RIAT 2018 discussion

Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby 197cup on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 6:34 pm

Was it the demo pilot flying the F-35 or the Heritage pilot? If indeed they do have two different display pilots.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Danny on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 6:56 pm

Usually the F-35 would only make three passes prior to the Heritage Flight (there isn't a full 'display' yet) - so it would appear that the additional passes on the Friday were just improvised because the Spitfire and Mustang weren't present.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Seahornet on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 8:17 pm

197cup wrote:Was it the demo pilot flying the F-35 or the Heritage pilot? If indeed they do have two different display pilots.


They usually do both in the same flight, so only one pilot for both routines. :smile:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby chrisward123 on Fri 20 Jul 2018, 8:30 pm

Danny wrote:Usually the F-35 would only make three passes prior to the Heritage Flight (there isn't a full 'display' yet) - so it would appear that the additional passes on the Friday were just improvised because the Spitfire and Mustang weren't present.


It was indeed improvised, I spoke to the F-35 guys Saturday morning who confirmed that
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby st24 on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 11:45 am

G67 wrote:For me the appeal was in the surprise of the F-35's display.

We all know what a Hornet or F-16 can do, after three decades of displays, but the 35 has been lambasted as a fat, slow turkey. And yet here in it's first year of appearance it has already ahiwn promise.

I'm going to do some Youtube research now into 1980s F-16 displays. I'll bet they were quite tame.

You don't need to research--I'll tell you! They were very competent displays straight from the off, including the 1975 debut tour. Norwegians flew the first in service displays in 1981 and instantly became a game changer, the Dutch from '83 and both featured the hallmark features of current displays. Same can be said for Mirage 2000, Rafale, F-15, F-18, even both Tornados-all went straight into full performance displays in their first seasons. Then we come to the modern plastic and software monstrosities and it's kit gloves for at least the first 5 years, certainly in public.
For instance the F-35 didn't roll, yes some steep wing overs and pitches but not all the way over. If a Tornado, Eagle or F-16 had been doing that several years after service entry then it would have been considered very weak.
I was perhaps more surprised that it flew a "make it up", unrehearsed public demo, something I thought was very much taboo these days...
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Danny on Sat 21 Jul 2018, 2:30 pm

Don't forget the demonstration flown by the Lockheed Martin test pilot at Le Bourget last year, I presume we can expect something similar from the USAF in years to come?

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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Tmyers123 on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 4:15 pm

Sorry about the random change of subject, but I was looking through some of my photos and I noticed the little radiation symbol just next to the “Су-27” mark on the flanker. Does anyone know what this is for? At first I thought it may have been a kill marking but it seems all of them have this on them. Safety warning because it’s where the radar is?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby HeyfordDave111 on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 4:18 pm

Its by the Radome, and warns crew that there is a potential risk as the radar gives out 'negative waves' that could be harmful.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Tmyers123 on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 4:22 pm

HeyfordDave111 wrote:Its by the Radome, and warns crew that there is a potential risk as the radar gives out 'negative waves' that could be harmful.


Thought it might be, thanks.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Pen Pusher on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 4:23 pm

Someone had to :biggrin:

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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby effects on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 4:45 pm

st24 wrote:
G67 wrote:For me the appeal was in the surprise of the F-35's display.

We all know what a Hornet or F-16 can do, after three decades of displays, but the 35 has been lambasted as a fat, slow turkey. And yet here in it's first year of appearance it has already ahiwn promise.

I'm going to do some Youtube research now into 1980s F-16 displays. I'll bet they were quite tame.

