Feedback for RIAT 2016. The good, the bad and....the Ugly...

[sithrity]

I'm a long time lurker here, but really can't believe some of what I've read this afternoon.

Its a review of an airshow, from an individuals own experience. It's been written in that person's own time, expressing his own opinions, from his own experiences and other feedback expressed on this site. You may not agree with it all....fine. Everybody has a right to their own opinion.

But the kind of crap said on here this afternoon...really you should all do better.

Andy. Thanks for taking the time to write the review which I thought was a good read. It accurately represents my view of the 2016 show. I didn't agree with the deleted FRIAT comment, however I respect your right to an opinion on this.

Steve

Some of that crap you read this afternoon is only people's opinion. Most of us appreciate Andy's (and other staff members) work on UKAR. Just saying.

[Pringles]

Its a review of an airshow, from an individuals own experience. It's been written in that person's own time, expressing his own opinions, from his own experiences and other feedback expressed on this site. You may not agree with it all....fine. Everybody has a right to their own opinion.

But the kind of crap said on here this afternoon...really you should all do better.

All we're doing is taking our own time, expressing our own opinions, from our own experiences, to review the review. Nothing of what I've read is "crap", we're merely stating that we don't agree with UK Airshow Review's airshow review, as we are entitled to do

[capercaillie]

If he got out of the stand a bit more, why anyone wants to be in there Thursday I have no idea but that is their choice, he may find other angles are available.

Live Arrivals is best carried out on a Thursday from the grandstand. I spent vast chunks of the show days outside the stand.

You're a martyr to the cause Andy, you really ought to think of yourself, put a short report out in the evening, I'm sure they can wait.

[phantomphan92]

I try not to get confrontational or fall out with people on here but I feel I've got to express my opinion on the accusations of snobbery towards Andy following his report.
To point out the behaviour issues of some FRIAT members this year is absolutely right and his comments are based on fact. As far as I'm concerned the cost of my mach 3 pass (especially now I have to get one for the wife and child as well) gives me the right to be a little protective over the seat that I've bought and paid for. Its not snobbery its just that you expect others to show a little respect knowing that someone else is supposed to be sitting there and not them.
Over the course of the weekend I lost count of the number of times I had to ask people to move, on one occasion the 3 of us stood in the aisle trying to explain to a couple of guys that the reason we were asking them to move was because they were OUR seats, the guys in question were making out it was our fault and that we should sit somewhere else. I made a point of showing him his seat number on the pass he had around his neck!
I'll also never forget the Korean lad who sat next to me, I was polite but told him my wife and son would be back in 10 minutes and that he would have to move when they were, he completely ignored me and carried on eating his chips and listening to some horrendous music on his headphones, wasn't even watching the display. Needless to say 10 minutes later he had to get up in front of everyone AGAIN in order to go source yet another seat, he did this twice it was like watching musical chairs.
The point I'm making is that it's common sense to sit in your allocated seat, every time someone has to move it results in people having to loiter in the aisles which as well as blocking peoples shots is also dangerous!
I think Andy is correct to point this out as being an issue that needs to be addressed and in doing so certainly doesn't make him or I a snob!
After all, you wouldn't buy a ticket for the theatre and sit in someone else's seat?

[aviodromefriend]

I try not to get confrontational or fall out with people on here but I feel I've got to express my opinion on the accusations of snobbery towards Andy following his report.
To point out the behaviour issues of some FRIAT members this year is absolutely right and his comments are based on fact. As far as I'm concerned the cost of my mach 3 pass (especially now I have to get one for the wife and child as well) gives me the right to be a little protective over the seat that I've bought and paid for. Its not snobbery its just that you expect others to show a little respect knowing that someone else is supposed to be sitting there and not them.
Over the course of the weekend I lost count of the number of times I had to ask people to move, on one occasion the 3 of us stood in the aisle trying to explain to a couple of guys that the reason we were asking them to move was because they were OUR seats, the guys in question were making out it was our fault and that we should sit somewhere else. I made a point of showing him his seat number on the pass he had around his neck!
I'll also never forget the Korean lad who sat next to me, I was polite but told him my wife and son would be back in 10 minutes and that he would have to move when they were, he completely ignored me and carried on eating his chips and listening to some horrendous music on his headphones, wasn't even watching the display. Needless to say 10 minutes later he had to get up in front of everyone AGAIN in order to go source yet another seat, he did this twice it was like watching musical chairs.
The point I'm making is that it's common sense to sit in your allocated seat, every time someone has to move it results in people having to loiter in the aisles which as well as blocking peoples shots is also dangerous!
I think Andy is correct to point this out as being an issue that needs to be addressed and in doing so certainly doesn't make him or I a snob!
After all, you wouldn't buy a ticket for the theatre and sit in someone else's seat?

