


I really hope future F35B displays take this on board. In the main every display distributed themselves pretty well down the entire crowdline (we were in the Green Zone, in previous years this has meant missing quite a bit of stuff on a main display day).

Considering the F35 did its showpiece thing during the display bang in the middle, then circled around to land vertically in the exact same spot, it could have at least split those and landed somewhere else so at least one of the ends got a better view. Ideally, in future, 3 STOVLs (centre, left and right) are really needed at somewhere as big as Fairford.

AFC
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by AFC »

Royal Jordanian Falcons and Breitling extra.... why even bother?

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Adie1980
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Adie1980 »

The bad:

Too many F16 & Typhoon displays (2 each would have been enough), but I do understand you get what you're given from international air arms.
In an ideal world, would have been nice to drop a few F16/typhoon displays and get that P8 Poseidon flying and something else large in the sky (would it really be that hard to get an RAF C17 from Brize to do a few flypasts?)

Disappointing lack of heavy static from RAF and USAF.
Hopefully the US will send more than one tanker and a few F15s in 2017...

The good:

Other than the aforementioned F16s/Typhoon overload and lack of another heavy or two, probably the best flying line up since I first attended RIAT in 2009.

On the whole, decent static line up with very approachable crews and some good nick-nacks on sale.

Friday show, less crammed, better weather, had plenty of time after the flying display to look around static before kicking out time.


Cannot wait until 2017, here's hoping USAF will support in force! :smile:

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mikek
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by mikek »

For me everything is fantastic except traffic & getting in & out. I can't understand why after all these years it is not much much better.

bring on 2017!
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Adie1980
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Adie1980 »

mikek wrote:For me everything is fantastic except traffic & getting in & out. I can't understand why after all these years it is not much much better.

bring on 2017!


Because country lanes & fields will most likely remain country lanes & fields... :grin:

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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by AFC »

mikek wrote:For me everything is fantastic except traffic & getting in & out. I can't understand why after all these years it is not much much better.

bring on 2017!


Traffic wasn't too bad at Red Route. On the way out, it took 10 mins to get off the base, and then after that it was clear until Oxford (but thats not RIATs fault). I left after the F-18 had taken off.
I can't really comment on traffic getting in as I arrived before 7, so there was very little traffic

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BMrider
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by BMrider »

Great Show, but the Commentary and endless music during displays seemed to annoy me and all around me, especially in the Cotswold Enclosure where they seemed to have laid on a barrage of tanoys to make sure even the deaf could hear! impossible to hold a conversation or hear the aircraft properly.

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aceyone
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by aceyone »

First RIAT for me since Greenham Common days ,thought it was very good and well organised ,however

The bad- arrived Blue car park around seven ( Sunday ) waited an hour for some family to arrive and straight into the show .except - bag went through scanning thingy and was searched cos I had two very small bottles of white wine ,which were subsequently confiscated ! I know I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer but could someone please point out to me where it states that glass bottle or not allowed ?

The over loud commentary and music during some of the displays,I know music can enhance some acts but I really just want to hear the aircraft personally .

The good apart from the aforementioned incident re the Chardonnay ( do they try and confiscate as much booze as they can and then have a rip-roaring time at the end ) getting in !

Information and helpful volunteers ,also very friendly too ,even the guy who nicked my Chardonnay looked quite apologetic ! ( probably half cut )

Static,thought it was very good considering !

Flying displays mostly excellent ,was a bit underwhelmed by the Reds/F35/F22 displays though !

Catering stalls etc ,just about right !

View was excellent,pitched up by the Aviation Club and on a slightly elevated position could see pretty good ( thanks to the chap on here who mentioned the higher ground opposite the BAE banner !

Won't moan about getting out of the ground cos that was out of RIATs control ( RTA on the M4 )

Weather wasn't too bad in spite of the early cancellations !

As Brevet said the hilarious commentary by the Swiss guy,made up for the disappointment of the Patrouille Suisse not displaying

Would I go again ? definitely !
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place

DirtyFokker
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by DirtyFokker »

I went on Saturday. The queue getting into the Blue Car Park was longer than last year ... must have been due to the extra security checks this year.

