What is it with the USAF?

What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 6:04 am

Can anyone explain if there is any reason other than ego/willy waving/general high and mightyness or whatever you want to call it, why the USAF always arrive early and leave late with certain of their airshow assets? The Thunderbirds, Lancer and Buff are three obvious examples this year but there's always something. There seemed no reason at all for the two heavy bombers to leave on Tuesday instead of Monday, so why?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby boff180 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 6:11 am

I don't know the answer but a likely one is it is ops related. Not only that they have a mission scheduled for that day but also tanker availability.etc.

Andy
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boff180
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Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby DerekF on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 7:16 am

I remember the B-52 leaving late or last many times. In those days, because of the larger numbers of aircraft, it had to leave last as it needed the room to get out. I doubt it has anything to do with
ego/willy waving/general high and mightyness
. If that was the case, surely they would want to leave in front of a crowd and not when everyone's gone?

After this year's air tattoo and very generous US participation, criticism of the USAF seems a little petty.
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DerekF

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby speedbird2639 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 7:57 am

Going to have to break the habit of a lifetime and agree with Derek on this one.

Excellent participation (B-52, B-1B, U-2, on static; B-2 fly past; USAF 70th fly past; Thunderbirds for the first time in 10 years) - the fuel bill alone must have been eye watering.

Coupled with if it wasn't for USAF/ DoD continued presence at FFD then the airfield would most likely be something like Upper Heyford with the buildings rented out and the runway covered in new/ scrapage cars and given the RAF's current catalogue of large airfields then in all probability that would mean no RIAT.

So its a 'Chapeau!' from me to our New World cousins this year.
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Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby sopwithflyer on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 8:38 am

Is this what you are you are going to do when you make headmaster CJS? You have the power, (high and mightiness) so you are going to wave your willy around in front of the kids and tell them they can't go home until Tuesday. :shock:
sopwithflyer

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby mikek on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:12 am

CJS wrote:Can anyone explain if there is any reason other than ego/willy waving/general high and mightyness or whatever you want to call it, why the USAF always arrive early and leave late with certain of their airshow assets? The Thunderbirds, Lancer and Buff are three obvious examples this year but there's always something. There seemed no reason at all for the two heavy bombers to leave on Tuesday instead of Monday, so why?


hmm... wouldn't you want to extend a works jolly a couple of days if you could?
+ it's quite a long way to get here if coming from the U.S.. perhaps it's to avoid fatigue.
many possible reasons come to mind. can they not arrive & leave when it suits them?
they were very generous sending what they did. i mean c'mon, T'birds, B-1, B-2, U-2, B-52....!!!!
it wouldn't have been1/2 the show it was without them. I can't see the issue.
Handsomest UKAR member.
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mikek

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:16 am

Oh grow up some of you, it's a perfectly valid question. :roll:

I'm not criticising the US for their participation at the show, simply asking why they often don't arrive and leave when everyone else does.

Andy (thanks for your sensible reply) - yes ops, tanker availability maybe but no-one else seems to have the same problem, hence the question.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:19 am

sopwithflyer wrote:Is this what you are you are going to do when you make headmaster CJS? You have the power, (high and mightiness) so you are going to wave your willy around in front of the kids and tell them they can't go home until Tuesday. :shock:


You are joking, right? :grin:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby mikek on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:19 am

CJS wrote:Oh grow up some of you, it's a perfectly valid question. :roll:

I'm not criticising the US for their participation at the show, simply asking why they often don't arrive and leave when everyone else does.

Andy (thanks for your sensible reply) - yes ops, tanker availability maybe but no-one else seems to have the same problem, hence the question.


there was a valid question in there IMO, just the way the whole thing came across.
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mikek

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:21 am

mikek wrote:
CJS wrote:Oh grow up some of you, it's a perfectly valid question. :roll:

I'm not criticising the US for their participation at the show, simply asking why they often don't arrive and leave when everyone else does.

Andy (thanks for your sensible reply) - yes ops, tanker availability maybe but no-one else seems to have the same problem, hence the question.


there was a valid question in there IMO, just the way the whole thing came across.


Yeah OK, point taken - the thread title could have been a bit different in tone. Still, some people could actually read the post before getting at me (not you mikek). :grin:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby AARDVARK on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:31 am

CJS wrote:Can anyone explain if there is any reason other than ego/willy waving/general high and mightyness or whatever you want to call it, why the USAF always arrive early and leave late with certain of their airshow assets? The Thunderbirds, Lancer and Buff are three obvious examples this year but there's always something. There seemed no reason at all for the two heavy bombers to leave on Tuesday instead of Monday, so why?


