RIAT 2018 discussion

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby lambo17841 on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 5:50 pm

Thanks for info

John
lambo17841

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby edhunter on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 8:09 pm

jules48 wrote:There is no RAF Scampton Airshow this year.That was already known last year.Are you on a different planet. :mad:


I spoke to a vendor at RIAT who comes from Lincoln ( I know this as I'm a Lincolnshire lad and have spoken to him many a time at waddo air shows ) about the possibility of a airshow at Scampton in 2019 & he told me that Scampton air show is dead in the water.
edhunter

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby JJC on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 8:32 pm

Any news on the award winners?

I’ve heard the Reds and the BBMF took an award apiece home...
''Time to dive into the fireworks!''
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby play it cool on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 10:13 pm

lambo17841 wrote:Anybody know if the C2 is going to Farnborough?

John in Seaford

The crew member we spoke to said they were stopping in Canada and then Alaska before reaching Japan. Flight time alone was 22 hours, which put into perspective for me just how much effort it must be for air arms from the likes of Japan, Australia etc. That said, I bet the Japanese journey is more pleasant than travelling to Pakistan in a C-130.
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play it cool

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Airshowhammer on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 8:15 am

The Reds won an award? Oh dear. Didn’t even think they were in the same league as Frecce or the Swiss. Thought their drawing of the 100 was pretty off. Could barely see it and also the last 0 was about a mile to the east of the other one. They need some music or more liveliness from the commentary. :down:
Airshowhammer

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby rockfordstone on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 8:59 am

Airshowhammer wrote:The Reds won an award? Oh dear. Didn’t even think they were in the same league as Frecce or the Swiss. Thought their drawing of the 100 was pretty off. Could barely see it and also the last 0 was about a mile to the east of the other one. They need some music or more liveliness from the commentary. :down:


i thought the Frecce were better than the Red's this time around.
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rockfordstone

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby 197cup on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 9:10 am

Anyone know exactly what won what award?
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197cup

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby play it cool on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 9:29 am

197cup wrote:Anyone know exactly what won what award?


Patrulla Aguila – 'Most unnecessarily over-excited commentary'
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play it cool

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby rockfordstone on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 9:30 am

play it cool wrote:
197cup wrote:Anyone know exactly what won what award?


Patrulla Aguila – 'Most unnecessarily over-excited commentary'


Red 9 - 'Most over-excited pilot commentary'
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rockfordstone

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 9:38 am

Tweet posted on the RIAT website says the BBMF won the 'best overall display'
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby pete310183 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 9:43 am

rockfordstone wrote:
Airshowhammer wrote:The Reds won an award? Oh dear. Didn’t even think they were in the same league as Frecce or the Swiss. Thought their drawing of the 100 was pretty off. Could barely see it and also the last 0 was about a mile to the east of the other one. They need some music or more liveliness from the commentary. :down:


i thought the Frecce were better than the Red's this time around.


I am a big fan of the Reds but like many others have found this year’s routine somewhat lacking. When I saw them at Cosford i assumed they had, had a bad day at the office however having now seen them at RIAT too this year's routine is lacking in my opinion. To try and contextulise what i mean and make it useful, in previous years the reds have always had an exciting and dynamic routine, which at times left me not knowing where to look with the jets coming in from all different directions adding to the excitment. This year there appeared to be huge gaps in the routine with me looking for Jets and nothing happening in the skies above. The manoeuvres are also now a little out of date and maybe it’s time to invent some new ones as opposed to using all the same in a different order. Having said that it's easy to criticise from the sidelines and I recognise probably not as easy to reinvent a display as id like to think it is, but certainly time for something new.

The Freece were the standout display team for me this year surprisingly closely followed by the Swiss PC-7 team i thought they flew an exceptionally tight and dynamic display.

