RIAT Security

Re: RIAT Security

Postby AlexC on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 1:34 pm

mikek wrote:No Def Leppard t-shirt? :grin:


Definitely not! And no beer belly to require covering up. :biggrin:
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP
User avatar
AlexC

Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 1:47 pm

speedbird2639 wrote:
pbeardmore wrote:From what I have seen both from my visits and via these threads, there was more security at ELO at the O2 last year than at RIAT,

makes little sense to me.


Probably because recently 20+ people were killed and dozens injured at a 'pop' concert (more technically, in the foyer/ atrium just outside, as Manchester Arena were keen to point out with indecent haste) where as far as I'm aware the biggest incident we've had at RIAT was the bloke who had his two miniature bottles of wine confiscated (which RIAT later apologised for as it shouldn't have happened).

It would be interesting to hear from RIAT what they do confiscate (if anything) but I'm guessing they will choose to mark that as 'classified' and not release it. At BHX they used to have a big perspex box with all the nail scissors etc in so you could see what their searches had found.


As with Grenfell Tower and fire security/protection... security re terrorism should be about anticipating a risk and dealing with that rather than chasing events after taking place ("lessons learnt" etc etc). RIAT clealry should be considered a target and IMHO, it would be wrong to think that pop concerts and Westminster are more at risk. Its dangerous to go down the route of "we have not had an incedent yet, therefore, that is representative of the risk"

"so far, so good" is not an appropriate tactic.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
User avatar
pbeardmore

Re: RIAT Security

Postby steveb23 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 1:59 pm

Agree with others on here, the queue would be the target. For me what RIAT 2017 achieved on the security side was:
1) Maintaining the level of risk on the showground as previous years
2) Increasing the risk to the public outside of the showground by allowing longer queues with no visible security patrolling them.

Someone really needs to look at that before the 2018 show.
steveb23

Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 2:04 pm

Its a good point re the queues, I suspect that, both legally and technically, taking on responsibility for security outside the perimeter is a big step up. I hate to be cynical but, if there was an incedent outside the perimter, RIAT would use that to justify how good their security was rather than the fact that the queues were created by the backlog. Very tricky
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
User avatar
pbeardmore

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Ewart on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 3:00 pm

Just a point a lot of the wands have a vibrate setting. So yes you might not hear a beep, but those operating them surely would have some feedback.

I got wanded and it got set off at a breakfast bar wrapper in my pocket.

It's seems RIAT are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

Check everyone and get moaned at due to really long queues. Don't check everyone and get moaned at due to lax security.
User avatar
Ewart

Re: RIAT Security

Postby DerekF on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 3:20 pm

What we had at the green entrance on Saturday first thing was both long queues and letting everyone through anyway.
User avatar
DerekF

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Ewart on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 3:26 pm

DerekF wrote:What we had at the green entrance on Saturday first thing was both long queues and letting everyone through anyway.


I queued at green on both Saturday and Sunday. Arrived around 0745hrs on both days.

Neither day would I say the queues were long, I was on base by 0810hrs at the latest. And they definitely weren't letting everyone through. Everyone was being wanded at the least.
User avatar
Ewart

Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 3:30 pm

"Check everyone and get moaned at due to really long queues. Don't check everyone and get moaned at due to lax security."

Employing more security staff not an option?
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
User avatar
pbeardmore

Re: RIAT Security

Postby jasonT1981 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 3:42 pm

Security wasn't too bad at Yellow. Arrived at Fairford at around 7:20am and was in by 7:40am on the Saturday. On the Sunday I was a bit later due to Bristol trains. I didn't get into Swindon until 9am and was in Fairford for 9:40am and there was no queue. I was right through security in less than a minute.


The checks didn't even bother me. They did their job, they ran a scanner over you, your bag looked in quickly and away. Even on the Saturday the actual process took around 45 seconds.
User avatar
jasonT1981

Re: RIAT Security

Postby DonaldGrump on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 3:59 pm

In reality a terrorist would be unlikely to target Fairford if taking out civilians was their aim, as there are much easier targets with lots of impact that would be preferable.

If however they wanted to hit the military and civilians supporting it then it becomes a target for an organised group of terrorists. In which case they would certainly want to get inside the base. I doubt they would be using the main entrance, far more likely over/through the fence. A small group armed to the teeth could cause havoc before being stopped.

