RIAT Security

RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:21 am

Considering the dreadful events over the last year, I was hoping/expecting security to be better this year but (on Friday) I witnessed exactly the same as previous years, it seem to be that they are happy with the illusion/impression of security rather than security. Chunks of queues waived through, large bags not checked (two in our group), personal metal detectors totally useles etc etc,

As we saw with the Manchester attack, any venue that experiences an incedent comes under harsh focus/scrutiny and we get into the "lessons will be learned", "re-double our efforts" mode regarding better security. Obvioulsly I hope there is never an incident at RIAT. But isn't it better to discuss this issue before any possible incident than be wise after the event. I know it has been discussed before, but, given the present climate, this really is something that deserves serious discussion IMHO.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:34 am

When I came in on Sunday through Red one of the security people was announcing in his best outside vice that they were only searching every 10th person. Bizarrely they didn't even wave the useless magic wand round me. Then the bloke mumbled something so I asked him to repeat it as I hadn't heard what he said and he said I had to put my stuff through the scanner. At that point I could've just walked out onto the show ground as there was no liaison between the person selecting for scanning and the person doing the scanning and the bloke doing the selecting wasn't monitoring to check you actually went to the scanner.

So I put all my stuff on the conveyor. When the last tray of my stuff popped out the woman operating the machine said "Oh is this one yours as well? I wasn't watching I was doing something else!" so my lunch had to go through again so she could be bothered to watch the screen this time. But it only took a couple of minutes and at least they were only checking every 10th person from the start rather than checking everyone until the queue was backed up to Cirencester and getting restless like they normally do.

So all in all a farce of slapstick proportions but it didn't delay me and it enabled everyone to tick their box as having robust security.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby play it cool on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:44 am

I've been to a number of events recently (Glastonbury being one) before which we were told that in the light of recent events to expect increased security checks and longer delays. None of these had noticeably increased security checks in reality.

That said, terrorist attacks tend (but not always) to happen in public places (i.e. the Manchester attack was in the foyer of the arena, not inside), and if anyone wanted to target RIAT then a longer than usual queue because of increased security would make an ideal target.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:49 am

Well, the solution to both is invest more in security, queues are only there due to not enough staff/lanes etc plus there does seem to be alot of faffing. If there was an incident inside, I dont think "we only checked 1 on 10 to keep queues down" would be seen as a suitable reply.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby DerekF on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:51 am

There is nothing stopping anyone joining the queue and loitering in the carpark without any security whatsoever. Although there was an armed guard on the gate to green car park on Saturday morning. It took ages to get in on Saturday morning and when I did get to the end of the queue I was waved through. I suspect some "profiling" was going on.

At the Radiohead gig at the Emirates Old Trafford the other week, there were long queues and strict searches - I had a mobile phone power pack confiscated " we aren't allowing these in" OK, fair enough but you need to tell people beforehand. At concerts you can travel light but I can only imagine the security headache of being confronted with thousands of people, many with huge rucksacks and trailers of stuff.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:56 am

I suspect, though they'd never admit it, that a lot of profiling was going on. The typical fat, pasty, white 40-something spotter with lank hair, a Def Leppard T-shirt stretched across his gut and a flask of weak lemon from his mum isn't going to attract the attention of security. They'll have been looking for people who didn't look like the average airshow punter.

Security will also be why the Israeli C-130 wasn't announced. Had word got out that an Israeli military machine was on the ground, any remaining tickets might have been bought up by some very unsavoury characters.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:02 am

As people have pointed out before if you were the type of individual who wanted to target RIAT then the queue for entry is realistically the only place to do it as that is the only place there is a worthwhile congregation of people. 60k people spread along 10k feet of crowdline isn't a high density but thousands waiting patiently in a queue to get in is. So ironically the very checks that were put in place to increase security are potentially increasing opportunity for any terrorist who may be lurking about.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby AlexC on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:02 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:The typical fat, pasty, white 40-something spotter with lank hair, a Def Leppard T-shirt stretched across his gut and a flask of weak lemon from his mum isn't going to attract the attention of security.


:lol: Thankfully that does not describe me! :sweat:
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby Canon on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:06 am

Second in queue on the Sunday at red entrance, bag didn't get searched as they were busy looking through the bag of the person in front of me. Not that I'm complaining as if they had made me wait and searched my bag I probably wouldn't have got a front row spot.
If anything was going to happen at RIAT, it would happen in the queues. Someone isn't going to risk having to go through security, it would be much easier for them just too push into the middle of the crowded queues and do something then, using people between them and the armed guards as meat-shields.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:10 am

speedbird2639 wrote:As people have pointed out before if you were the type of individual who wanted to target RIAT then the queue for entry is realistically the only place to do it as that is the only place there is a worthwhile congregation of people. 60k people spread along 10k feet of crowdline isn't a high density but thousands waiting patiently in a queue to get in is. So ironically the very checks that were put in place to increase security are potentially increasing opportunity for any terrorist who may be lurking about.


Its not just people, its the symbology of the "bad guys" and their evil hardware. 200 in the queue to get in or 30 underneath the B-52 (includng serving USAF staff)? These are horrible conversations but they need to be had.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby play it cool on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:12 am

DerekF wrote:At the Radiohead gig at the Emirates Old Trafford the other week, there were long queues and strict searches - I had a mobile phone power pack confiscated " we aren't allowing these in" OK, fair enough but you need to tell people beforehand. At concerts you can travel light but I can only imagine the security headache of being confronted with thousands of people, many with huge rucksacks and trailers of stuff.


