Sitting centre of the crowd line

Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby keety on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

Quick question, are the only seating options for sitting in the centre one of the paid for areas?

Looking at the map (saturday) I was wondering if there's any space between E (First clas lounge) and K (Patrons pavillion) for normal ticket holders?
keety

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Airshowguy1 on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 3:44 pm

The area between E and K is all closed off so there is no where to watch the show there, in fact most of the blue zone is off limits unless you have a FRIAT pass or have paid for a grandstand seat so people with ordinary tickets are limited to the crowd line by the Red and Green zones ( I think) Thats the way it has seemed since i've been going.

You'll see what i mean at this page of the RIAT discussion thread http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=73666&start=325

Liam
Last edited by Airshowguy1 on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/airshowguy1/

Nikon D5200
18-55 kit lens
Tamron SP 70-300 Di Vc Usd
User avatar
Airshowguy1

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby boff180 on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 3:48 pm

There is a very large area of blue zone available immediately to the west of FRIAT/Disabled Enclosue.

The map is descriptive over this areas size.

Andy
User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby vulcan558 on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 4:09 pm

The size of the tents on on front seem to take more crowd space each year, its why when you look at the amount of people in that area is mostly wasted, you look at the small crowd to the left on that picture to the amount of people you can see in the tented area,
One of the reasons RIAT only have a 60k crowd limit, when years ago without so much tented areas you would get over 100k plus in.
Reason is traffic of 100k they cannot manage and costs more to sort out, they have to rent more fields at more cost.
So they rent the center out for higher cost and can drop the crowd side and still make the same money or more for less.
vulcan558

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby keety on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 9:37 pm

boff180 wrote:There is a very large area of blue zone available immediately to the west of FRIAT/Disabled Enclosue.

The map is descriptive over this areas size.

Andy


Would that be between A (viewing village and garden) and C (disabled)??

Many thanks
keety

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Jakub.Zurek on Fri 14 Jul 2017, 9:41 pm

keety wrote:Would that be between A (viewing village and garden) and C (disabled)??

Many thanks


Yep that's it, I always go there :smile:
User avatar
Jakub.Zurek
UKAR Staff

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Tbolt on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 8:43 am

vulcan558 wrote:The size of the tents on on front seem to take more crowd space each year, its why when you look at the amount of people in that area is mostly wasted, you look at the small crowd to the left on that picture to the amount of people you can see in the tented area,
One of the reasons RIAT only have a 60k crowd limit, when years ago without so much tented areas you would get over 100k plus in.
Reason is traffic of 100k they cannot manage and costs more to sort out, they have to rent more fields at more cost.
So they rent the center out for higher cost and can drop the crowd side and still make the same money or more for less.


They probably only have a 60K crowd limit because that's all there is demand for now, as there is still tickets available for Sunday.
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 9:03 am

But could that drop in demand not be driven by the fact unless you pay a small fortune you can't get anywhere near the crowd centre to watch the displays? As a poster above said each year there are more chalets and less 'lawn'. RIAT organisors are quite obviously hell bent on making RIAT a premium product out of the reach of 'normals'.
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby cg_341 on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 9:15 am

speedbird2639 wrote:RIAT organisors are quite obviously hell bent on making RIAT a premium product out of the reach of 'normals'.

Are they?

I didn't realise that without a £200 FRIAT ticket, or a £70+ enclosure ticket, you cannot actually see any of the static, or watch the flying display! Looks like this year is going to be c**p in that case!

Oh, wait...
cg_341

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Tbolt on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 9:17 am

speedbird2639 wrote:But could that drop in demand not be driven by the fact unless you pay a small fortune you can't get anywhere near the crowd centre to watch the displays? As a poster above said each year there are more chalets and less 'lawn'. RIAT organisors are quite obviously hell bent on making RIAT a premium product out of the reach of 'normals'.