One thing is certain whatever the event or any public place that attracts crowds the threat is a real one sadly and security needs to be ever increasing necessity. Unfortunately even extensive and well trained security staff are very much up against it when trying to thwart a determined and well trained group of terrorists. Problem is these people are on a one way mission.
DonaldGrump

Re: RIAT Security

Postby The Baron on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 4:01 pm

Ewart wrote:
DerekF wrote:What we had at the green entrance on Saturday first thing was both long queues and letting everyone through anyway.


I queued at green on both Saturday and Sunday. Arrived around 0745hrs on both days.

Neither day would I say the queues were long, I was on base by 0810hrs at the latest. And they definitely weren't letting everyone through. Everyone was being wanded at the least.


I can quite definitely say they weren't. I was 'wanded' on Friday coming through Blue, but got away with no checks on Saturday and Sunday when coming through Green.
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.
User avatar
The Baron

Re: RIAT Security

Postby boff180 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 4:05 pm

Wednesday - wanded at East
Thursday - wanded and bag searched at Blue
Friday - wanded at Red
Saturday - wanded and bag searched at Red
Sunday - wanded and bag searched at Red
Monday - let straight in at Blue

There was a marked increase in the number of armed officers on patrol this year, yesterday the "FRIAT corridor" to/from blue and the enclosure was even guarded either side by armed soldiers!

Whilst visible security does have its perks, invisible security is just as effective.
User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Spotty_Jag on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 4:11 pm

boff180 wrote:There was a marked increase in the number of armed officers on patrol this year, yesterday the "FRIAT corridor" to/from blue and the enclosure was even guarded either side by armed soldiers!

Airmen, from the Royal Air Force. Not soldiers.
User avatar
Spotty_Jag

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 4:11 pm

pbeardmore wrote:Employing more security staff not an option?

Speaking for 'Blue'....The number security staff aren't the problem, it's the simple logistics of the number of baggage-checking points they can fit in the available space.
If they moved the entrance/checking area about 10 yards further back they'd pretty much double the space available & would therefore be able to fit more check-points in.

One of the big problems is the ridiculous amount of stuff some people are bringing in ( the 'bomb-trolley brigade' )....if they stopped that happening it would speed things up considerably.
The Champions League Finals had a well-publicised 'no bags' policy for anyone entering the stadium, and given that the attendance figures for that were around the 65,000 mark there surely can't be any good reason why something similar couldn't be introduced for RIAT ( such as restricting it to hand luggage/rucksacks )
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
User avatar
Brevet Cable

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 4:34 pm

DonaldGrump wrote:In reality a terrorist would be unlikely to target Fairford if taking out civilians was their aim, as there are much easier targets with lots of impact that would be preferable.

You'd also have to factor in the effect targeting high-profile events have, usually far greater than the number of casualties involved.
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
User avatar
Brevet Cable

Re: RIAT Security

Postby DonaldGrump on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 4:48 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote:In reality a terrorist would be unlikely to target Fairford if taking out civilians was their aim, as there are much easier targets with lots of impact that would be preferable.

You'd also have to factor in the effect targeting high-profile events have, usually far greater than the number of casualties involved.


With out any doubt RIAT would have a huge impact and press coverage of any kind of attack. On that basis they cannot rule anything out and have to do their best to combat any such attempt.

I still think for a relatively low level lone wolf there would be many easier targets mostly in our major cities. Lets face it blowing up a load of people in the vicinity of Old Trafford on a dark Champions league is going to have a higher chance of being carried out where and when the terrorist wants without being tackled before, not so easy in broad daylight in a place where lots of men with guns are a mere 30 seconds away if your lucky.
DonaldGrump

Re: RIAT Security

Postby speedbird2639 on Tue 18 Jul 2017, 6:07 pm

Spotty_Jag wrote:
boff180 wrote:There was a marked increase in the number of armed officers on patrol this year, yesterday the "FRIAT corridor" to/from blue and the enclosure was even guarded either side by armed soldiers!

Airmen, from the Royal Air Force. Not soldiers.


Pedant

:clown:
User avatar
speedbird2639

Re: RIAT Security

Postby DerekF on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 6:58 am

Ewart wrote:
DerekF wrote:What we had at the green entrance on Saturday first thing was both long queues and letting everyone through anyway.


I queued at green on both Saturday and Sunday. Arrived around 0745hrs on both days.