The weather restricted many of the displays, especially in the morning, so I won't complain about the display teams involved. I was more than happy to see so many F-16 and Eurofighter displays. Solo Turk was brilliant, and it was nice to see the Dutch AH-64 looping. As ever, the Chinook was entertaining. I left early to avoid the mass exodus that usually occurs at these events (and I was going to Duxford on Sunday - a really exhausting weekend :sleepy:). Overall I thought the Saturday show was good, and I will definitely return next year. I want to see the Patrouille de France at RIAT in 2017 ........

I would love to do FRIAT next year ...but the cost is a little ... steep :tongue2:

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Brevet Cable
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Brevet Cable »

aceyone wrote:The bad- arrived Blue car park around seven ( Sunday ) waited an hour for some family to arrive and straight into the show .except - bag went through scanning thingy and was searched cos I had two very small bottles of white wine ,which were subsequently confiscated ! I know I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer but could someone please point out to me where it states that glass bottle or not allowed ?

Weird , as I went in through 'Blue' on the Saturday & Sunday & didn't see any bottles being confiscated , albeit that the bottles I saw being taken through were beer/lager not wine.
Nowt in the T&Cs about no bottles , unless they lumped them under "any other item which, in the opinion of the Organisers, may cause personal injury or property damage".
Might be worth contacting DBH about it.


Forgot to mention earlier....
I note that the freeloaders were still in evidence both days over on the North fenceline , some even standing on the opposite side of the fence adjacent to where all the emergency vehicles were.
Funnily enough , the displays continued as usual.
Last edited by Brevet Cable on Mon 11 Jul 2016, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MikeLancaster65
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by MikeLancaster65 »

Thought the catering was worse than previous years and price's were steep (£5 for a pasty that turned out to be disgusting was my low point). Also what happened to the free water bowsers that have been available in previous years?

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aceyone
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by aceyone »

Brevet Cable wrote:
aceyone wrote:The bad- arrived Blue car park around seven ( Sunday ) waited an hour for some family to arrive and straight into the show .except - bag went through scanning thingy and was searched cos I had two very small bottles of white wine ,which were subsequently confiscated ! I know I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer but could someone please point out to me where it states that glass bottle or not allowed ?

Weird , as I went in through 'Blue' on the Saturday & Sunday & didn't see any bottles being confiscated , albeit that the bottles I saw being taken through were beer/lager not wine.
Nowt in the T&Cs about no bottles , unless they lumped them under "any other item which, in the opinion of the Organisers, may cause personal injury or property damage".
Might be worth contacting DBH about it.


Yes I though it strange as well ,I read T& Cs etc before and never saw owt about glass and this morning read everything thing I could and couldn't find anything about glass bottles ! I mentioned it n the feedback comments part but will try to contact RIAT to clarify the issue !
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place

LittleRedTrain
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by LittleRedTrain »

Went on Saturday, first RIAT for me and my partner we were both very impressed.

The Good:
- Excellent displays, with a great variety of fast jets and items that you wouldn't get to see anywhere else.
- Despite not getting into the show until around 9:20 (earliest that was manageable by public transport), we were still able to get a spot 5-10m from the crowdline with a good view.
- Despite the low cloudbase on Sat morning, everything still flew and did their best in the conditions.
- Mrs likes Typhoons, so she was very happy with 4 on the programme (though I think she's also developed a liking for the F-35 and F-22 as well).
- Generally a well behaved crowd around us. No kids running around causing trouble, nobody setting up gazebos or ladders right in front of us, nobody sharing their second-hand smoke. All very good-natured.
Only slight annoyance was one guy putting kid on his shoulders blocking our view of a takeoff, and another standing on a box/step-stool inside the 10m limit, so his head was in the way of departing aircraft.

The Bad:
- Shuttle buses were well organised but it's not great having to trek all the way from the yellow entrance, halfway down the airfield to be able to get to the crowdline, especially when carrying gear.
Also disappointing that there is a charge for shuttle buses when parking is free. If they want to encourage people out of their cars to reduce traffic, then shuttle buses should really be free (as per Farnborough) or even offer a discount on admission for those who arrive by public transport (as per Cosford).

- There really isn't enough time in the day to be able to watch all of the flying, have a good lock at the static and poke around the various stalls.
This is mainly because there was so much unmissable stuff in the flying display, leaving barely enough time for a toilet break. Would've been nice to have had a bit more time at the end before being kicked out, might have to do 2 days next year.
- Would also have been good to have had a luggage drop zone near the red entrance, so after the flying we could've dropped it off, had a walk all the way down the static and back unencumbered, then picked it up on our way back to the shuttle bus.

