Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:00 am

Dan213 wrote:You can hardly compare it to an A5 non-league football programme that has all of 20 pages. If anything, a more accurate comparison would be that of a programme to a West End show or similar. £12 is expensive, but it's hardly the rip off that you make it out to be


Show me another airshow this season who are charging £12 for their glossy brochure of advertisements and advertorials?
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby LN Strike Eagle on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:04 am

£12 for page after page of adverts is quite a lot, especially when you consider that £18 buys you a ticket to a Shuttleworth evening airshow...
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Dan213 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:21 am

LN Strike Eagle wrote:£12 for page after page of adverts is quite a lot, especially when you consider that £18 buys you a ticket to a Shuttleworth evening airshow...


It is, but I struggle to find any of the same kind of quality that RIAT's is. Many are just A5 gloss paper booklets with a flying display schedule and not much else
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby andrewn on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 5:29 am

Totterdown offers a different perspective on the show and is good value for money. This year I did FRIAT (for the first time in over 30yrs of attending) and whilst that helps with the riff raff and general overcrowding, that we are all complaining about on the other thread, I still want to retain the option to sit outside my tent and have an Su-27 come a little closer than you get from the inside :)
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby boff180 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 9:25 am

Also if Paul Severn who has posted on that Facebook group reads this.

When quoting me get it right please.

I said "It did appear" and "If that was indeed the case..."

I did not use the absolute statement you've claimed I did. Can't be bothered to join that group to pick you up on it directly :claypole:
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Vodka on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 9:26 am

and that doesnt happen here or just about every other forum ???

Oh. . the previous post has disspareared in that my words referred too. . . Guess I should have placed a linked quote. :shock:
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby aceyone on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 9:51 am

LN Strike Eagle wrote:£12 for page after page of adverts is quite a lot, especially when you consider that £18 buys you a ticket to a Shuttleworth evening airshow...


Obviously not in the same league but a Sat/Sun combined ticket for Headcorn was the same price as a RIAT programme,had the RIAT one been priced at say, £6 I and many others would probably have bought one but £12 ? no way Pedro !
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Canon on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 9:57 am

aceyone wrote:
LN Strike Eagle wrote:£12 for page after page of adverts is quite a lot, especially when you consider that £18 buys you a ticket to a Shuttleworth evening airshow...


Obviously not in the same league but a Sat/Sun combined ticket for Headcorn was the same price as a RIAT programme,had the RIAT one been priced at say, £6 I and many others would probably have bought one but £12 ? no way Pedro !


Snetterton sells their programmes for £5, we always buy one whenever we go
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby DonaldGrump on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 10:17 am

boff180 wrote:Also if Paul Severn who has posted on that Facebook group reads this.

When quoting me get it right please.

I said "It did appear" and "If that was indeed the case..."

I did not use the absolute statement you've claimed I did. Can't be bothered to join that group to pick you up on it directly :claypole:



Whilst I agree with your comments regarding facebook (spawn of Satan), having read their responses to what after all has been a fairly un warranted attack on people who choose to stay there, I dont see any worse responses than appear on this forum on an almost daily basis.

What do you expect them to say "oh the great gods of UKAR have spoken and we must bow to their superior knowledge and wisdom"?

If people want to dish it out then dont get all huffy when having to take some incoming.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby vulcan558 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 10:21 am

LN Strike Eagle wrote:£12 for page after page of adverts is quite a lot, especially when you consider that £18 buys you a ticket to a Shuttleworth evening airshow...

Yes pages of adverts, you can go into WH smiths and have a fantastic selection of things, like Airforce monthly
Or Flypast for under a fiver. So how you can justifly £12

The advertising must cover the cost of producing the program, at a guess it makes a profit aswell.
Then to charge 12 quid just takes the piss, greedy busterds. To see that young lads disappointed face.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Ouragan on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:32 pm

The programme is little more than a collection of advertorials for the sponsors and an assortment of average photos of what was expected to attend when it went to press, with a section in the middle with info that you can -mostly- find on the website or on the free handout they give out. Long gone are the RAF Yearbook-rivalling magazines with proper, researched articles that were meant to be read and not skipped through, and were actually worth the cost. Even the programme at Wimbledon was cheaper this year -and I'll bet there was more substance in it.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby ukaskew on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:43 pm

Compare the prices of stuff inside the fence with something like the Festival of Speed and it's positively cheap. We had huge breakfast baps for £5.50 that I'm fairly sure I bought from the exact same retailer at Goodwood for £8 a few weeks prior . I think the FoS programme was at least £12. The fixed food/drink pricing seemed to benefit the customer across the board.

My Dad and Brother-in-Law are keen drinkers and they were very impressed with the prices which they said were essentially decent pub prices.