But still, is this an issue to be discussed in this review, or should it be adressed within the boundaries of FRIAT? (and before you ask, in a theater, cinema or aircraft I should approach a member of staff. In my experiences this impresses especially people from the Far East much more, so they MIGHT obey what they tell him).

[cg_341]

As some who cannot afford a Mach whatever pass, and wouldn't get one even if he could, I really couldn't care less about what goes on in the FRIAT stand.

Andy, at the end of the day, it's your opinions in an article. I simply feel that it is too biased towards your experience of a small part of a larger event, and doesn't really cover the event particularly well. However, it's your toybox to play with how you like, so if that's the article you want to write, then do so!

[CJS]

Well anyone can write for UKAR, I have asked that question in the past, so perhaps you'd like to put us all out of our misery and do a better job?

Didn't think so

[Georgeconna]

FRIAT stands sound like comedy gold. Ryhmes was great in comparison it seems. No Knuckleheads.

[Dan O'Hagan]

FRIAT stands sound like comedy gold. Ryhmes was great in comparison it seems. No Knuckleheads.

Where is this "Ryhmes"? Is it a replacement for Rhymes, which was closed?

[capercaillie]

Well anyone can write for UKAR, I have asked that question in the past, so perhaps you'd like to put us all out of our misery and do a better job?

Didn't think so

That's an interesting post Chris, you answer a question put out to the membership before the membership even had a chance to respond!

[Chris IL-76]

Another great show......next

[Pringles]

Didn't think so

Maybe we wouldn't write one for UKAR

[CJS]

Well anyone can write for UKAR, I have asked that question in the past, so perhaps you'd like to put us all out of our misery and do a better job?

Didn't think so

That's an interesting post Chris, you answer a question put out to the membership before the membership even had a chance to respond!

Sorry should have made it clear that was aimed at a certain Mr H Aviation only

[phantomphan92]

I try not to get confrontational or fall out with people on here but I feel I've got to express my opinion on the accusations of snobbery towards Andy following his report.
To point out the behaviour issues of some FRIAT members this year is absolutely right and his comments are based on fact. As far as I'm concerned the cost of my mach 3 pass (especially now I have to get one for the wife and child as well) gives me the right to be a little protective over the seat that I've bought and paid for. Its not snobbery its just that you expect others to show a little respect knowing that someone else is supposed to be sitting there and not them.
Over the course of the weekend I lost count of the number of times I had to ask people to move, on one occasion the 3 of us stood in the aisle trying to explain to a couple of guys that the reason we were asking them to move was because they were OUR seats, the guys in question were making out it was our fault and that we should sit somewhere else. I made a point of showing him his seat number on the pass he had around his neck!
I'll also never forget the Korean lad who sat next to me, I was polite but told him my wife and son would be back in 10 minutes and that he would have to move when they were, he completely ignored me and carried on eating his chips and listening to some horrendous music on his headphones, wasn't even watching the display. Needless to say 10 minutes later he had to get up in front of everyone AGAIN in order to go source yet another seat, he did this twice it was like watching musical chairs.
The point I'm making is that it's common sense to sit in your allocated seat, every time someone has to move it results in people having to loiter in the aisles which as well as blocking peoples shots is also dangerous!
I think Andy is correct to point this out as being an issue that needs to be addressed and in doing so certainly doesn't make him or I a snob!
After all, you wouldn't buy a ticket for the theatre and sit in someone else's seat?

But still, is this an issue to be discussed in this review, or should it be adressed within the boundaries of FRIAT? (and before you ask, in a theater, cinema or aircraft I should approach a member of staff. In my experiences this impresses especially people from the Far East much more, so they MIGHT obey what they tell him).

I take your point about FRIAT issues being discussed in an overall review, however, I haven't seen anywhere else, any other thread or any FRIAT specific review where it could be discussed and I'm sure its a lot easier for Andy to include a paragraph within the main review than it is to write a completely separate one for FRIAT.
Regarding your point about members of staff, that would be one way to deal with it, problem being is that having FRIAT staff policing the stand, running up and down the steps to move people every five minutes would just add to the issue of congestion and blocking. The best way is for members to take responsibility for themselves, apart from my own son I remember seeing only a couple of other kids in the stand meaning that 99.9 percent of people in there were adults and should be more than capable of managing themselves.
In defence of the guilty parties I think it was only such an issue this year because of the space available and the fact it was so squashed.

