Kevyboy1979 wrote:No offence to anyone with kids as I have 2 myself but last year was my 1st ever RIAT and I camped right across from the base.....I queued from 6 am to make sure I got a spot at the rope....Later in the day some kids started to try and get sitting in front of me and how did they do this? By climbing over all my camera gear and bags which cost over a grand...Now if people want a spot at the rope then queue and get there early like others and don't complain about people like me with my big lens and scanner cause at the end of the day would you be paying to fix anyones gear ur child may have broke? And why do kids need at the front they just get bored and start playing up and spoil it for the real enthusiasts.
I had the same problem at Cosford. Here’s a tip for the future: constantly tut in the direction of the parent(s) whilst shaking your head. Works an absolute treat.
All jokes aside, I think it’s great for children to have an interest in aviation, but why do they feel the need to push to the front without asking? If I was a parent, I might encourage them to ask those on the crowdline politely if they can squeeze in or just watch from slightly further back.
If a child asks, I will always happily let them step in front - especially as airshows are all about inspiring the younger generations!
Kevyboy1979 wrote:No offence to anyone with kids as I have 2 myself but last year was my 1st ever RIAT and I camped right across from the base.....I queued from 6 am to make sure I got a spot at the rope....Later in the day some kids started to try and get sitting in front of me and how did they do this? By climbing over all my camera gear and bags which cost over a grand...Now if people want a spot at the rope then queue and get there early like others and don't complain about people like me with my big lens and scanner cause at the end of the day would you be paying to fix anyones gear ur child may have broke? And why do kids need at the front they just get bored and start playing up and spoil it for the real enthusiasts.
I had the same problem at Cosford. Here’s a tip for the future: constantly tut in the direction of the parent(s) whilst shaking your head. Works an absolute treat.
All jokes aside, I think it’s great for children to have an interest in aviation, but why do they feel the need to push to the front without asking? If I was a parent, I might encourage them to ask those on the crowdline politely if they can squeeze in or just watch from slightly further back.
If a child asks, I will always happily let them step in front - especially as airshows are all about inspiring the younger generations!
Probably because there's a row of tall blokes with massive lenses standing up at the front the whole time, blocking the view for everyone else.
I would happily let a child in front if I was asked I just hate these people that presume it's OK for their children to climb over people's stuff just to see something that will be in the sky anyway......out of all the years I have been going to airshows which is over 35 years never yet have a seen a child more than 10 holding a camera so really there is no need for them to be at the front as the ones at the front are mostly taking photos which the kids are not doing
Please RIAT, do something! Announce something, anything!! I'd much rather us argue about a microlight being announced than what's being discussed at present. Can't the who/what has a right to be at the fence discussion get it's own thread? I can't explain why but it makes me uncomfortable.
Hey, the weather forecast still hasn't announced any weather for early July yet. In this special year I'm hoping they confirm wall to wall sunshine soon.
I wonder if there will be more toilets available this year...
Anyone seen any more stickers on RAF aircraft recently?
harkins wrote:Please RIAT, do something! Announce something, anything!! I'd much rather us argue about a microlight being announced than what's being discussed at present. Can't the who/what has a right to be at the fence discussion get it's own thread? I can't explain why but it makes me uncomfortable.
Hey, the weather forecast still hasn't announced any weather for early July yet. In this special year I'm hoping they confirm wall to wall sunshine soon.
I wonder if there will be more toilets available this year...
Anyone seen any more stickers on RAF aircraft recently?
Isn't this thread RIAT 2018 discussion? So surely means anything to do with RIAT 2018??
What do you call a horse that lives nextdoor?? - A Neigh-bour!
Whisky Connoisseur
harkins wrote:Please RIAT, do something! Announce something, anything!! I'd much rather us argue about a microlight being announced than what's being discussed at present. Can't the who/what has a right to be at the fence discussion get it's own thread? I can't explain why but it makes me uncomfortable.
Hey, the weather forecast still hasn't announced any weather for early July yet. In this special year I'm hoping they confirm wall to wall sunshine soon.
I wonder if there will be more toilets available this year...
Anyone seen any more stickers on RAF aircraft recently?