As for the others the solo Rafale was the standout display for me this year as it also was at Cosford, put the Typhoons firmly in their place. Again just my personal opinion but the Rafale appears to be far the superior plane over the typhoon.
pete310183

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:34 am

Brevet Cable wrote:Tweet posted on the RIAT website says the BBMF won the 'best overall display'


More than justified IMHO. One thing I would say about the BBMF is that they really need very little, or no, commentary. The aircraft and what they stand for speak for themselves. The Trenchard+ formation really was pretty special. In this year especially, I'm very glad that they won. :clap:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Gonzo230 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:46 am

pete310183 wrote:
rockfordstone wrote:
Airshowhammer wrote:The Reds won an award? Oh dear. Didn’t even think they were in the same league as Frecce or the Swiss. Thought their drawing of the 100 was pretty off. Could barely see it and also the last 0 was about a mile to the east of the other one. They need some music or more liveliness from the commentary. :down:


i thought the Frecce were better than the Red's this time around.


I am a big fan of the Reds but like many others have found this year’s routine somewhat lacking. When I saw them at Cosford i assumed they had, had a bad day at the office however having now seen them at RIAT too this year's routine is lacking in my opinion. To try and contextulise what i mean and make it useful, in previous years the reds have always had an exciting and dynamic routine, which at times left me not knowing where to look with the jets coming in from all different directions adding to the excitment. This year there appeared to be huge gaps in the routine with me looking for Jets and nothing happening in the skies above. The manoeuvres are also now a little out of date and maybe it’s time to invent some new ones as opposed to using all the same in a different order. Having said that it's easy to criticise from the sidelines and I recognise probably not as easy to reinvent a display as id like to think it is, but certainly time for something new.

The Freece were the standout display team for me this year surprisingly closely followed by the Swiss PC-7 team i thought they flew an exceptionally tight and dynamic display.

As for the others the solo Rafale was the standout display for me this year as it also was at Cosford, put the Typhoons firmly in their place. Again just my personal opinion but the Rafale appears to be far the superior plane over the typhoon.


Pete, can I just thank you for this post? It’s all too frequent here to find forum members using dismissive language, even using just one word, to criticise display acts, with little or no context, explanation, or even understanding that what they are expressing is their own opinion. Disturbingly, we have even seen some here targeting display pilots by name with insulting language.

It’s nice to see a piece of criticism that includes reasoning and understanding.
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Gonzo230

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby austinp on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:51 am

play it cool wrote:
197cup wrote:Anyone know exactly what won what award?


Patrulla Aguila – 'Most unnecessarily over-excited commentary'


Spectacular ;-)
austinp

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:52 am

Sometimes, relatively small things have a big impact. The Swiss F-18 arriving with the PC-7 team adds a little bonus before the F-18 pulls up. It's another photo Op and great PR in terms of "Team Swiss". It's a win win IMHO. Always impressed by the PC-7 team.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby mavvymoo on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 11:02 am

pete310183 wrote:
rockfordstone wrote:
Airshowhammer wrote:The Reds won an award? Oh dear. Didn’t even think they were in the same league as Frecce or the Swiss. Thought their drawing of the 100 was pretty off. Could barely see it and also the last 0 was about a mile to the east of the other one. They need some music or more liveliness from the commentary. :down:


i thought the Frecce were better than the Red's this time around.


I am a big fan of the Reds but like many others have found this year’s routine somewhat lacking. When I saw them at Cosford i assumed they had, had a bad day at the office however having now seen them at RIAT too this year's routine is lacking in my opinion. To try and contextulise what i mean and make it useful, in previous years the reds have always had an exciting and dynamic routine, which at times left me not knowing where to look with the jets coming in from all different directions adding to the excitment. This year there appeared to be huge gaps in the routine with me looking for Jets and nothing happening in the skies above. The manoeuvres are also now a little out of date and maybe it’s time to invent some new ones as opposed to using all the same in a different order. Having said that it's easy to criticise from the sidelines and I recognise probably not as easy to reinvent a display as id like to think it is, but certainly time for something new.

The Freece were the standout display team for me this year surprisingly closely followed by the Swiss PC-7 team i thought they flew an exceptionally tight and dynamic display.