Could be to do with booking Tankers ,I guess they are busy bunnies and a few planes that attended an airshow in the U.K. probably don't take top priority in the list ,I suspect with the T Birds it was to give them a chance to have r&r begire starting up their practice routines!
AARDVARK

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby aceyone on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:45 am

Who cares ,( apart from Mr Chips :grin: ) just happy that they were there !
Don't know about those jets ,they spoil a very nice place
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aceyone

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby sopwithflyer on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:51 am

CJS wrote:
sopwithflyer wrote:Is this what you are you are going to do when you make headmaster CJS? You have the power, (high and mightiness) so you are going to wave your willy around in front of the kids and tell them they can't go home until Tuesday. :shock:


You are joking, right? :grin:


Heard you had the balls for it! The kids told me. But no course not.
sopwithflyer

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby Witchcraft24 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:58 am

Read the first sentence (and title) of your post again and tell me that it doesn't make you look like the sort of ignorant person who gives this hobby a bad name (along with those who complain that the Apache display wasn't positioned just for them).

I'd edit it if I were you.
Witchcraft24

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby DerekF on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:59 am

CJS wrote:Oh grow up some of you, it's a perfectly valid question. :roll:

I'm not criticising the US for their participation at the show, simply asking why they often don't arrive and leave when everyone else does.

Andy (thanks for your sensible reply) - yes ops, tanker availability maybe but no-one else seems to have the same problem, hence the question.


If it was valid question you need to brush up on your delivery to get a valid answer. It came across and sneering and disrespectful, something the USAF don't deserve in light of their participation efforts.
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DerekF

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:10 am

Yikes. :hide: I'll be sure to run my posts past you in the future before I slick submit Derek. :roll:

Open apology to the USAF, other US air arms and everyone who is a US citizen - I am really really sorry that my question was sneering and disrespectful and I promise never to question anything you do ever again, especially if you send aircraft to our airshow. You are are all wonderful and, of course, never deserving of any questions or (even though it wasn't) criticism.

I mean, come on. :wall:

:pinkwafer:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby Gooze on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:25 am

I really dont understand the negativity in this forum lately. Do people purposefully post these topics to encourage arguments?

In what I think is an extremely simple answer to the original stretched out question....

........These aircraft are active military assets. Not airshow toys.

Any suggestions that we or the airshow organisers have any control over US mil aircraft (on a US airfield might I add) are in cuckcoo land.

period. fact. :surrender:
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Gooze

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:33 am

Gooze wrote:I really dont understand the negativity in this forum lately. Do people purposefully post these topics to encourage arguments?

In what I think is an extremely simple answer to the original stretched out question....

........These aircraft are active military assets. Not airshow toys.

Any suggestions that we or the airshow organisers have any control over US mil aircraft (on a US airfield might I add) are in cuckcoo land.

period. fact. :surrender:


For goodness' sake, no. :wall: :wall: :wall:

Again, my point has been missed. Most of what attends RIAT is an active military asset, and it (bar going tech) leaves by the end of Monday, not so some US assets, regularly. Perhaps they stay because it's a US base and therefore they can, whereas everything else has to leave by the end of the Monday? Also with the arrivals, it is common for US aircraft to arrive before the P&V has opened on the Wednesday.

I don't even care that much, was just curious. Wish I hadn't bothered now.

Oh, and nowhere did I call them airshow toys, or criticise the US participation. I just...oh nevermind.

:pinkwafer: (and I mean it this time).
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby Gooze on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:37 am

It's a US airfield.

Their own ATC
Their own ground support
Their own ops
Their own accommodation
Their own fuel (trucked in from Brize)
etc
etc

They are under no obligation to bang out early on monday or arrive last min on friday.

See my point.....?

Regards,

Sam B :king:
Last edited by Gooze on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gooze

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby DerekF on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:37 am

CJS wrote:Yikes. :hide: I'll be sure to run my posts past you in the future before I slick submit Derek. :roll:

Open apology to the USAF, other US air arms and everyone who is a US citizen - I am really really sorry that my question was sneering and disrespectful and I promise never to question anything you do ever again, especially if you send aircraft to our airshow. You are are all wonderful and, of course, never deserving of any questions or (even though it wasn't) criticism.