I agree massively. Although i strongly agree about the tents/ladders not being no where near the front it should be discussed elsewhere. When i click on this thread i expect to see us participating in discussion in excitement about what should be a memorable year. I feel as though due to the slight slow start, people are bringing up issues that are not even there.
harkins wrote:Please RIAT, do something! Announce something, anything!! I'd much rather us argue about a microlight being announced than what's being discussed at present. Can't the who/what has a right to be at the fence discussion get it's own thread? I can't explain why but it makes me uncomfortable.
Hey, the weather forecast still hasn't announced any weather for early July yet. In this special year I'm hoping they confirm wall to wall sunshine soon.
I wonder if there will be more toilets available this year...
Anyone seen any more stickers on RAF aircraft recently?
Isn't this thread RIAT 2018 discussion? So surely means anything to do with RIAT 2018??
You're right, it is. The problem with that particular discussion is that it isn't specific to RIAT or even this year. It's a debate that has gone on for years around every airshow and I suppose will continue to go on. And when you read the posts there is just an awful sense of selfish entitlement from both sides which doesn't make comfortable reading. Anyway, that was just my opinion so everyone is free to continue discussing whether bored/hyperactive 5 year old children or overweight 55 year old men with large cameras have the greater right to be at the fence line.
Max Holste Broussard from the real aeroplane company is reported as coming according to there facebook page. [fb-post]https://www.facebook.com/realaero/posts/1910222448987747[/fb-post]
harkins wrote:Please RIAT, do something! Announce something, anything!! I'd much rather us argue about a microlight being announced than what's being discussed at present. Can't the who/what has a right to be at the fence discussion get it's own thread? I can't explain why but it makes me uncomfortable.
Hey, the weather forecast still hasn't announced any weather for early July yet. In this special year I'm hoping they confirm wall to wall sunshine soon.
I wonder if there will be more toilets available this year...
Anyone seen any more stickers on RAF aircraft recently?
Isn't this thread RIAT 2018 discussion? So surely means anything to do with RIAT 2018??
You're right, it is. The problem with that particular discussion is that it isn't specific to RIAT or even this year. It's a debate that has gone on for years around every airshow and I suppose will continue to go on.
What, like which aircraft might be attending, the number of loos and what the weather will be like you mean?
Luke28 wrote:Theres only one way to settle it really. Royal Rumble!
Buy the sky and sell the sky and lift your arms up to the sky and ask the sky"
CJS wrote:What, like which aircraft might be attending, the number of loos and what the weather will be like you mean?
Touché
If I'm going to give in and discuss who should be allowed a place at the fence then I will tell you who should be allowed at the fence. They're the people who get up very early, get there very early and forgo the static and tat stalls to head directly to a spot on the fence line. They don't bring wives, kids, pets, friends, neighbours or camping equipment with them. They keep themselves fit enough so that they can stand all day and thus don't need to bring an enormous camping chair to sit on and waste space. They have a semi pro camera, but with a sensible lens - not one of those Hubble telescope type things that they can't afford. They're polite and courteous to other people and will happily mind their spot whilst they nip to the toilet. What else? Oh they'll be friendly enough to have a chat with, but won't bend your ear relentlessly all day. They'll know a bit about the subject of military aviation but won't be a bloody know it all. And they're no taller than 5ft 8" so people behind can still see a bit. So basically people like me. Everyone else should go and do something else and leave me alone to have my perfect day
CJS wrote:What, like which aircraft might be attending, the number of loos and what the weather will be like you mean?
Touché
If I'm going to give in and discuss who should be allowed a place at the fence then I will tell you who should be allowed at the fence. They're the people who get up very early, get there very early and forgo the static and tat stalls to head directly to a spot on the fence line. They don't bring wives, kids, pets, friends, neighbours or camping equipment with them. They keep themselves fit enough so that they can stand all day and thus don't need to bring an enormous camping chair to sit on and waste space. They have a semi pro camera, but with a sensible lens - not one of those Hubble telescope type things that they can't afford. They're polite and courteous to other people and will happily mind their spot whilst they nip to the toilet. What else? Oh they'll be friendly enough to have a chat with, but won't bend your ear relentlessly all day. They'll know a bit about the subject of military aviation but won't be a bloody know it all. And they're no taller than 5ft 8" so people behind can still see a bit. So basically people like me. Everyone else should go and do something else and leave me alone to have my perfect day
Ah the people who do all what you say and then bugger off for hours leaving some lonely equipment and a sad chair on their own to enjoy the flying, but they're at the front so they are happy!!
