RIAT 2018 discussion

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:49 am

Steve p wrote:Pretty sure both China and Vietman was invited last year and sent nowt so dont get too excited.
As long as India send over a couple of Jags and soon to be retired Mig 27s ill be more then happy :cool:


I'm sure the 27's made there last flights last month..
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby B_Tank88 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:42 am

Steve p wrote:Pretty sure both China and Vietman was invited last year and sent nowt so dont get too excited.
As long as India send over a couple of Jags and soon to be retired Mig 27s ill be more then happy :cool:


RAF Cosford have Jags dotted all over the place, do they not fly?
B_Tank88

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby cg_341 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:14 am

They do not, no.
cg_341

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby borismorris on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:19 pm

What would it take to get one of the Cosford airframes flying again?.

If not this year will it ever happen?
borismorris

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby vulcanshammer on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 2:22 pm

borismorris wrote:What would it take to get one of the Cosford airframes flying again?.


The 2nd coming.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 2:48 pm

vulcanshammer wrote:
borismorris wrote:What would it take to get one of the Cosford airframes flying again?.


The 2nd coming.


And I'm not sure even The Lord himself could get it past the CAA 'goalkeeper'.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby B_Tank88 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:33 pm

What's wrong with them?
B_Tank88

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby capercaillie on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:40 pm

B_Tank88 wrote:What's wrong with them?


They're all fakes, made of double sided sticky tape and non-recyclable coffee cups from Costa, made by trainee engineers in their spare time. :up:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:52 pm

capercaillie wrote:
B_Tank88 wrote:What's wrong with them?


They're all fakes, made of double sided sticky tape and non-recyclable coffee cups from Costa, made by trainee engineers in their spare time. :up:


Which is going to add at least another 25p to their running costs now.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby The Baron on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 4:11 pm

B_Tank88 wrote:What's wrong with them?


A quick Google search would tell you, however for simplicity: the RAF retired Jaguars from front line operations circa 2007. Since then they have been used by the technical school at RAF Cosford to assist in training new personnel, in particular for ground handling/marshalling. However they have now been retired fully (May last year?) and are not used at all.
Even if they were flyable (which they're not) the Cosford runway is too short to allow take off.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby vulcanshammer on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 5:42 pm

The Baron wrote:
B_Tank88 wrote:What's wrong with them?


A quick Google search would tell you, however for simplicity:...


A quick Google search told me that you come across rather unfriendly to someone asking an aviation question on an aviation forum.

Also for someone who suggests using Google (other search engines are available) you seem remarkably bad at doing so yourself.

Even if they were flyable (which they're not) the Cosford runway is too short to allow take off.


Cosford's runway is over twice the required length to allow a Jaguar to take off.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:21 pm

It would be a bit odd to have flown them all there when it wasn't possible to fly them all there wouldn't it...

In theory of course they could be made to fly again, given a large pot of cash and a very willing team (ignoring for a moment the obvious CAA hurdle) so there's nothing *wrong* with them per se, any more than there is with for example the Harrier at Yeovilton, but that's an awfully long way from there ever being a UK based one flying again.

Not that it matters of course, because the Indians will probably send a squadron over in the summer. ;-)
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Berf on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:24 pm

Berf

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby vulcanshammer on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:29 pm

Berf wrote:Who needs Cosford's runway? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FbJp6facTQ


Haha superb, never seen that, thanks for sharing :shock:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby The Baron on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 6:59 pm

vulcanshammer wrote:
The Baron wrote:
B_Tank88 wrote:What's wrong with them?


A quick Google search would tell you, however for simplicity:...


A quick Google search told me that you come across rather unfriendly to someone asking an aviation question on an aviation forum.

Also for someone who suggests using Google (other search engines are available) you seem remarkably bad at doing so yourself.

Even if they were flyable (which they're not) the Cosford runway is too short to allow take off.


Cosford's runway is over twice the required length to allow a Jaguar to take off.


I apologise for coming across as rude. It wasn't my intention as I then went on to try and answer the question, something no one else had attempted. I could simply have not bothered.
I do stand corrected on the runway length. I have memories of Jags taking ages to get airborne but I'm obviously wrong.
I wonder why the public are always told at the airshow that the runway is too short for jets? Thank you, anyway, for enlightening me.
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The Baron

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby speedbird2639 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:19 pm

I have memories of Jags taking ages to get airborne


When i saw them displayed I always got the impression they took a long time to 'spool up' from a slow pass to a fast(er) pass compared to other 'fast' jets. But given they have about 1/3 the power of say an F-16 then that is understandable.