As for the others the solo Rafale was the standout display for me this year as it also was at Cosford, put the Typhoons firmly in their place. Again just my personal opinion but the Rafale appears to be far the superior plane over the typhoon.

Just thinking about the display teams, Frecce were the best for me - how do they get their smoke plumes so thick and full?
Thinking about reinventing stuff - particularly in terms of the Reds - perhaps they should look to the further past for inspiration. A line of nine Hawks in line abreast doing twinkle rolls would be cool so perhaps there are other manoeuvres from the 60s and 70s that can be adapted?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby patrouille2001 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 11:07 am

Did anyone notice, Last cross over by the Frecce was missing. I know they still perform it in their routine ?. I hope it has not been banned in this country. Cheers
patrouille2001

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby st24 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 11:39 am

mavvymoo wrote:A line of nine Hawks in line abreast doing twinkle rolls would be cool so perhaps there are other manoeuvres from the 60s and 70s that can be adapted?

When did they do that? They certainly did twinkle rolls in big 7 vic, can't ever recall all 9 in line abreast rolling... :question:
They just need to bring back the 9 ship parasol/spaghetti break, always hated the split syncro/ 7 finish.
As for trophies I'm utterly amazed the RAF Typhoon missed out this year, then again BAe have ensured the Reds won the best UK display; but what was the competition - Typhoon, Tutor, BBMF, Chinook and GWDT....
BBMF won well deserved best overall. Solo Turk best solo jet? Mmmm. So much competition this year and his/their actual display was much better than their truncated rehearsals that were much shorter than the full show. Odd. On this subject this is the first year I can recall public displays given without a rehearsal - certainly GWDT, PC7 team and the F-35/heritage displays did not validate.
Best individual display to the Finnish Hornet, another tough call with so much quality on show.
Best overseas to Jordanian Falcons, fair enough but I'dve gone PC7 team.
FRIAT nutters as expected went for Coteau Delta though to be honest I thought you lot would've gone Flanker.
Best scheme to Canadian Hornet, well deserved though a close call to the RAF Tiger Puma, oh.. hang on no, they couldn't be arsed to send it again could they... :wall: :mad:
You caaan't trust the system... Maaan!
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby 197cup on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 11:39 am

Awards 2018

The Royal Canadian Air Force scooped two awards: that for best livery, presented to its CF-18 Hornet Demo Team, and the Chief Executive Trophy, awarded by RIAT chief executive Andy Armstrong for an outstanding contribution to the show.

The As The Crow Flies Trophy is awarded in memory of the late Air Marshal Sir Denis Crowley-Milling, former controller of the RAF Benevolent Fund and founder chairman of the Air Tattoo, to the best display as judged by the members of the Friends of the Royal International Air Tattoo. It went to Couteau Delta, the French Air Force tactical demonstration team of two Dassault Mirage 2000D strike aircraft

Great friends of the Air Tattoo, the Royal Jordanian Falcons, won the RAFCTE Trophy, awarded to the best flying demonstration by an overseas participant.

Capt Lauri Mäkinen from Fighter Squadron 31 of the Finnish Air Force won the Sir Douglas Bader Trophy for the best individual flying demonstration. His mount was another fast jet, the F/A-18C Hornet.

the Paul Bowen Trophy - which recalls the late Paul Bowen, co-founder of the Air Tattoo - for the best solo jet demonstration was presented to the Turkish Air Force's F-16C Fighting Falcon display, Solotürk.

Another of the RAF's display teams took the Steedman Display Sword for best flying demonstration by a UK participant. This was the Royal Air Force Aerobatic Team, the Red Arrows.

His Royal Highness Prince Feisal of Jordan presented the first of the awards, the King Hussein Memorial Sword for the best overall flying demonstration, in memory of the late His Majesty King Hussein, patron of the International Air Tattoo and Royal International Air Tattoo from 1983-99. Its recipient was the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, which on Saturday performed a unique 'Trenchard Plus' formation comprising the Douglas Dakota, Avro Lancaster, two Hawker Hurricanes and three Supermarine Spitfires.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 12:09 pm

patrouille2001 wrote:Did anyone notice, Last cross over by the Frecce was missing. I know they still perform it in their routine ?. I hope it has not been banned in this country. Cheers


They did it in their rehearsal, but it was missing from the public performances.