Neither day would I say the queues were long, I was on base by 0810hrs at the latest. And they definitely weren't letting everyone through. Everyone was being wanded at the least.


All I can say is that on Saturday I wasn't wanded, nor were my bags checked. I joined an already long queue at 0645 and it took nearly an hour from gates opening until I was in the showground at around 0825. Maybe I chose the wrong queue but that's what happened to me.
User avatar
DerekF

Re: RIAT Security

Postby daveseth on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 10:39 am

hi,
I went Friday and at the yellow entrance a LOT of school children were entering so it started to back up, I was wanded but as its been said money, keys, phone did not beep so??/ at 1040 nearly all bags were being searched, the SAC had a good rummage, took my small camera out of its bag, then he smiled and said ok. Whilst I was un-rummaging my contents I mentioned I had had search training and were told NEVER put your hands in a bag cause of sharp objects, ask the person to remove items so you could see, he nodded and smiled, in all about 20mins.
As to other venue searches they are done by proper search security companies, RIAT used airmen/airwomen...
daveseth

Re: RIAT Security

Postby coanda on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 11:44 am

I was wanded and had my case and rucksack x-rayed every time I went through blue. I chose to arrive when I expected there to be no or minimal queuing and therefore I got the full treatment. The wands do work and I was asked to show what was in a pocket after the wand was passed over it (well i emptied my change and keys etc in to my hands at first but was told I didn't need to).

I noticed some interesting changes to visible security over last year. As far as I am concerned, the security was effective enough, polite and friendly.
coanda

Re: RIAT Security

Postby boff180 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 11:54 am

I always rock up early when the car parks open on show days, grab breakfast and have a kip until the gates have opened and the queue subsides before entering.

I noticed on Sunday this year whilst waiting for my Sausage and Egg bap at Red (around 0620).... security were pre-clearing peoples bags in the queue so that they didn't need doing when the gates opened.
User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Wes_Howes on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 1:31 pm

:oops: Rather embarrassingly I left one of those Swiss Army credit card things, in my wallet on Saturday as I went into the show. I was wanded(?) and asked what was in my pockets so I told the security chap, keys, phone, wallet and was waved through. It was only when I got some money out at the burger van that I noticed my error :oops:

Ok the blade isn't going to do too much damage to anyone but still, it was a little eye-opening as to how easy it was. And no I don't own a Def Leppard t-shirt either :tongue:
User avatar
Wes_Howes

Re: RIAT Security

Postby pbeardmore on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 2:15 pm

"I still think for a relatively low level lone wolf there would be many easier targets mostly in our major cities. Lets face it blowing up a load of people in the vicinity of Old Trafford on a dark Champions league is going to have a higher chance of being carried out where and when the terrorist wants without being tackled before, not so easy in broad daylight in a place where lots of men with guns are a mere 30 seconds away if your lucky."

You are applying logic which really does not apply. Remember the guy who tried to enter Westminster with a knife? knowing it was one of the most secure areas in London with plenty of armed officers. He never stood a chance of gaining acess without being killed but that did not stop him trying.
“The best computer is a man, and it’s the only one that can be mass-produced by unskilled labour.”
User avatar
pbeardmore

Re: RIAT Security

Postby pb643 on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 3:12 pm

Brevet Cable wrote: one of the number of people towing 'bomb-trolleys'



The number of these this year was astonishing. How are you ever realistically going to search the amount of stuff some people bring with them? The actual structure of some of the trolleys, ladders and ladder trolley combinations, could hide a multitude of things, before they piled up with the kitchen sink. So logically a significant factor in the queue length and security, would be to limit the volume of gear people can bring in.

I am not familiar with what is band. If you can bring a full picnic, could you take in knives too?

It has always puzzled me why more use is not made of dogs? I recently visited Chatsworth flower show and as you entered, you passed between 3 search dogs. You would have thought that dogs would be a suitable method of clearing a lot of baggage quickly?
pb643

Re: RIAT Security

Postby Andyperkins on Wed 19 Jul 2017, 4:01 pm

Something I found quite bizarre was the fact that several times an hour you would hear over the speakers 'please keep an eye out for unattended bags and to report them' but throughout the day I would see people get up out of their chairs and go off sometimes not returning for hours but they were leaving all their things there which if reported could no doubt cause the show to grind to a halt.
Andyperkins

PreviousNext

Return to Royal International Air Tattoo

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cg_341 and 9 guests