I mean, come on. :wall:

:pinkwafer:


If you don't have the ability to ask a sensible question in polite manner then I'm only too happy to vet your posts for you. :smile: Your somewhat over-the-top reaction would suggest that you don't have that ability.
Part of the problem with fora in general is not what is asked but the way it is asked. Your attitude in your original post was clearly designed to provoke a reaction. If you said

Something I was wondering. Does anyone know why USAF aircraft often arrive early and stay for a day or two after all other show aircraft have left?


I think you might have got better answers. If that was your intention.
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DerekF

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby Gooze on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:40 am

DerekF wrote:
CJS wrote:Yikes. :hide: I'll be sure to run my posts past you in the future before I slick submit Derek. :roll:

Open apology to the USAF, other US air arms and everyone who is a US citizen - I am really really sorry that my question was sneering and disrespectful and I promise never to question anything you do ever again, especially if you send aircraft to our airshow. You are are all wonderful and, of course, never deserving of any questions or (even though it wasn't) criticism.

I mean, come on. :wall:

:pinkwafer:


If you don't have the ability to ask a sensible question in polite manner then I'm only too happy to vet your posts for you. :smile: Your somewhat over-the-top reaction would suggest that you don't have that ability.
Part of the problem with fora in general is not what is asked but the way it is asked. Your attitude in your original post was clearly designed to provoke a reaction. If you said

Something I was wondering. Does anyone know why USAF aircraft often arrive early and stay for a day or two after all other show aircraft have left?


I think you might have got better answers. If that was your intention.


:up:
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Gooze

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby n0143773 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:53 am

I would have thought security plays a part. Bigger crowds create a bigger risk of incident. They have everything they need at the base anyway, so why rush in/out with loads of people around. US assets are certainly more appealing to trouble makers than those of, say, Switzerland or New Zealand.
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n0143773

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby UKTopgun on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:39 pm

Geez people will find anything to be critical about, I think this thread is a nonsense! How about giving USAF/USAFE great credit for the best RIAT contribution for years, in terms of assets but also in terms of a great attitude to meeting the public. Always chatty, helpful, polite, and this one I really did notice - in front of their aeroplanes from really early to really late, still going when most air arms had gone home. They epitomise great PR and they were all a credit to the country when I visited FFD on Saturday. :clap: :clap: :clap:
UKTopgun
UKAR Supporter

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 1:17 pm

UKTopgun wrote:Geez people will find anything to be critical about, I think this thread is a nonsense! How about giving USAF/USAFE great credit for the best RIAT contribution for years, in terms of assets but also in terms of a great attitude to meeting the public. Always chatty, helpful, polite, and this one I really did notice - in front of their aeroplanes from really early to really late, still going when most air arms had gone home. They epitomise great PR and they were all a credit to the country when I visited FFD on Saturday. :clap: :clap: :clap:


Right, because I seem to be talking to myself, despite actually saying on at least one occasion that I wasn't criticising the USAF for their sterling work in what they sent to RIAT this year, I would like to retract the bold part of my original question below...

CJS wrote:Can anyone explain if there is any reason other than ego/willy waving/general high and mightyness or whatever you want to call it, why the USAF always arrive early and leave late with certain of their airshow assets? The Thunderbirds, Lancer and Buff are three obvious examples this year but there's always something. There seemed no reason at all for the two heavy bombers to leave on Tuesday instead of Monday, so why?


There, is that better? Because, quite frankly, 'Geez, people will find anything to moan about'...

1. I asked a question, a simple question about the times and days of certain USAF arrivals and departures;
2. I may have worded it poorly but it was blindingly obvious what I meant (at least it should have been);
3. At least a few UKARians, including one staffer, managed to reply sensibly, in a way which makes me think the question wasn't exactly hidden deeply within my, what was it, 'sneering and disrespectful' post.

I know I'm not meant to keep coming back after planting a pink wafer, but it's becoming a little tiring tha...oh whatever.

I was wrong, I'm awful, I'm sorry for any offence caused.

:surrender: :wave: :tongue2:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: What is it with the USAF?

Postby Witchcraft24 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 1:27 pm

Why don't you just edit your post in the sensible way DerekF suggested, and then let this thread get cleaned up by the Mods?
Witchcraft24

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