What do you call a horse that lives nextdoor?? - A Neigh-bour!
Whisky Connoisseur
"pets are not permitted at the air tattoo, please do not bring your pet dog, cat, hamster or gold fish to the show as you will be asked to leave. And please please please don't leave them in the car or one of the commentators might get really rather cross."
Maybe they could have one of those height things you get at theme parks. If you got under it, you're allowed at the front.
Buy the sky and sell the sky and lift your arms up to the sky and ask the sky"
The pushing and shoving seems to be getting much worse recently (and at gigs too incidentally). I don't ever mind if someone asks to nip to the front to get a photo of something specific, but pushing to the front without asking (at any age) is incredibly annoying and really rather rude.
Maybe they should put a solid 12 foot fence along the entire display line totally obscuring the view of take off and landings and then there'd be no point being at the front. Everyone would have near as damn it the same view of the displays whether 10 meters or 50 meters back. Problem solved.
As it would be anywhere else. I imagine most of the pushers and shovers at airshows (or gigs) probably still go and happily (or as happily as they ever do anything) form an orderly queue at the loos when their designated 'loo break' taxis out.
I've not been to any airshows outside the UK, but I wonder what the problem is like elsewhere?
Buy the sky and sell the sky and lift your arms up to the sky and ask the sky"
Kevyboy1979 wrote:out of all the years I have been going to airshows which is over 35 years never yet have a seen a child more than 10 holding a camera so really there is no need for them to be at the front
Maybe they want to see the aircraft landing? Wave at the pilot? See them streaming a chute? You don't have to be a photographer to earn the right to be at the front. I understand your point about pushing and that's fair enough... have a word with the parents then if you are that worried.
harkins wrote:Maybe they should put a solid 12 foot fence along the entire display line totally obscuring the view of take off and landings and then there'd be no point being at the front. Everyone would have near as damn it the same view of the displays whether 10 meters or 50 meters back. Problem solved.
Buy the sky and sell the sky and lift your arms up to the sky and ask the sky"
CJS wrote:As it would be anywhere else. I imagine most of the pushers and shovers at airshows (or gigs) probably still go and happily (or as happily as they ever do anything) form an orderly queue at the loos when their designated 'loo break' taxis out.
I've not been to any airshows outside the UK, but I wonder what the problem is like elsewhere?
Ah tis nothing compared to the Departures day am Scrum. Some serious manouvres there for sure.
Skipped it last year, Might do the same again, did not miss the hassle. Might try Poland some for some class stuff.
Kevyboy1979 wrote:out of all the years I have been going to airshows which is over 35 years never yet have a seen a child more than 10 holding a camera so really there is no need for them to be at the front
Maybe they want to see the aircraft landing? Wave at the pilot? See them streaming a chute? You don't have to be a photographer to earn the right to be at the front. I understand your point about pushing and that's fair enough... have a word with the parents then if you are that worried.
It verges on comical that you even need to make this point. Watching an aircraft take off at close quarters is hard to beat, especially as an unintiated youngster! There is more to life than photography...
MiG_Eater wrote: Watching an aircraft take off at close quarters is hard to beat, especially as an unintiated youngster!
Yes, I have a masters in aeronautical engineering and it still amazes me that several tons of metal can just float into thin air. Add thunderous noise and flames shooting out the back and you can understand the appeal to youngsters who are still learning about the world. Aviation is going to play an even bigger role in the future and it's good to get them interested in it at a young age.
harkins wrote:Maybe they should put a solid 12 foot fence along the entire display line totally obscuring the view of take off and landings and then there'd be no point being at the front. Everyone would have near as damn it the same view of the displays whether 10 meters or 50 meters back. Problem solved.
Ah but, grandstands would get an even bigger wall with barbed wire on top. And the posh enclosures with the garden furniture would not only get a fence, but a roof too! Although, they probably wouldn't notice as long as they don't run out of Pimms and Persian Spiced Chicken with Pomegranate & Saffron.
By the way, your illustration is fantastic. You should have got the RAF100 branding gig!
We should all know within the next two weeks. I was curious so I put a freedom of information request into the MoD asking for the supplier and cost of the RAF100 branding. I'll post the answer here if I get a response.
That's a catchy strap line by the way.
Last edited by verreli on Mon 16 Apr 2018, 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
