RIAT 2018 discussion

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 11:32 am

Last years was £12 on the day - that’s a 25% price increase for 2018.


A lot of money for what is basically a glossy collection of adverts or adverts masquerading as articles for BAe, Airbus and the like. I haven't bothered with one for years not since they were £5 on the day and I thought they were poor value at that price. The only page anyone is interested on the day is the running order of the display and given print schedules and aircraft availability it is usually well out of date by the time the show opens.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Berf on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 12:06 pm

boff180 wrote:From an email this morning advertising pre-order of the 2018 programme...

The 2018 programme is going to be priced at £15 - and can be preordered for £12.

Last years was £12 on the day - that’s a 25% price increase for 2018.


For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.
Berf

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:13 am

Berf wrote:
boff180 wrote:From an email this morning advertising pre-order of the 2018 programme...

The 2018 programme is going to be priced at £15 - and can be preordered for £12.

Last years was £12 on the day - that’s a 25% price increase for 2018.


For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby aviodromefriend on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 8:16 pm

ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 11:17 pm

£15 for a book of adverts. Anyone who buys one frankly deserves no sympathy at all. The programme's costs are heavily subsidised by the likes of BAE Systems and Lockheed-Martin, I'd be amazed if it cost RAFCTE much over a pound per copy, if that.

Let's be frank, the cost of a trip to RIAT, unless you are on a Mach 3 pass (or have blagged free access) is now spiralling to the realms of insanity, and all for diminishing returns in terms of the flying display.

£15! Well, that's one way to claw back Scampton's losses...
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby captainfurious on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 12:17 am

I'm a sucker for the programme. I don't even read it but it's the only bit of merchandise I buy every year. And yes it is absolutely as you describe but I can't break the tradition! Still it is scandalous. Interesting flicking through my first 90s ones though. Better times in the aviation world from all perspectives.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Witchcraft24 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:38 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:£15 for a book of adverts. Anyone who buys one frankly deserves no sympathy at all. The programme's costs are heavily subsidised by the likes of BAE Systems and Lockheed-Martin, I'd be amazed if it cost RAFCTE much over a pound per copy, if that.

Let's be frank, the cost of a trip to RIAT, unless you are on a Mach 3 pass (or have blagged free access) is now spiralling to the realms of insanity, and all for diminishing returns in terms of the flying display.

£15! Well, that's one way to claw back Scampton's losses...



More hyperbolic nonsense - I reckon it still represents excellent value, especially for a family with a couple of young children. I know it gets quoted all the time but, if you want "insanity", look at West End shows or Premier league football matches.

"Diminishing returns".... were you there this year? The flying was diverse and excellent (IMHO).
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Berf on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 11:08 am

aviodromefriend wrote:
ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.



No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.
Berf

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 11:20 am

Berf wrote:No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.


RIAT 'publications' have always been appalling value - don't they charge something like £5 for a 1 side of A4 photocopied sheet with all the registrations of the aircraft attending. I appreciate that the money all goes in the charity pot but surely there has to be some measure of providing the public with value for money.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Berf on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 12:06 pm

I really have no issue with the cost of RIAT especially compared to other events and get a bit irritated when people moan about it but for the programme to cost virtually a third of the admission cost I find dreadful and milking those attending especially when there is nothing of substance in it. The RAF yearbook with a few additions would be better.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Dan213 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 8:54 pm

Berf wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.



No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.


Multiply that by 3 or 4 and you’re getting there. Still a very large profit margin but not quite as exaggerated as you make it out to be
Dan213

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Berf on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:21 pm

Dan213 wrote:
Berf wrote:
aviodromefriend wrote:
ColeTheDemolisher wrote:
Berf wrote:For an item that costs less than 50p to print that's appalling.


Soon it will be cheaper for us to book the acts ourselves... Back garden anyone :wall: :lol: :lmao:
I think Berf is referring to the inlay with the flying display that is coming with the program since a few years, not the complete book.



No I am not - the whole publication would cost less than 50p to print.


Multiply that by 3 or 4 and you’re getting there. Still a very large profit margin but not quite as exaggerated as you make it out to be



Well I assume you are in business and will know that it will depend on the number printed and pages which I do not know but assume it is over 10,000 copies at 72 pages. If it is costing them anything more than one pound and not the 1.50 or 2.00 you suggest then I suggest they look for another printer.
Berf

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:53 pm

By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:59 pm

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


I'm sure their response would be something along the lines of "All the profits got to the charity so what is the problem. And if it is so overpriced then why do we sell out each year?"