The ugly:
- The big red mark on my arm on Saturday evening. Despite putting Factor 50 on first thing, I still managed to burn! Too much time not moving and not having any shade or shelter. My fault for not reapplying the sunblock during the day.

Will definitely be going again next year, especially if the lineup is as good as this year.

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The Baron
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by The Baron »

The good:
Five days of aviation goodness.
Arrivals both days nice and busy, but not as hectic as Thursday '15 so much better.
Good selection of rarely seen aircraft amongst the old favourites both in the air and on the ground.
Ease of access and departure from Green on Sunday. Never been so quick!

The bad:
Entry in to Red on Saturday. Abysmal.
Commentary from the Breitling Enclosure. It seemed to be reverberating between two sets of speakers.
The queue to get into said enclosure. 45 minutes on Sunday.

Highlights:
In the static the F-4 Phantoms and Pakistani C-130.
In the flying the A400M, Wings of Storm and F-22 Raptor (very pleasantly surprised and impressed by it).

Miscellaneous comments:
People moan about the Wingwalkers, the Extra and the RJF. These types of displays will always be present for one reason or another. Either we can appreciate them for what they are or use them as a rest break and put the cameras down for 10 minutes.
Grey aircraft. Nothing much we can do about that but it does make for somewhat boring line ups and difficult for photography when there's heavy cloud.
The weather. Again not much point moaning, we've just got to accept it and make the most of it.
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Jones.s
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Jones.s »

Did anyone else think some of the displays seemed a lot closer than usual? not that I'm complaining, but from previous years it definitely looked closer than those orange tents.

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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Steve1k »

Hi all,
I'm probably going to be in a minority of possibly even one with my post here, as I was really disappointed with Riat this year and TBH for the first time in many years I have questioned myself about whether it has now become no value for money! :sad: IMOHO the whole event this weekend had become a trotted out Dog and Pony show where we are all expected to be excited about a dozen fast jets doing exactly the same thing for what seemed like an eternity. I know to some of you this will sound awful, but I'm going to say that "you have seen one typhoon you have seen them all" the same goes for the F16s, obviously each pilot tried to put a different slant on it and I of course admire there skill and professionalism, but after a while I was bored. what on earth the wing walkers were doing at an international air show and not the Hampshire county show or any county show for that matter, is beyond me ? The rest of the show was for me was uninspired except maybe for the unwavering enthusiasm of the Turkish commentator.

I think in my older years I have a hankering for the old days, the Biggin Hill days of the mid 70s for example, something with a bit of atmosphere ?
I am usually an optimist and was looking forward to this year like every year, but this year for me will go down as a bit of a non event.

Please don't take me too seriously if you really enjoyed it, it is only my opinion :surrender:

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andrewn
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by andrewn »

Steve1k wrote:Hi all,
I'm probably going to be in a minority of possibly even one with my post here, as I was really disappointed with RIAT this year and TBH for the first time in many years I have questioned myself about whether it has now become no value for money! :sad: IMOHO the whole event this weekend had become a trotted out Dog and Pony show where we are all expected to be excited about a dozen fast jets doing exactly the same thing for what seemed like an eternity. I know to some of you this will sound awful, but I'm going to say that "you have seen one typhoon you have seen them all" the same goes for the F16s, obviously each pilot tried to put a different slant on it and I of course admire there skill and professionalism, but after a while I was bored.


My father, who came with me said exactly the same. Certainly on the Saturday with predominantly flat displays it was a bit same'ish. Across the two main days it didn't help either that the star acts and set pieces had issues of one form or another, either technical or weather related. The other thing my father remarked on was that the absence of Vulcan, B-52, B-1 (basically anything big - A400 excepted which was very good) in the flying added to the feeling of "just another small, pointy grey jet displaying somewhere far away". From my point of view there were I thought (just) enough highlights to outweigh any negatives.

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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by JJC »

But, from a pragmatic point of view (if you need to be pragmatic when reasoning out the inclusion of more than a dozen superb fast-jet displays), the alternatives would be far worse. I'd take 4 Typhoons and 4 F-16's over one of each, and 6 lots of civilian rubbish any day of the week. The Wingwalkers were enough as it was.