I even bought merch (plane models) from the official RAF stall that were cheaper than the Hornby outlet shop in Swindon.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby stevebrodie on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 12:48 pm

So shutdown Totterdown, are you then going to be shutting down 'Flyby' and 'Townsend Farm' campsites, who openly quote the fact that the jets fly right over your head on the way into the ground, and as seeing as Shoreham disaster happened in direct line with the runway, would these sites not be in more danger than Totterdown, if a jet calls an emergency and needs to get down quick ?, dunno. Then are you going to get everyone out of Kempsford when the Reds start their display, as they fly overhead. As for been able to see pilots looking out the cockpit to make sure they are not over Totterdown, explain how they are doing this when they over the top of Totterdown, do you not think their maybe checking their lines/positioning for their next run onto the crowd line ? Everyone goes on about how low they fly, its not like you can reach out and touch them, they still have some height on them. I camp Friday and Saturday, go to Friday and Saturday and watch the show from the campsite on a Sunday, need to take the 'house' down at some point. If totters or any other campsite wasn't their, doubt i would bother i am getting to old to get up at 4am in a morning to travel from Shropshire to Fairford, to make sure i don't end up watching the show from the stationary traffic queue, and then drive back in one day. Roll on Totter's 2018.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby profile_M on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 1:08 pm

To add my 2p's worth…

This year was my third camping at Totterdown and in each of those years I have both attended the show and spent money in the village thus contributing to the local economy and the show. I would not say I am a freeloader in anyway as on the days I wasn't in park and view or in the show I simply wouldn't have been there anyway. However, I would say I do not condone those who do not attend in anyway and just watch from the hill.
In terms of whether Totterdown is bad for RIAT I would say it is not.
If it were an issue it would have had a greater effect by now, Shoreham was 2 years ago and the CAA/MAA have made changes already yet Totterdown continues and no shows have been halted as a result? Don't get me wrong, I understand there is a danger in being there but this is something we all accept. Personally, if it were to adversely affect the show then I would stop going there and camp somewhere else as, at the end of the day, I am there for the show not the campsite. Until then I will continue to camp there. The comments regarding pilots avoiding it, well, I really cannot see where this comes from. From being in the show and up on the hill I could tell no difference from previous years and no one around me mentioned noticing a difference either. We were directly overflown by the Reds, Thunderbirds, Italian Tornado, M346, Flanker, F-18, Typhoon, BBMF…the list goes on.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby spotterwilliam on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 1:57 pm

Can anyone tell me how to measure the difference in risk of the jet going down into totterdown, rhymes, the crowd line, or into the surrounding village's?

What is the difference of a straight pass over a field with people, or turning towards the crowdline with 9G turn?

A plane will never fall straight down from the air, and will always go down somewhere 'unexpected'

Shoreham was a disaster (straight into the A27), Leeuwarden was lucky(?) (with a F-5 falling into a small pond, miles away from the airfield)
spotterwilliam

Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby steveb23 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 2:08 pm

spotterwilliam wrote:Can anyone tell me how to measure the difference in risk of the jet going down into totterdown, rhymes, the crowd line, or into the surrounding village's?

What is the difference of a straight pass over a field with people, or turning towards the crowdline with 9G turn?

A plane will never fall straight down from the air, and will always go down somewhere 'unexpected'

Shoreham was a disaster (straight into the A27), Leeuwarden was lucky(?) (with a F-5 falling into a small pond, miles away from the airfield)


I can't say I know.. However, I would think its about managing the risk. Risk is defined as probability x consequence, so I assume over the crowd line the probability would be low, consequence high (lots of people in a small area), but over somewhere like Totterdown I would imagine probability relatively higher and consequence high too. The reasons why the probability over the crowd line would be low is the CAA / MAA have reduced the probability of incident there by mandating minimum display line distances and ensuring no overflights of the crowd.

This all said, anything can happen on a given day.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby AMK on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 2:46 pm

I am sick of hearing nonsense from the fun Police
Several hundred people a year get great enjoyment from camping at Tottering and using the park and view facility. RIAT sold out on Saturday and almost on Sunday. Many of the residents of Tottering attended the airshow.
What is more many of the campers and parkers provide a huge boost to the economy.
We stayed in a guest house for three nights. If we had only being going to the airshow then we would only have stayed one night
Three nights meant more spent on accommodation, food and drink for three nights instead of just one.
For God's sake stop being killjoys those against Totterdown.
This was our first visit, and hopefully not the last, provided the the fun Police don't get their way

.
AMK

Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby carlbotten1971 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 4:44 pm

Although I stay on Townsend farm and not Totterdown NO i do not think Totterdown or any other campsite is bad for R.I.A.T but beneficial esp like me who stays from Tues - Mon and enjoys the variety Arrivals on Wed/Thurs from campsite into the showground Fri and Sat and watch the show from the campsite on Sun then leave on Monday (after a visit to P&V west) if they start closing campsites down like Totterdown it would be very detrimental for R.I.A.T :wall: :wall:
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby DanH on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 6:40 pm

I've stayed at Totterdown every year since 2008 and from what I can tell the aircraft aren't flying over the campsite any less now than they were when I first started going. If at times it seems that they are positioning for manoeuvres further away from the main crowd than they do at other venues then I would hazard a guess that it is more to do with adjustments made to account for the long length of the display line, rather than being a deliberate attempt to avoid the area.