Not defending it - the price is clearly robbery with violence but I'm sure these things will have been discuss in their marketing meetings and agreed on by the 'higher ups'.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Wissam24 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:25 am

It is nonsense how much the programme costs given all the "sponsored by"s and "supported by"s all over and inside it. It's a big publication but a not insignificant percentage of it is just advertising.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 9:53 am

Wissam24 wrote:It is nonsense how much the programme costs given all the "sponsored by"s and "supported by"s all over and inside it. It's a big publication but a not insignificant percentage of it is just advertising.


£15 is robbery. £12 is an outrage. For what it is, and what is inside, anything over £5 is overcharging.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:26 am

I have a programme from every airshow I've been to, you can imagine how many pounds worth of tat that has amounted to over the years. The RIAT effort is actually far far from the worst, but I have to agree a £15 airshow programme is bonkers.

I'm happy to allow for a healthy profit margin for fundraising purposes, but a tenner is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and around £7.50 would be where I'd place it myself.

If it sells out though, why would they reduce it? The money's in the bank.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Skyflash on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:12 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:By way of comparison, clubs in the Bundesliga produce A4-sized programmes not unlike RIAT's in terms of number of pages. I think Bayern Munich's is under €2 this season, and the same sort of price at Dortmund and Schalke. They might get discounts for producing them for 17 home games a year as opposed to RIAT's annual order, but there is no way on Earth a £15 magazine can be justified, especially when the content is wafer-thin and heavily subsidised.

When UKAR next cosy up to Armstrong, perhaps the programme rip-off can be addressed.


Everything about the Bundesliga is so cheap that it makes meaningful comparisons tricky. Bayern Munich's cheapest season ticket, for example, starts at around €120 (!) which is just nuts when you consider how much the top EPL clubs charge.

I agree that £15 for the RIAT programme seems absurdly steep; one possible way around this would be to have a two-tier system whereby those who want to purchase the full souvenir thingy can do so (but not for more than a tenner IMO), whilst those who simply want the flying programme can purchase it on its own for (say) £2.50.

In years past the flying programme has been presented in the form of an insert to the main programme, so it shouldn't be too difficult to offer it on its own.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby harkins on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:20 am

Maybe RIAT will go the same way as Scampton? Next Christmas they might say that 2018 suffered financially due to not selling a single program and that they will not have an event in 2019 to think about it.

Seriously though, £15 for a program is incredible. I'd expect a hardback book for that.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 1:24 pm

Just had a look at the last RAF Yearbook I bought back in 2010.....it cost less than £5 ( £4:99 to be precise )
The 2010 RIAT programme ? £9 !!
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby aviodromefriend on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 4:38 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:And if it is so overpriced then why do we sell out each year?"
Most years they don't. It pops up in their webshop after the show almost every year to get rid of what isn't sold during the show.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby tankbuster81 on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 12:14 pm

Message deleted. I can't be doing with having a simple opinion, and others then over-reacting etc. The fun really has gone from here nowadays.

Happy Christmas all.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 5:38 pm

a case of being forced into an enclosure for a decent viewing position, or herded in at either end of the display line, with nothing but Tents, Marquee's, Enclosures, and wires in the way.


Amen ^^

The display line needs to be cleaned up but RIAT will never have the spine to do it as they are too 'hand in glove' with all the corporates/ LinkedIn crowd. I've already got my tickets for 2018 as its the 100th anniversary of the RAF. I trust DBH won't drop the ball on such a momentous occasion. 2019 and going forwards I shall review my attendance on a year by year basis dependant on the attendees.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby boff180 on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 6:46 pm

Woe betide any of you guys if you go to a major US airshow where (at the majority) you have to pay to be able to get within 100 yards of the crowd line and then it's either in a grandstand or umbrella covered tables.... except for the extreme left and right of the showground... with the view from behind blocked by the rows of grandstands.

.... that's if you've paid an entry ticket or not.

RIAT is split into three sections, Green - Blue - Red. 100% (33%) of Green is available for the public to get to the crowdline without paying, around 15% (4.95%) of the Blue is available and around 85% (28.05%) of Red was available.

So that's about 65% of the crowdline is available to the public without paying and the majority of the centre taken up by those willing to pay extra, disabled, and the chalets supporting the airpower conference and the main sponsors.

Without the latter two - the show would no longer exist, it's no wonder they get the best view and best treatment as a result.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 8:13 pm

Since 2007 I've never had any problem getting a decent spot to watch the flying and (if only I were any good) take some nice photos too. And that's by finding my spot at about 950 and often moving once or twice during the day too. So I absolutely do not buy into this argument about Joe Public being squeezed out. Not one bit.
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