[HeyfordDave111]

I hate to disagree, but there were plenty of 'enthusiasts' in the FRIAT stand who just wouldn't duck when something was passing or taking off.

A few on the back row near the 80's were quite problematic as well as a good few on the rows beneath them.

They did not want to duck, sit down, or just lower themselves accordingly, and in fact when asked some responded arrogantly and quite angrily.

Not sure, if it doesn't get policed, that it won't escalate one day, when some 'enthusiast' has had enough of being told to 'get down' and acts accordingly to his mental capacity. Sooner or later if these people fail to understand or comply with simple ways of the stand, it may just erupt. After all 'they've paid their money too' will be their response at the minimum.

The trouble is, policing is problematic, as you tend to find, as in theatres, cinema's and gigs, no one will man handle anyone out anymore should they disturb others enjoyment etc. the police don't want to know, and I doubt the courts will either.

The only way to stamp it out is make it a policy that any one caught spoiling anyone's enjoyment his way will have their RIAT ticket refused without refund for the following day (at least it will give us a bit more space in the stand if they did) lol

[cg_341]

Is there a rule against standing, out of interest?

[boff180]

Is there a rule against standing, out of interest?

Yes there is (was detailed in the membership pack).
There is no standing in the grandstand except on row A (and is one of the reasons why row A is so coveted as usually it allows better movement/more space as a result).... unless moving to/from your seat where people are asked to be "courteous" to other members (big signs in front of grandstand entrances). The no standing rule is one of the very few written rules in FRIAT.

[phantomphan92]

I hate to disagree, but there were plenty of 'enthusiasts' in the FRIAT stand who just wouldn't duck when something was passing or taking off.

A few on the back row near the 80's were quite problematic as well as a good few on the rows beneath them.

They did not want to duck, sit down, or just lower themselves accordingly, and in fact when asked some responded arrogantly and quite angrily.

Not sure, if it doesn't get policed, that it won't escalate one day, when some 'enthusiast' has had enough of being told to 'get down' and acts accordingly to his mental capacity. Sooner or later if these people fail to understand or comply with simple ways of the stand, it may just erupt. After all 'they've paid their money too' will be their response at the minimum.

The trouble is, policing is problematic, as you tend to find, as in theatres, cinema's and gigs, no one will man handle anyone out anymore should they disturb others enjoyment etc. the police don't want to know, and I doubt the courts will either.

The only way to stamp it out is make it a policy that any one caught spoiling anyone's enjoyment his way will have their RIAT ticket refused without refund for the following day (at least it will give us a bit more space in the stand if they did) lol

We were a couple of rows down in the 70's and suffered exactly the same issues, the biggest problem I had was that all week I had been preparing a 7 year old for being aware that he had to remain seated to not block peoples view and constantly throughout the weekend I had to hear him complain that adults twice his size were standing in front of him so he couldn't see anything, I actually felt quite bad for him as he couldn't understand why he's being told one thing by me and others are clearly doing the opposite. He had a go with my camera a few times and got lots of 'backs of heads' lol

[HeyfordDave111]

I hate to disagree, but there were plenty of 'enthusiasts' in the FRIAT stand who just wouldn't duck when something was passing or taking off.

A few on the back row near the 80's were quite problematic as well as a good few on the rows beneath them.

They did not want to duck, sit down, or just lower themselves accordingly, and in fact when asked some responded arrogantly and quite angrily.

Not sure, if it doesn't get policed, that it won't escalate one day, when some 'enthusiast' has had enough of being told to 'get down' and acts accordingly to his mental capacity. Sooner or later if these people fail to understand or comply with simple ways of the stand, it may just erupt. After all 'they've paid their money too' will be their response at the minimum.

The trouble is, policing is problematic, as you tend to find, as in theatres, cinema's and gigs, no one will man handle anyone out anymore should they disturb others enjoyment etc. the police don't want to know, and I doubt the courts will either.

The only way to stamp it out is make it a policy that any one caught spoiling anyone's enjoyment his way will have their RIAT ticket refused without refund for the following day (at least it will give us a bit more space in the stand if they did) lol

We were a couple of rows down in the 70's and suffered exactly the same issues, the biggest problem I had was that all week I had been preparing a 7 year old for being aware that he had to remain seated to not block peoples view and constantly throughout the weekend I had to hear him complain that adults twice his size were standing in front of him so he couldn't see anything, I actually felt quite bad for him as he couldn't understand why he's being told one thing by me and others are clearly doing the opposite. He had a go with my camera a few times and got lots of 'backs of heads' lol

Quite a few children sat and enjoyed their time there and were a credit to their parents and themselves.
Some adults, however, should not, in my opinion, be in FRIAT if all they are going to do is stand there telling people where to get off when others are trying to take photographs.