Can't argue too much with the trophy winners. Best Overseas to the RJF is a surprise though. They did show well in the perfect conditions but as st says, the PC-7 team were outstanding, Frecce Tricolori were great and the Finnish NH-90 was brilliant for a big helo display.

SoloTurk has deservedly wn an award, although I think a couple of years ago when it lost out to the F-22 it was even better than this year.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby mavvymoo on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:03 pm

st24 wrote:
mavvymoo wrote:A line of nine Hawks in line abreast doing twinkle rolls would be cool so perhaps there are other manoeuvres from the 60s and 70s that can be adapted?

When did they do that? They certainly did twinkle rolls in big 7 vic, can't ever recall all 9 in line abreast rolling... :question:
They just need to bring back the 9 ship parasol/spaghetti break, always hated the split syncro/ 7 finish.

I'm not sure, I just assumed it was nine in the twinkle rolls - I just remember an old (original?) Red Leader talking about a missing fuse making the rolls quicker and when the hierarchy heard about it an order went out insisting the fuses were replaced so they were - with broken ones. Classic stuff.

I concur the parasol was always a great end to the display.
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mavvymoo

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Pablo Zibi on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:05 pm

Hello guys,
anybody knows how it's possible that Su-27 didn't get ban after alpha pass on friday?
Pablo Zibi

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby G-CVIX on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:13 pm

Pablo Zibi wrote:Hello guys,
anybody knows how it's possible that Su-27 didn't get ban after alpha pass on friday?


If you noticed, the display on Saturday and Sunday was quite a lot higher, I imagine they had a word. I don't think in infringement necessarily means an instant and total ban.

On another note, who won the Best Paint Scheme and the Concours d'Elegance for best presented (do they still do this one)?
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G-CVIX

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby CJS on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:15 pm

The Bronco I believe.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby pete310183 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 3:21 pm

Gonzo230 wrote:
pete310183 wrote:
rockfordstone wrote:
Airshowhammer wrote:The Reds won an award? Oh dear. Didn’t even think they were in the same league as Frecce or the Swiss. Thought their drawing of the 100 was pretty off. Could barely see it and also the last 0 was about a mile to the east of the other one. They need some music or more liveliness from the commentary. :down:


i thought the Frecce were better than the Red's this time around.


I am a big fan of the Reds but like many others have found this year’s routine somewhat lacking. When I saw them at Cosford i assumed they had, had a bad day at the office however having now seen them at RIAT too this year's routine is lacking in my opinion. To try and contextulise what i mean and make it useful, in previous years the reds have always had an exciting and dynamic routine, which at times left me not knowing where to look with the jets coming in from all different directions adding to the excitment. This year there appeared to be huge gaps in the routine with me looking for Jets and nothing happening in the skies above. The manoeuvres are also now a little out of date and maybe it’s time to invent some new ones as opposed to using all the same in a different order. Having said that it's easy to criticise from the sidelines and I recognise probably not as easy to reinvent a display as id like to think it is, but certainly time for something new.

The Freece were the standout display team for me this year surprisingly closely followed by the Swiss PC-7 team i thought they flew an exceptionally tight and dynamic display.
As for the others the solo Rafale was the standout display for me this year as it also was at Cosford, put the Typhoons firmly in their place. Again just my personal opinion but the Rafale appears to be far the superior plane over the typhoon.


Pete, can I just thank you for this post? It’s all too frequent here to find forum members using dismissive language, even using just one word, to criticise display acts, with little or no context, explanation, or even understanding that what they are expressing is their own opinion. Disturbingly, we have even seen some here targeting display pilots by name with insulting language.

It’s nice to see a piece of criticism that includes reasoning and understanding.


Thank you for your comments, My hope was that my insight would give some constructive opinion which would allow all of us to benefit from any future display.
pete310183

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