I have had some great times sat up there on that hill over the years - I've had some amazing experiences and made lots of brilliant friends. 2018 will be my 11th year in a row up on the hill and long may it continue.

P.S. I'm sorry if my massive tent gets in any of your pictures. :biggrin:
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Canon on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 6:46 pm

DanH wrote:
P.S. I'm sorry if my massive tent gets in any of your pictures. :biggrin:


Tents aren't the problem. Its the stupid pointless flags which are the problem :mad: So just so long as you don't have one of them, then all is good
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby DanH on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 8:03 pm

Canon wrote:
DanH wrote:
P.S. I'm sorry if my massive tent gets in any of your pictures. :biggrin:


Tents aren't the problem. Its the stupid pointless flags which are the problem :mad: So just so long as you don't have one of them, then all is good


Ah, well this is awkward... :whistle: :lol:
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Father Ted on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 8:06 pm

Boff180/Andrew ,just catching up with the pros/cons on this thread.

I've met you at the approach end of a runway before, as with a fair few others here.
You knew of a potential risk and pilots knew you were there during a critical phase of flight.
Are you not part of the same 'problem' you are pointing out?

Everyone in the vicinity of Fairford Village, all the campsites, RIAT itself and Marston Meysey et al are at risk should something go horribly wrong.

Yet, we all still attend.

One question to you.

Did Totterdown campsite really RUIN your RIAT 2017 experience?

If so, why?


Cheers,
Paul Severn
Totterdowner and RIAT enthusiast/supporter.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby boff180 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 8:41 pm

Father Ted wrote:Boff180/Andrew ,just catching up with the pros/cons on this thread.

I've met you at the approach end of a runway before, as with a fair few others here.
You knew of a potential risk and pilots knew you were there during a critical phase of flight.
Are you not part of the same 'problem' you are pointing out?

Everyone in the vicinity of Fairford Village, all the campsites, RIAT itself and Marston Meysey et al are at risk should something go horribly wrong.

Yet, we all still attend.

One question to you.

Did Totterdown campsite really RUIN your RIAT 2017 experience?

If so, why?


Cheers,
Paul Severn
Totterdowner and RIAT enthusiast/supporter.


Sitting at the approach (not under it) on a normal day of operations is a completely different kettle of fish to being under an air display as you full well know, it's also got nothing to do with distracting the pilot - it's about risk mitigation which (sadly) is what the new regulations are all about. In the past, when I was younger and naïve I did use "naughty fields" at Waddington, do I use naughty fields anywhere now? No I don't - my opinion and understanding about them has changed.

As I previously posted, if/when pilots begin to actively avoid the area (as the regs say they should now) and are pushed further away as a result (which from accounts from the site after my original post, this was not the case this year) then yes at that point the site should close. Regardless of how popular a location might be, if it begins to negatively effect the display for those that are viewing from the event itself then it becomes a problem.

Did Totterdown ruin my event this year? No it didn't. Did I ever insinuate it had? No I didn't.

The one location that I will say - without question - always affected my RIAT experience was Rhymes. I don't pay £200+ for a ticket for a large number of my runway shots to have hundreds of people on ladders in them at the fence. Tottedown itself is barely noticeable in photos.

If the site isn't negatively affecting the display or the distance of the display for people actually at the event then there is no issue (unless you follow the regs to the letter). It's if the opposite becomes the case that there is.
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Re: Is Totterdown bad for RIAT

Postby Canon on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 8:46 pm

DanH wrote:
Canon wrote:
DanH wrote:
P.S. I'm sorry if my massive tent gets in any of your pictures. :biggrin:


Tents aren't the problem. Its the stupid pointless flags which are the problem :mad: So just so long as you don't have one of them, then all is good


Ah, well this is awkward... :whistle: :lol:


Do us all a favour next year, put your flag down during the flying display? Or at least limit it to tent height. They are unnecessary. I don't have a problem with them before or after the flying display, but during the display please have some respect for the other people who's views and photographs you are ruining.
You wouldn't like it if I stood in front of you and waved a massive flag in front of your camera, so don't do it to others.
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