If multiple Air Arms of the world choose to send the same types, then that's that. We should all be grateful to have had such a glut of fast-jets in the first place. It won't be like that every year...
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Brevet Cable
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Brevet Cable »

The Baron wrote:People moan about the Wingwalkers, the Extra and the RJF. These types of displays will always be present for one reason or another. Either we can appreciate them for what they are or use them as a rest break and put the cameras down for 10 minutes.

I enjoyed the RJF ( someone has to admit it ! )
The problem I had with the WW & Extra was that - to me - it felt like they'd no sooner commenced the displays than they ended.....in the case of the WWs it seemed like a couple ( or was it 3 ? ) of passes along the runway & that was it.
Ditto the Extra -- it felt like all of about 2 minutes-worth , whereas I was expecting a proper display along the lines of the likes of the Slingsby Firefly.
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by BMrider »

Would have loved to see one of the Phantoms display, even a afterburner take off and a touch & go with a tight circuit would have done! realise the pilots are probably not display cleared but still , maybe a circuit or two?

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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by Justhandguns »

BMrider wrote:Would have loved to see one of the Phantoms display, even a afterburner take off and a touch & go with a tight circuit would have done! realise the pilots are probably not display cleared but still , maybe a circuit or two?


I agree, I would love to see the Phantoms in the air. I was in the Viewing Village on Sat by the way. I absolutely agree with some of you have said here, some of the displays were shortened due to the very busy schedule, I would rather see less of those F-16s and Typhoons and had some other extended, such as the F-22. The Apache demo was longer in the previous years I believe, something like the Turkish solo F-16 full display. It was also a pity that the clouds were a bit low for the entire morning and we could not see some of the more spectacular vertical climbs (F-22 & 35As), which they should excel in. The poor Swiss F-5s were sadly lined up as the final display, which many people were already leaving, they should something like the Red Arrows or the F35 as the finale to keep crowd till the end. But all in all, I think I am quite happy with this year's RIAT especially with both the F-22 and F-35 flying in formation. I do hope to have the F-15s flying along with the F-22 as well, and we miss the Tornado demos with all the fireworks.

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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by speedbird2639 »

I think the whole reason that things like the F35, BBMF and the Reds etc are on in the middle of the programme is a lot of people will go after they have seen them as they are not in the slightest bit interested in the 'lesser' acts. The bloke next to me after the F35 announced "Thats all I came to see" and packed up and went. Seems like a lot of effort and money to see a plane that will be at every decent sized airshow for the next 40 years but its his choice.

I would say by me by the time the last act started 2/3 of the people had left already. If you kept a 'marquee' act back until the end you would've had 3 times as many people trying to get out of the car parks at the same time.

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CJS
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Re: Fedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and ....the Ugl

Post by CJS »

Well I thoroughly enjoyed my day out in the Gloucestershire countryside as usual - went Saturday.

Flying highlights:

Gripen, SoloTurk, MiG 29, RAF Typhoon, Belgian Viper & Rafale were all imperious fast jet displays IMHO.

Ramex Delta were wonderful to see as a pair (after one went tech last year so very glad to get the chance to see them).

The Reds remain (again, IMHO) the best team by a country mile. Do we take them for granted? Maybe, but we shouldn't. They had the benefit of a partially full height display but still knocked spots off the others.

Seeing the F-35 in the air (as opposed to plastic and on the ground in previous years :grin: ) was always going to be a bit special and so it proved.

Not fussed by their display, but seeing the Croatians display was great and the Polish support for the flying fantastic!

Flying disappointments:

Few and far between, but I actually felt a little underwhelmed by the F-22, didn't feel it was shown off like last time it came over. Il Frecce were - for them - rather lacklustre. Maybe due to the cloud but then they need to have a flat display that is just as dynamic as the full one (again, see the Reds).

The WW and the Extra are fine, I have nothing against them, but a little lost somewhere as big as FFD.

Static was well thought out and more than made up in quality anything it may have lacked in number. The tooled up P-8, Phantoms, Tiger F-16, Pakistani C-130, German Typhoons (in fact German support full stop was :clap: ), Piaggio R166, Chipmunk lineup, the New Zealand and Australian heavies (just consider for a moment the cost and logistics of that) and so on...

There won't be a better static display anywhere in the world this year, not in terms of variety, and DBH should be rightly applauded for that.

Great show, hats off to everyone involved and see you again next year :music: :rock: :clap:
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