I don't think Airshows have the crowds they once had either due to their cost, but I'm not sure many people are put off by not being at crowd centre. But yes I agree they are trying to make it a premium product, it's feels like it's becoming the Monaco of Airshows, not that there's anything wrong with that as long as the still have a good bit of rooms for the rest of us.
User avatar
Tbolt

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 10:22 am

@Tbolt

To be honest mate each year it seems like they are incrementally moving it towards being a management away day for those in aviation (and associated industries) - a bit like a cheap knock off of Farnborough but without the pressure to sell planes and sign deals. Just an excuse to meet up with other blazer and chino wearing chinless wonders and spend all day ignoring the flying display whilst trying to get as much free champers and strawberries and cream down their necks.
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Ouragan on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 3:35 pm

While I understand that corporate sponsorship goes a long way towards keeping the price of general admission down, I do question the need to have such a large expanse of the crowdline sectioned off. At Farnborough this does not happen, and I have already mentioned on another thread that at Zeltweg use was made of two and three storey temporary corporate structures. These are widely used at big events in this country, including the Cheltenham Festival, and could be easily erected at Fairford towards the rear of the showground, thus opening up more of the crowdline and avoiding the cramming that takes place in some areas. If you're that high up, being further back doesn't make all the difference -particularly if you're spending the day enjoying free hospitality and getting pi$$ed.
User avatar
Ouragan

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby speedbird2639 on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 3:55 pm

Exactly Ouragan

From the crowdline to Northern edge of static hardstanding along the entire length of the runway should 'lawn' viewing. The double height chalets could go behind the static line - the increased distance would have no effect on these people as they are not taking photographs (they're not even looking towards the display for most of the day!). Move the FRIAT and other grand stands back to just in front of the static line so the lawn area in front of the grandstands can be utilised.

The provision for the corporate blazer prawnies could be called something like the 'Networking Village' (as that's all they are there to do, well that and increase their waist measurement) and placed well anywhere really as none of them care about being able to see the flying so they could be on one of the hardstanding areas over by the Blue entrance.

But nothing sensible like this will ever happen as the corporates have got DBH 'in their pocket'.
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Screechy on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:51 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:Exactly Ouragan

Move the FRIAT and other grand stands back to just in front of the static line so the lawn area in front of the grandstands can be utilised.


I think not! There would be pretty much zero take up of FRIAT if they pushed it back and they rake in a fair bit of FRIAT money, not far off half a million quid
User avatar
Screechy

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby mikek on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 1:09 pm

even the first row of a stand gives you an unimpeded view of the runway, but when you're on the grass you don't get much of a view unless you're lucky or at the front.

they deffo ought to consider moving tents back a bit to enlarge the crowdline. maybe add some small stands for those in the tents.
Handsomest UKAR member.
User avatar
mikek

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 1:35 pm

Screechy wrote:
speedbird2639 wrote:Exactly Ouragan

Move the FRIAT and other grand stands back to just in front of the static line so the lawn area in front of the grandstands can be utilised.


I think not! There would be pretty much zero take up of FRIAT if they pushed it back and they rake in a fair bit of FRIAT money, not far off half a million quid


A lot of that reported £1m will be offset by the cost of providing the facilities. Someone in the industry told me about 20 years ago that the cost of a temporary grandstand like RIAT or the British Gp was costed at £60 per seat - in the mid 90's! So its got to be a fair bit higher now. If you add up the cost of a ticket for P&V Weds and Thurs plus a ticket on the 3 show days plus Mon P&V its close to a Mach 3 package but those in FRIAT are incurring costs for the grandstand; left luggage; free programme etc which you don't have if you utilise the area for lawn viewing. Would the people being 50m further back with a lawn viewing area in front really be a deal breaker when they all have Saturn 5 sized lenses anyway? I suspect not. It was the first area to sell out this year.
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Screechy on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 2:05 pm

speedbird2639 wrote: Would the people being 50m further back with a lawn viewing area in front really be a deal breaker when they all have Saturn 5 sized lenses anyway? I suspect not. It was the first area to sell out this year.