Actually this was the one event I went to recently where security was tight, but very much expected really given the circumstances of why the venue was switched in the first place.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby G-CVIX on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:15 am

They did 100% bag search at Yeovilton and it was still quicker than getting into P+V East on Wednesday but from what I can tell, the only way to do it 100% would be to employ a lot of people or have everyone go through bag scanners airport style.

As has been said, you'd have to be stupid to try and get on base with anything, it's much more likely that the queue would be the target and how could that be protected really?

I don't actually think it needs to change at RIAT, perhaps the armed personal/police that were patrolling inside could come and patrol the queue to deter or spot any attack as it happens.

How long before we see more hippies come to protest against arms deals and the A-10 at a show anyway?
Last edited by G-CVIX on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:16 am

As Canon says if they do decide to target RIAT it will be in the queues. All of the attacks in the UK have been in 100% fully open access areas (on tube trains; on buses; in the foyer/atrium outside an arena; in the street). They are not going to risk getting stopped and searched and the operation being thwarted when they could do it in the queue. It would still be reported on the news at a USAF/ RAF base had been targeted and the casualty count would be higher.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:17 am

"Someone isn't going to risk having to go through security"

If you are happy blowing yourself up in the queue, you have nothing to risk by trying to get through security.

PS 100% bag search in my expereince at O2 concerts. (Therefore, no profiling). Someone within RIAT has made a hard decision not to go for 100% bag searches which I understand but it has to be regarded as a calculated risk.
Last edited by pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby Canon on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:21 am

pbeardmore wrote:"Someone isn't going to risk having to go through security"

If you are happy blowing yourself up in the queue, you have nothing to risk by trying to get through security.


I was thinking more in terms of knife attacks or shootings, which could be stopped via the bag searches and metal detectors used by security.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby G-CVIX on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 11:23 am

pbeardmore wrote:"Someone isn't going to risk having to go through security"

If you are happy blowing yourself up in the queue, you have nothing to risk by trying to get through security.


Queue makes a lot more sense though for obvious reasons.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby Grunt087 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:12 pm

Sunday the guy's metal detector wand never beeped when it went over my metal belt buckle. I don't think they even had them turned on . It was more of a going through the motions exercise.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:20 pm

Grunt087 wrote:Sunday the guy's metal detector wand never beeped when it went over my metal belt buckle. I don't think they even had them turned on . It was more of a going through the motions exercise.


They never do - I can't remember when security searches came in at RIAT (presumably after 9/11) but they have never detected belt buckles; car keys; little bags of 'shrapnel' loose change; large watches with metal bracelets; dog tags etc. I can only assume the operatives set the sensitivity to minimum so they have less to investigate.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby JJC on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:23 pm

Didn't get the once over with the wand either day, had my bags checked on Saturday morning - on Sunday morning I walked straight through without either. Nobody even scanned my ticket for entry on Saturday!
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby Luke28 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:27 pm

Green route on saturday morning I had one of the best frisks I've ever had, proper got up close and personal with just the right amount of force... i was dissapointed when it ended.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:37 pm

Bloke in front of me caused confusion by demanding to be pat-searched due to having a pacemaker fitted.
Security staff didn't have a clue whether or not they could 'magic wand' him, neither did the squaddies ( RAFR ? ) doing the baggage searches.
Given the ensuing backlog, if I - or one of the number of people towing 'bomb-trolleys' - had been an explodydope that would have been the perfect opportunity to take out about a dozen obvious military personnel and dozens of civilians.
As for profiling, just look at the USA -- a fair number ( possibly the majority ) of those who've attempted/carried out terrorist attacks in recent years didn't exactly fit the profile.....in fact, the security staff would have been better off targeting the "typical fat, pasty, white 40-something spotter with lank hair" ( or any person with ginger hair & a beard, given the number of people fitting that description who've gone to fight for ISIL in recent years )
And of course you could also throw the likes of Anders Breivik into the equation.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:41 pm

From what I have seen both from my visits and via these threads, there was more security at ELO at the O2 last year than at RIAT,

makes little sense to me.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby mikek on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:44 pm

AlexC wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:The typical fat, pasty, white 40-something spotter with lank hair, a Def Leppard T-shirt stretched across his gut and a flask of weak lemon from his mum isn't going to attract the attention of security.


:lol: Thankfully that does not describe me! :sweat:


No Def Leppard t-shirt? :grin:
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby JohnnyM100 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:45 pm

I went in several days and got my bag searched on one of them though upon opening it became pretty obvious it was camera kit. I have no problem with my bag being searched.

No audible feedback from the wand but they did ask me about something in my pocket (different day) - I didn't hear a beep but don't know if they were set on silent with visual alert. Wallet was put in a bag before entry the following day.
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Re: RIAT Security

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:58 pm

pbeardmore wrote:From what I have seen both from my visits and via these threads, there was more security at ELO at the O2 last year than at RIAT,

makes little sense to me.


Probably because recently 20+ people were killed and dozens injured at a 'pop' concert (more technically, in the foyer/ atrium just outside, as Manchester Arena were keen to point out with indecent haste) where as far as I'm aware the biggest incident we've had at RIAT was the bloke who had his two miniature bottles of wine confiscated (which RIAT later apologised for as it shouldn't have happened).

It would be interesting to hear from RIAT what they do confiscate (if anything) but I'm guessing they will choose to mark that as 'classified' and not release it. At BHX they used to have a big perspex box with all the nail scissors etc in so you could see what their searches had found.
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