You don't need to research--I'll tell you! They were very competent displays straight from the off, including the 1975 debut tour. Norwegians flew the first in service displays in 1981 and instantly became a game changer, the Dutch from '83 and both featured the hallmark features of current displays. Same can be said for Mirage 2000, Rafale, F-15, F-18, even both Tornados-all went straight into full performance displays in their first seasons. Then we come to the modern plastic and software monstrosities and it's kit gloves for at least the first 5 years, certainly in public.
For instance the F-35 didn't roll, yes some steep wing overs and pitches but not all the way over. If a Tornado, Eagle or F-16 had been doing that several years after service entry then it would have been considered very weak.
I was perhaps more surprised that it flew a "make it up", unrehearsed public demo, something I thought was very much taboo these days...

History tells us the display pilots who go 'off piste' usually end up in a smoking hole in the ground. It is very unlikely this was the case, the yanks generally follow rules to the letter.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Mantog on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 7:27 pm

Pretty impressive! Interesting to see the amount of work the tailerons are doing


Danny wrote:Don't forget the demonstration flown by the Lockheed Martin test pilot at Le Bourget last year, I presume we can expect something similar from the USAF in years to come?

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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby st24 on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 7:28 pm

effects wrote:
st24 wrote:
G67 wrote:For me the appeal was in the surprise of the F-35's display.

We all know what a Hornet or F-16 can do, after three decades of displays, but the 35 has been lambasted as a fat, slow turkey. And yet here in it's first year of appearance it has already ahiwn promise.

I'm going to do some Youtube research now into 1980s F-16 displays. I'll bet they were quite tame.

You don't need to research--I'll tell you! They were very competent displays straight from the off, including the 1975 debut tour. Norwegians flew the first in service displays in 1981 and instantly became a game changer, the Dutch from '83 and both featured the hallmark features of current displays. Same can be said for Mirage 2000, Rafale, F-15, F-18, even both Tornados-all went straight into full performance displays in their first seasons. Then we come to the modern plastic and software monstrosities and it's kit gloves for at least the first 5 years, certainly in public.
For instance the F-35 didn't roll, yes some steep wing overs and pitches but not all the way over. If a Tornado, Eagle or F-16 had been doing that several years after service entry then it would have been considered very weak.
I was perhaps more surprised that it flew a "make it up", unrehearsed public demo, something I thought was very much taboo these days...

History tells us the display pilots who go 'off piste' usually end up in a smoking hole in the ground. It is very unlikely this was the case, the yanks generally follow rules to the letter.

Indeed but it didn't fly any form of rehearsal at Fairford which I always thought was mandatory. Same for the PC7 team unless they flew a very late one one evening.. :dunno:
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby WG655 on Sun 22 Jul 2018, 9:17 pm

Would guess the PC-7 Team may have been pre-validated off site at another event.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby mavvymoo on Tue 31 Jul 2018, 3:14 pm

HeyfordDave111 wrote:Its by the Radome, and warns crew that there is a potential risk as the radar gives out 'negative waves' that could be harmful.
I was working at the show where the Fulcrums collided and the wreckage was considered to be "hot" for some time (according to the safety brief we had) and bits of aeroplane were still littering the verges near the sheds on the far side a couple of days later when we were packing up.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby G67 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 7:00 am

Tmyers123 wrote:... and I noticed the little radiation symbol just next to the “Су-27” mark on the flanker. Does anyone know what this is for?


You'll note that the Flanker's warning marking is red and yellow, to distinguish it from black and yellow ionizing hazard.

The radar is basically a very powerful, directional microwave oven but every antenna has potentially dangerous side-lobes when active. Especially at 20kW like the Flanker's radar.

There is now an ISO symbol for non-ionizing radiation ( a radiating antenna in a triangle ) but the Flanker's painting plan probably predates that. Certainly I don't remember the triangular symbol at RAF radar sites in the 1980s, just big placards.

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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Go4Long on Sat 04 Aug 2018, 10:29 pm

st24 wrote:
G67 wrote:For me the appeal was in the surprise of the F-35's display.

We all know what a Hornet or F-16 can do, after three decades of displays, but the 35 has been lambasted as a fat, slow turkey. And yet here in it's first year of appearance it has already ahiwn promise.