I think you are wrong there, you should hear the cries and howls if anyone plonks themselves down infront of the FRIAT stand area. No way would they accept 50m of crowd in front of them. A lot of the FRIAT crowd don't have vast lenses ( a lot do as well of course ), certainly at least 50% have small handhelds, iPads or mini video cameras. They certainly wouldn't get my hard earned cash if they were to pull a stunt like that and I think most would go along with that too
User avatar
Screechy

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby harkins on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 2:32 pm

I think the FRIAT stand is the one stand/enclosure that is unquestionably justified.

The problem with the crowdline right from one end to the other is that it is only any good for a crowd one person deep. And even then if you've got a tall person stood next to you it can be difficult and not to mention the tannoy system. I do think that the corporate stands could be shuffled back a bit and that two tiered corperate venues would help.

Someone mentioned that they thought airshow crowds were shrinking, but while that may be true, the number of photographers/enthusiasts has shot up. Not only at RIAT, just look at the turnouts at Lakenheath and Fairford recently.

I'd wager Mach 3 will sell out inside a week for next year when the RAF will underwhelm us for their centenary. And there may well be an extra RAF enclosure wedged in for past and present Air Force personnel.
User avatar
harkins

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby planenuttoo on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 9:14 pm

You can certainly see which posters here are/were members of FRIAT; there are some perks that are historically provided, i.e. the stand, the forward "disabled" area, the setup of the speakers system which goes back to 1982. The provision of the facilities for those who do not want to leave the enclosure. All of these things are what FRIAT members pay for.
User avatar
planenuttoo

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby strangelookingalien on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 3:28 pm

I am a FRIAT member every year and very often will go to the far western end to watch on the Sunday. There is always space at the front. If I wanted a view nearer the centre I have - on days when walking around the static - found spots reasonable close to the front slightly west or east of the FRIAT stand.
strangelookingalien

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Ouragan on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:24 am

speedbird2639 wrote:Exactly Ouragan

From the crowdline to Northern edge of static hardstanding along the entire length of the runway should 'lawn' viewing. The double height chalets could go behind the static line - the increased distance would have no effect on these people as they are not taking photographs (they're not even looking towards the display for most of the day!). Move the FRIAT and other grand stands back to just in front of the static line so the lawn area in front of the grandstands can be utilised.

The provision for the corporate blazer prawnies could be called something like the 'Networking Village' (as that's all they are there to do, well that and increase their waist measurement) and placed well anywhere really as none of them care about being able to see the flying so they could be on one of the hardstanding areas over by the Blue entrance.

But nothing sensible like this will ever happen as the corporates have got DBH 'in their pocket'.


From RIAT's page on networking:

The Air Tattoo prides itself on creating a relaxed environment in which to spend time with key decision makers and colleagues, build contacts and develop business relationships. By providing a managed alternative to structured sales meetings, the Air Tattoo ensures that key individuals remain available throughout the event.

"RIAT 2016 provided an excellent opportunity to forge and enhance relationships with a significant number of our domestic and international customers in a relaxed atmosphere against the backdrop of what has to be one of the best air displays in the world."

Sir Roger Carr, Chairman of BAE Systems Plc.

As an Air Tattoo sponsor or private hospitality client, you will gain access to one, or all, of the VIP networking events.

The Patron's Pavilion
The Pavilion hosts our most senior guests including Royalty, Ministers, Defence Leaders and Captains of Industry. Converse over morning coffee, hold an informal meeting in the garden or build a relationship over lunch. The networking opportunities are endless.

Private Hospitality Chalets
Located alongside the Patron's Pavilion, our Private Hospitality Chalets are perfectly located for networking. The Air Tattoo actively encourages inter-chalet networking, striving to create a whole complex that is buzzing with industry activity. To support this informal drop-in approach, our management team work with chalet companies to facilitate visits from Senior Air Tattoo guests.