I wonder why the public are always told at the airshow that the runway is too short for jets?


Presumably so when they are unable to attract any to the show they have a get out of jail free card to play. :hide: Maybe there is some ground handling/ servicing requirements that Cosford is unable to provide easily. I'm sure PeterR could advise the technicalities.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby cg_341 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:22 pm

The Baron wrote:I wonder why the public are always told at the airshow that the runway is too short for jets?

Because once you start taking minimum safe distances, obstacle clearance, and similar operational considerations in, it's too short for most high-performance jets to safely operate from.
cg_341

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Flare Path on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 10:18 pm

Berf wrote:Who needs Cosford's runway? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FbJp6facTQ


Great idea. They should close part of the M54!
Flare Path

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Steve p on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:11 am

B_Tank88 wrote:
Steve p wrote:Pretty sure both China and Vietman was invited last year and sent nowt so dont get too excited.
As long as India send over a couple of Jags and soon to be retired Mig 27s ill be more then happy :cool:


RAF Cosford have Jags dotted all over the place, do they not fly?


My son and i visited the museum at Cosford about 2 and a half years ago had a good time there made better by a jag that looked like it was getting ready for a flight, pilot in cockpit and ground crew milling around the aircraft, my son who was 9 at the time even asked me when was it going to take off. I had to explain to him that it was a training exercise and the jag will not leave the ground, he was disappionted as was i!, it did taxi around for quite a while during our visit but I'm afraid its wheels stayed firmly on the tarmac.


https://flic.kr/p/wUXQz5
Steve p

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 2:44 am

Berf wrote:Who needs Cosford's runway? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FbJp6facTQ


Just wheel them out onto the Albrighton By-Pass :lol: :lol:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 2:48 am

cg_341 wrote:
The Baron wrote:I wonder why the public are always told at the airshow that the runway is too short for jets?

Because once you start taking minimum safe distances, obstacle clearance, and similar operational considerations in, it's too short for most high-performance jets to safely operate from.


Add-in 60+ foot ravine and a railway embankment, not exactly perfect for jets.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby PeterR on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 12:25 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:
The Baron wrote:I wonder why the public are always told at the airshow that the runway is too short for jets?

Presumably so when they are unable to attract any to the show they have a get out of jail free card to play. :hide: Maybe there is some ground handling/ servicing requirements that Cosford is unable to provide easily. I'm sure PeterR could advise the technicalities.


Belgian Viper, Swiss Hornet & Italian Tornado have attended the RAF Cosford Air Show in the recent years, all safely operated from RAF Shawbury, so it's not our "jet out of jail free card" when we're "unable to attract any to the show". RAF Cosford's runway is exceptionally short compared to most modern military aerodromes. The issue for this discussion is the significant distance between what an aircraft physically could achieve, and what the rule book says is an allowable limit. For example, an empty Typhoon could easily blast off in the distance, and also land using a drag-chute. However, once safety parameters are built in (loss of engine, brake failure, drag-chute malfunction) the distance laid down in their operating manuals increases, and thus RAF Cosford's runway is too short. Why take the unnecessary risk? Regulated distances differ for many aircraft/operators, there are many instances where different Air Arms have different operational limits for the same aircraft type. I hope that answers your question.

The Baron wrote:However [the Jaguars] have now been retired fully (May last year?) and are not used at all.

Jaguar aircraft based at RAF Cosford are still used by Number 1 School of Technical Training and the Aerosystems Engineer and Management Training School, both based at RAF Cosford. However, the aircraft no longer perform live engine runs. This was ceased in August 2016. They are however still used on a daily basis for various instructional duties and can be seen out on the airfield regularly.

Anyway, this is the RIAT thread. Let's get back on topic shall we? :pinkwafer:
PeterR

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Airshowhammer on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 10:11 pm

2017 is going to take some beating!
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Pringles on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 10:15 pm

Airshowhammer wrote:2017 is going to take some beating!

Not if you went on Saturday it's not :whistle:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 10:13 pm

Pringles wrote:
Airshowhammer wrote:2017 is going to take some beating!

Not if you went on Saturday it's not :whistle:

too right :mad: :mad:
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