RIAT 2018 discussion

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verreli
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by verreli »

Another change from the Paris demo is that the 3F software will be available giving it a 9g turn vs 7g at Paris. This can only improve the display potential.

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st24
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by st24 »

capercaillie wrote:
“All of those airplanes that do air shows—the Hornet, Viper—they are all slicked off without all the external stores,” Flynn said. “They are a party trick at an air show, versus a combat-configured F-22 or F-35.”

That is complete nonsense isn't it? The '22 and' 35 display totally clean/empty. An F-16 with smokewinders is more heavily laden than them! Hell, Lightnings used to display with a full warload every time! :grin:
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HeyfordDave111
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

The Bae typhoon display in recent years has been with a dirty typhoon, and it was flown better than the raf clean version.
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CJS
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by CJS »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:The Bae typhoon display in recent years has been with a dirty typhoon, and it was flown better than the RAF clean version.


But the argument isn't about which is displayed better (or worse) - I thought this was all about the ability to perform a (near) vertical move as part of the take off?

st24 wrote:
capercaillie wrote:
“All of those airplanes that do air shows—the Hornet, Viper—they are all slicked off without all the external stores,” Flynn said. “They are a party trick at an air show, versus a combat-configured F-22 or F-35.”

That is complete nonsense isn't it? The '22 and' 35 display totally clean/empty. An F-16 with smokewinders is more heavily laden than them! Hell, Lightnings used to display with a full warload every time! :grin:


Empty yes, but isn't the point of the F-22 and -35 that they are meant to be clean. In fact they wouldn't look any different if they were displayed with a full weapons load, because their weapons are designed to be held internally. Whilst this would effect the weight (and therefore performance) it wouldn't change the aerodynamics of the aircraft, whereas hanging missiles off an F-16 or an F-18 would.

I think (and I may be wrong, it has happened...) that Flynn is suggesting that a combat ready F-22 would still be able to perform its display, whereas a combat ready F-16 would have to change it considerably.
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capercaillie
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by capercaillie »

CJS wrote:I think (and I may be wrong, it has happened...) that Flynn is suggesting that a combat ready F-22 would still be able to perform its display, whereas a combat ready F-16 would have to change it considerably.


But they aren't - they don't have weapons equivalent, and they would have to change a display dynamic if they were fuelled up for a combat mission. If you didn't fuel an F-35 up, it would struggle to leave Gloucestershire, which is bad as Wiltshire is only 2 miles away! :grin:

Its like saying XH558 was combat ready with an empty bomb bay and a small amount of fuel, as well as 40 tons of its innards left in a hangar somewhere.

He will start with an afterburner takeoff, almost immediately pointing his nose to the sky and letting the aircraft climb away essentially vertically. This impressive move is unique to the F-22 and the F-35, he said. And I maintain however much you read into it, that quote is utter billhooks. Typical all American flag waving male cow droppings.
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Wissam24
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Wissam24 »

We saw two Rafales do exactly the same in formation last year.
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boff180
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by boff180 »

st24 wrote:
capercaillie wrote:
“All of those airplanes that do air shows—the Hornet, Viper—they are all slicked off without all the external stores,” Flynn said. “They are a party trick at an air show, versus a combat-configured F-22 or F-35.”

That is complete nonsense isn't it? The '22 and' 35 display totally clean/empty. An F-16 with smokewinders is more heavily laden than them! Hell, Lightnings used to display with a full warload every time! :grin:


It's poor wording. It's not a weight issue, it's a drag issue.

When combat loaded internally, the F-22 and Raptor are far "slicker" than their counterparts being combat loaded or with some external stores loaded... with the Super Hornet being the worst - the drag effect from stores can be huge and have more effect than their weight (for display that can be overcome by carrying minimal fuel). That gives them a significant performance edge in terms of acceleration and energy loss in a turn vs. a combat loaded jet.

Super Hornet suffers the most because the external stores pylons on the wings are canted outwards which makes the stores, and the pylons, have an even higher drag coefficient!

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st24
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by st24 »

boff180 wrote:
st24 wrote:
capercaillie wrote:
“All of those airplanes that do air shows—the Hornet, Viper—they are all slicked off without all the external stores,” Flynn said. “They are a party trick at an air show, versus a combat-configured F-22 or F-35.”