I'm going to do some Youtube research now into 1980s F-16 displays. I'll bet they were quite tame.

You don't need to research--I'll tell you! They were very competent displays straight from the off, including the 1975 debut tour. Norwegians flew the first in service displays in 1981 and instantly became a game changer, the Dutch from '83 and both featured the hallmark features of current displays. Same can be said for Mirage 2000, Rafale, F-15, F-18, even both Tornados-all went straight into full performance displays in their first seasons. Then we come to the modern plastic and software monstrosities and it's kit gloves for at least the first 5 years, certainly in public.
For instance the F-35 didn't roll, yes some steep wing overs and pitches but not all the way over. If a Tornado, Eagle or F-16 had been doing that several years after service entry then it would have been considered very weak.
I was perhaps more surprised that it flew a "make it up", unrehearsed public demo, something I thought was very much taboo these days...


For the not rolling, and long repositioning pauses argument it really boils down to it not actually being a worked up/validated display I would think. They validated the heritage flight, and really just flew a series of fairly similar passes to what they might do on the end of the heritage flight with perhaps one or two different breaks. The one really nice one was the (admittedly high) pull over the top where he generated some very nice vapour. With the repositioning delays, usually there's other aircraft filling in that void, and even with the more polished demonstrations (such as the French Rafale which never fails to impress) the high speed passes take some time to reposition from...but we all want to see the F-35 go fast and yank on it...so I'll still take it.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby st24 on Sun 05 Aug 2018, 10:58 am

Go4Long wrote:
st24 wrote:
G67 wrote:For me the appeal was in the surprise of the F-35's display.

We all know what a Hornet or F-16 can do, after three decades of displays, but the 35 has been lambasted as a fat, slow turkey. And yet here in it's first year of appearance it has already ahiwn promise.

I'm going to do some Youtube research now into 1980s F-16 displays. I'll bet they were quite tame.

You don't need to research--I'll tell you! They were very competent displays straight from the off, including the 1975 debut tour. Norwegians flew the first in service displays in 1981 and instantly became a game changer, the Dutch from '83 and both featured the hallmark features of current displays. Same can be said for Mirage 2000, Rafale, F-15, F-18, even both Tornados-all went straight into full performance displays in their first seasons. Then we come to the modern plastic and software monstrosities and it's kit gloves for at least the first 5 years, certainly in public.
For instance the F-35 didn't roll, yes some steep wing overs and pitches but not all the way over. If a Tornado, Eagle or F-16 had been doing that several years after service entry then it would have been considered very weak.
I was perhaps more surprised that it flew a "make it up", unrehearsed public demo, something I thought was very much taboo these days...


For the not rolling, and long repositioning pauses argument it really boils down to it not actually being a worked up/validated display I would think. They validated the heritage flight, and really just flew a series of fairly similar passes to what they might do on the end of the heritage flight with perhaps one or two different breaks. The one really nice one was the (admittedly high) pull over the top where he generated some very nice vapour. With the repositioning delays, usually there's other aircraft filling in that void, and even with the more polished demonstrations (such as the French Rafale which never fails to impress) the high speed passes take some time to reposition from...but we all want to see the F-35 go fast and yank on it...so I'll still take it.

When did they validate the heritage flight?? :question: And you want to what on it??!
The Rafale literally takes seconds to reposition, absolutely no loss of flow whatsoever.
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby aviodromefriend on Wed 12 Sep 2018, 8:09 pm

PlanesTV asked to allow for 8 weeks to send out the DVDs. Anyone that has got theirs already?

Also, any chance of having an '18 version of this thing?
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Re: RIAT 2018 discussion

Postby Wrexham Mackem on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 11:46 am

aviodromefriend wrote:PlanesTV asked to allow for 8 weeks to send out the DVDs. Anyone that has got theirs already?
this thing?


Monday, 8th October is the release date stated on the PlanesTV website.
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