Quite a draconian idea this, but how about a gate across every entrance to the stand to stop people entering the stand while something is happening, rather like they don't allow people to enter a theatre until a break in the song, or performance somehow?

I know that one will get me peters from some on here. Lol

[phantomphan92]

I hate to disagree, but there were plenty of 'enthusiasts' in the FRIAT stand who just wouldn't duck when something was passing or taking off.

A few on the back row near the 80's were quite problematic as well as a good few on the rows beneath them.

They did not want to duck, sit down, or just lower themselves accordingly, and in fact when asked some responded arrogantly and quite angrily.

Not sure, if it doesn't get policed, that it won't escalate one day, when some 'enthusiast' has had enough of being told to 'get down' and acts accordingly to his mental capacity. Sooner or later if these people fail to understand or comply with simple ways of the stand, it may just erupt. After all 'they've paid their money too' will be their response at the minimum.

The trouble is, policing is problematic, as you tend to find, as in theatres, cinema's and gigs, no one will man handle anyone out anymore should they disturb others enjoyment etc. the police don't want to know, and I doubt the courts will either.

The only way to stamp it out is make it a policy that any one caught spoiling anyone's enjoyment his way will have their RIAT ticket refused without refund for the following day (at least it will give us a bit more space in the stand if they did) lol

We were a couple of rows down in the 70's and suffered exactly the same issues, the biggest problem I had was that all week I had been preparing a 7 year old for being aware that he had to remain seated to not block peoples view and constantly throughout the weekend I had to hear him complain that adults twice his size were standing in front of him so he couldn't see anything, I actually felt quite bad for him as he couldn't understand why he's being told one thing by me and others are clearly doing the opposite. He had a go with my camera a few times and got lots of 'backs of heads' lol

Quite a few children sat and enjoyed their time there and were a credit to their parents and themselves.
Some adults, however, should not, in my opinion, be in FRIAT if all they are going to do is stand there telling people where to get off when others are trying to take photographs.

Quite a draconian idea this, but how about a gate across every entrance to the stand to stop people entering the stand while something is happening, rather like they don't allow people to enter a theatre until a break in the song, or performance somehow?

I know that one will get me peters from some on here. Lol

Agreed on the points about both kids and adults, many adults were quite shown up by the good behaviour of the kids around them!

Dunno about the gate idea though, could end up with all sorts of carnage

[steveb23]

Just don't get this special breed of human the "aviation photographer" who thinks they have more rights than anyone else to watch an air display.

Someone's finding their seat during a display. Oh no! You might miss part of one pass....

Just my opinion.....

[HeyfordDave111]

When you pay for the right, and the rules of having those rights are laid out.......you have......the right. Right? Lol

[mikek]

Just don't get this special breed of human the "aviation photographer" who thinks they have more rights than anyone else to watch an air display.

Someone's finding their seat during a display. Oh no! You might miss part of one pass....

Just my opinion.....

have to agree with this. people should be considerate, but if you're going to an airshow to take pics of planes there are going to be people potentially getting in the way. Especially if you sit in a grandstand!
Perhaps be a bit more adventurous than the other snappers and choose a better spot (I.E. not in a grandstand )?

tbh, it is just as easy for a photographer to spoil someone else's view as vice-versa and probably happens at least as much. It is also very distracting, but you generally don't complain. I'm sure it must be even more distracting to be in the grandstand & have a photograher nearby - taking pics of the exact same plane from the exact same angle as thousands of others.

Both pay the same money.

[capercaillie]

Just don't get this special breed of human the "aviation photographer" who thinks they have more rights than anyone else to watch an air display.

Someone's finding their seat during a display. Oh no! You might miss part of one pass....

Just my opinion.....

have to agree with this. people should be considerate, but if you're going to an airshow to take pics of planes there are going to be people potentially getting in the way. Especially if you sit in a grandstand!
Perhaps be a bit more adventurous than the other snappers and choose a better spot (I.E. not in a grandstand )?

tbh, it is just as easy for a photographer to spoil someone else's view as vice-versa and probably happens at least as much. It is also very distracting, but you generally don't complain. I'm sure it must be even more distracting to be in the grandstand & have a photograher nearby - taking pics of the exact same plane from the exact same angle as thousands of others.

Both pay the same money.

I'd stick to wanting see missiles fired.........

[RAF4EVER]

Was this review an endorsement of FRIAT, or an ad to get people to buy FRIAT passes for next year. What ever it was it didn`t convince me, and next year I shall do Riat as I normally do, go as one of the great unwashed , and join the crush at the end of the runway.