That is complete nonsense isn't it? The '22 and' 35 display totally clean/empty. An F-16 with smokewinders is more heavily laden than them! Hell, Lightnings used to display with a full warload every time! :grin:


It's poor wording. It's not a weight issue, it's a drag issue.

When combat loaded internally, the F-22 and Raptor are far "slicker" than their counterparts being combat loaded or with some external stores loaded... with the Super Hornet being the worst - the drag effect from stores can be huge and have more effect than their weight (for display that can be overcome by carrying minimal fuel). That gives them a significant performance edge in terms of acceleration and energy loss in a turn vs. a combat loaded jet.

Super Hornet suffers the most because the external stores pylons on the wings are canted outwards which makes the stores, and the pylons, have an even higher drag coefficient!

All that's a given. It's the statement “They are a party trick at an air show, versus a combat-configured F-22 or F-35" that I have issue with. Neither display combat-configured, otherwise I could say that when I used to watch a Buccaneer display I could say it was "combat-configured" And let's face it most of the Raptors display is party tricks, as is the much better TV Flankers.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Airshowhammer »

Let the Ukrainian rumours begin!

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rdchawk
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by rdchawk »

Airshowhammer wrote:Let the Ukrainian rumours begin!


They are not appearing this year.
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Go4Long
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Go4Long »

Airshowhammer wrote:Let the Ukrainian rumours begin!


Is there a post somewhere again?

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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Airshowhammer »

Their facebook, 831 tactical brigade posting ‘we would like to attend this year.’ Will they wont they? :grin:

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Go4Long
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Go4Long »

Airshowhammer wrote:Their facebook, 831 tactical brigade posting ‘we would like to attend this year.’ Will they wont they? :grin:


Not seeing that in their comments. Hmmm.

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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Airshowhammer »

Go4Long wrote:
Airshowhammer wrote:Their facebook, 831 tactical brigade posting ‘we would like to attend this year.’ Will they wont they? :grin:


Not seeing that in their comments. Hmmm.


Go to there most recent video.
Wouldn't make it up. :roll:

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Brevet Cable
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Brevet Cable »

Maybe if you just post the link to what you say you read...it would make things a heck of a lot easier than expecting others to attempt to find it.
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The Baron
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by The Baron »

It is there. I think (currently) the third video down. Basically just replying to someone who said they'd like to see them back at RIAT this year. Reply is simply "We hope to".
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jason82wells
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by jason82wells »

The Baron wrote:It is there. I think (currently) the third video down. Basically just replying to someone who said they'd like to see them back at RIAT this year. Reply is simply "We hope to".


Cheers for sharing the wording. Looks like a solid self-confirmation to me :pinkwafer: :lmao:

In all seriousness though, DBH know how much of a hit the Ukrainians were last year & will be undoubtedly keen to get them back over. Nice to read they're hoping to come back too!

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Go4Long
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Go4Long »

Them wanting to is like...half the battle isn't it? :lol:

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HeyfordDave111
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by HeyfordDave111 »

Ukrainians with Fencers this time please. That would be a real coup for RIAT.
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jason82wells
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by jason82wells »

HeyfordDave111 wrote:Ukrainians with Fencers this time please. That would be a real coup for RIAT.


It certainly would! I'd love to see the Japanese tanker return only this year dragging a fighter or two over, even if to sit on static.

Are the Polish still doing their Fulcrum displays?

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CJS
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by CJS »

jason82wells wrote:
HeyfordDave111 wrote:Ukrainians with Fencers this time please. That would be a real coup for RIAT.


It certainly would! I'd love to see the Japanese tanker return only this year dragging a fighter or two over, even if to sit on static.

Are the Polish still doing their Fulcrum displays?



viewtopic.php?f=19&t=78152&start=275 :-P
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harkins
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by harkins »

Quick question; having had to largely miss the two last events I haven't noticed, but what has replaced the Sea King as fire-guard?

(Not sure if fire-guard is the correct term)

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Gonzo230
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Gonzo230 »

Nothing, there is no longer a ‘Fireball’ helicopter.

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harkins
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by harkins »

Really? Makes you wonder why they ever had one if it seemingly isn't necessary now.

I'll miss that bright yellow blob in the background of many of my photos.

Albion143
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Post by Albion143 »

Airshow News NL reporting on twitter that Solo Turk has confirmed :yahoo:

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