Considering the flying display to be a 'backdrop' says it all, really. Perhaps we ought to consider moving them to Totterdown... :heyhey:
User avatar
Ouragan

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby capercaillie on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 9:30 am

speedbird2639 wrote:Exactly Ouragan

From the crowdline to Northern edge of static hardstanding along the entire length of the runway should 'lawn' viewing. The double height chalets could go behind the static line - the increased distance would have no effect on these people as they are not taking photographs (they're not even looking towards the display for most of the day!). Move the FRIAT and other grand stands back to just in front of the static line so the lawn area in front of the grandstands can be utilised.

The provision for the corporate blazer prawnies could be called something like the 'Networking Village' (as that's all they are there to do, well that and increase their waist measurement) and placed well anywhere really as none of them care about being able to see the flying so they could be on one of the hardstanding areas over by the Blue entrance.

But nothing sensible like this will ever happen as the corporates have got DBH 'in their pocket'.


Will you just give it up with your whining about the FRIAT stand. The area in front of the FRIAT stand is utilised by FRIAT. As others have said its why FRIAT sells at the price it does, you don't pay a premium price to then sit behind hundreds of others who haven't. :roll:
"The surrogate voice of st24"
User avatar
capercaillie

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby bobtomlin on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 11:38 am

As has already been mentioned, the Blue Zone (display centre) doesn't allow someone with just an airshow admission ticket to access the front. That area is taken up by FRIAT and public grandstands and speciality chalets/lawns, etc, where you pay extra or are a VIP/corporate guest. It looks like about a third of the crowdline.

It was mentioned in another thread that photographers/enthusiasts are possibly better behaved in the FRIAT stand than elsewhere?
This sounds about right, as you should feel more relaxed about having access to good views and/or photo opportunities if taking unobstructed shots is the important thing and you've got unobstructed views. :wink:

In aerial views of the show, you can see the crowd densities near the front in the public areas immediately to either side of the specialist enclosures, with people trying to get near to the main display centre action.
It would probably also stand to reason that those areas will be subject to the most competition for space and that the attitudes will therefore be less relaxed/friendly/tolerant.

Having more crowd line available to non-extra paying guests/customers might ease the tensions a little as long as the display is spread out along it too.

I've tended not to bother about being near the front where you have to battle and position further back, waiting for the aircraft to pop up over peoples heads.
Usually there's still a fair amount of sky about to get shots in :wink: .
Sometimes (and purists will disagree with me on this I'm sure) I think a few strategically placed heads (not blocking out aircraft) can enhance a shot, giving it an airshow setting feeling?
No? Thought not.
bobtomlin

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby Gonzo230 on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 1:30 pm

If you're not too bothered about seeing the runway, there is always plenty of space in the area behind the FRIAT grandstand and in front of the Crew chalet and Breitling enclosure. It must be the area of one football pitch, if not two, and over the weekend I never saw more than a handful of people in there.
Gonzo230

Re: Sitting centre of the crowd line

Postby speedbird2639 on Fri 21 Jul 2017, 4:07 pm

there is always plenty of space in the area behind the FRIAT grandstand and in front of the Crew chalet and Breitling enclosure. It must be the area of one football pitch, if not two, and over the weekend I never saw more than a handful of people in there.


And that is part of my point. By having the 'pay extra' facilities right on the rope you finish up with huge areas of 'dead' space which isn't used as it has an obstructed view. By moving the chalets etc back at least as far as the Northern edge of the static line you remove this dead areas, increasing the amount of space available for Joe Public thereby reducing the density people in the lawn areas.

The fact that RIAT has a big piece on their website trumpting how the event can be used for 'networking' really does highlight how they have completely lost sight of their original purpose and they are now effectively running it for the benefit of themselves and their clique of friends from the Worlds air forces. How much longer before they just drop the charade and make it a 'trade show' open to Chiefs of Staff and their minions and the great unwashed can just watch the stream on Planes tv.
User avatar
speedbird2639

Next

Return to Royal International Air Tattoo

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests