The future of RIAT

[G67]

Previously it was stated that maximum showground capacity was 85,000 per day, so in combination with the Friday insurance thresholds mentioned above it makes 'sense' to open Friday for the public too. Not very enjoyable from an enthusiast's perspective, though.

[farnboroughrob]

One of the things I have always wondered is do DBH actually pay for the military aircraft to display? Do they pay for the fuel? I assume they do pay for aircrew accommodation? The charity aspect is a bit like the national lottery we all know some goes to charity but we don't play it because of that, we play it to win. I wen't on Friday this year and it was good, but I am not a flying display junkie, I just want to see the aircraft, and record the numbers and take some photos of the static. Which is probably why I will go back to Monday only again next year. No walking miles, it's cheaper, and I can get there a little later. The result is the same, a day out and a book full of numbers. I go spotting every day, pretty much, so RIAT is not the be all of my year.

[iainpeden]

This discussion was being had in 1983 when the cruise missiles were being installed at Greenham.

[Ouragan]

Using formulae to work out whether the show is value for money is, frankly, cobblers. It's a matter of perspective, and while one person will attend and think it is wonderful value, the person next to them may not. There are many reasons for it and it will always be a subjective matter. And, also, anyone who thinks that the ticket price is the ONLY expense of Fairford weekend is living in la-la land. Factor in travel, accommodation and meals, food etc, and it can become an expensive weekend beyond the means of many.

But as to the future of RIAT, I surmise from the future dates posted on the website that presently DBH have an agreement to hold RIAT at Fairford up to 2022. Beyond that, with part of the RC-135 fleet being a resident at Fairford -and all the security issues that will present- it is a possibility that RIAT will be more constrained at Fairford or may have to look for a new home.

Should the latter happen, the only location I can think of that is big enough is Boscombe Down, but with the owners being more commercially minded than when it was last there, and with the post-Shoreham authorities unlikely to look kindly on display aircraft manoeuvring over the A303 packed with holiday traffic, that may be a non-starter.

[FarnboroJohn]

But as to the future of RIAT, I surmise from the future dates posted on the website that presently DBH have an agreement to hold RIAT at Fairford up to 2022. Beyond that, with part of the RC-135 fleet being a resident at Fairford -and all the security issues that will present- it is a possibility that RIAT will be more constrained at Fairford or may have to look for a new home.

Can't remember RC-135 (or SR-71) presence at Mildenhall ever being an issue for the Air Fete, perhaps we are being (a) premature and (b) over imaginative.

[st24]

Should the latter happen, the only location I can think of that is big enough is Boscombe Down, but with the owners being more commercially minded than when it was last there, and with the post-Shoreham authorities unlikely to look kindly on display aircraft manoeuvring over the A303 packed with holiday traffic, that may be a non-starter.

I think aircraft displaying over the town of Amesbury would be far more a factor.

[G67]

One of the things I have always wondered is do DBH actually pay for the military aircraft to display? Do they pay for the fuel? I assume they do pay for aircrew accommodation? .

For NATO assets I believe the answers are: no / yes / yes
For non-NATO and booked civilian: yes / yes / yes
For civilian 'volunteers' like Chipmunks on static I don't know for certain, I'd guess no / no / yes

[farnboroughrob]

One of the things I have always wondered is do DBH actually pay for the military aircraft to display? Do they pay for the fuel? I assume they do pay for aircrew accommodation? .

For NATO assets I believe the answers are: no / yes / yes
For non-NATO and booked civilian: yes / yes / yes
For civilian 'volunteers' like Chipmunks on static I don't know for certain, I'd guess no / no / yes

Thanks I wonder what the fuel bill alone is? I am assuming all historic aircraft are paid for in some way, even if it is a tank of fuel?

[BossMann]

I wasn't aware that the future of RAF Fairford was in doubt and it was going to be the 'home' of RIAT. Other USAF/ RAF bases have been closed in the past but RAF Fairford has always survived...

Or is the issue with the RC135s that will move in, making RAF Fairford like RAF Waddington as an intelligence base that no public are allowed on?

RAF Fairford is a superb airfield for RIAT and we are very lucky to have a show like RIAT in the UK - many thanks to all at DBH that have made RIAT what it is today.

However since RAFCTE don't actually 'own' RAF Fairford can RIAT stay there once the RC135s move in?? Does anyone know what agreement RAFCTE have with RAF Fairford and how long it lasts?

If as mentioned above RIAT is at RAF Fairford until 2022... then where after that?? No other airfield can accommodate the show size of RIAT. However, last week the MOD did announce that RAF Scampton would be closing in 2010 and sold. Could RAFCTE 'buy' RAF Scampton and spend 2 years sorting out the taxiways/ runway/ creating more static areas and create a permanent home for RIAT if RAF Fairford cannot accommodate the show in the future???? DBH could move to the new RAFCTE Scampton also. They could set it up as a IWM Duxford set up with a museum on site all year round and still allow the Reds to practise over the site and have other events and shows during the rest of the year, they could also invite the SBAC to move the Farnborough show to this new purpose built airshow venue if there are issues with the built up area surrounding Farnborough and aircraft cannot display there in the future...

Just a thought

[NTG1610]

I wasn't aware that the future of RAF Fairford was in doubt and it was going to be the 'home' of RIAT. Other USAF/ RAF bases have been closed in the past but RAF Fairford has always survived...

Or is the issue with the RC135s that will move in, making RAF Fairford like RAF Waddington as an intelligence base that no public are allowed on?

RAF Fairford is a superb airfield for RIAT and we are very lucky to have a show like RIAT in the UK - many thanks to all at DBH that have made RIAT what it is today.

However since RAFCTE don't actually 'own' RAF Fairford can RIAT stay there once the RC135s move in?? Does anyone know what agreement RAFCTE have with RAF Fairford and how long it lasts?

If as mentioned above RIAT is at RAF Fairford until 2022... then where after that?? No other airfield can accommodate the show size of RIAT. However, last week the MOD did announce that RAF Scampton would be closing in 2010 and sold. Could RAFCTE 'buy' RAF Scampton and spend 2 years sorting out the taxiways/ runway/ creating more static areas and create a permanent home for RIAT if RAF Fairford cannot accommodate the show in the future???? DBH could move to the new RAFCTE Scampton also. They could set it up as a IWM Duxford set up with a museum on site all year round and still allow the Reds to practise over the site and have other events and shows during the rest of the year, they could also invite the SBAC to move the Farnborough show to this new purpose built airshow venue if there are issues with the built up area surrounding Farnborough and aircraft cannot display there in the future...

Just a thought

Good idea just one problem, to far from London

Boscombe Down could handle RIAT as it has done before with many more aircraft than we had at Fairford this year

[BossMann]

I wasn't aware that the future of RAF Fairford was in doubt and it was going to be the 'home' of RIAT. Other USAF/ RAF bases have been closed in the past but RAF Fairford has always survived...

Or is the issue with the RC135s that will move in, making RAF Fairford like RAF Waddington as an intelligence base that no public are allowed on?

RAF Fairford is a superb airfield for RIAT and we are very lucky to have a show like RIAT in the UK - many thanks to all at DBH that have made RIAT what it is today.

However since RAFCTE don't actually 'own' RAF Fairford can RIAT stay there once the RC135s move in?? Does anyone know what agreement RAFCTE have with RAF Fairford and how long it lasts?

If as mentioned above RIAT is at RAF Fairford until 2022... then where after that?? No other airfield can accommodate the show size of RIAT. However, last week the MOD did announce that RAF Scampton would be closing in 2010 and sold. Could RAFCTE 'buy' RAF Scampton and spend 2 years sorting out the taxiways/ runway/ creating more static areas and create a permanent home for RIAT if RAF Fairford cannot accommodate the show in the future???? DBH could move to the new RAFCTE Scampton also. They could set it up as a IWM Duxford set up with a museum on site all year round and still allow the Reds to practise over the site and have other events and shows during the rest of the year, they could also invite the SBAC to move the Farnborough show to this new purpose built airshow venue if there are issues with the built up area surrounding Farnborough and aircraft cannot display there in the future...

Just a thought

Good idea just one problem, to far from London

Boscombe Down could handle RIAT as it has done before with many more aircraft than we had at Fairford this year

Wasn't Boscombe Down evaluated when RIAT needed to move in 2000/ 2001 due to runway resurfacing works at RAF Fairford?? It went to RAF Cottesmore for whatever reason not Boscombe Down although I recall everyone wanted it at Boscombe Down as it had hosted ATI 1990/ 1992. It might have been that they couldn't give the airfield away for 2 weeks to accommodate RIAT

RAF Cottesmore isn't that close to London although RAF Scampton is a bit more 'central' to the UK - but it is available to buy which Boscombe Down isn't!

Having never been to any of the shows at Boscombe Down it would be interesting...

[Talldan76]

I wasn't aware that the future of RAF Fairford was in doubt and it was going to be the 'home' of RIAT. Other USAF/ RAF bases have been closed in the past but RAF Fairford has always survived...

Or is the issue with the RC135s that will move in, making RAF Fairford like RAF Waddington as an intelligence base that no public are allowed on?

RAF Fairford is a superb airfield for RIAT and we are very lucky to have a show like RIAT in the UK - many thanks to all at DBH that have made RIAT what it is today.

However since RAFCTE don't actually 'own' RAF Fairford can RIAT stay there once the RC135s move in?? Does anyone know what agreement RAFCTE have with RAF Fairford and how long it lasts?

If as mentioned above RIAT is at RAF Fairford until 2022... then where after that?? No other airfield can accommodate the show size of RIAT. However, last week the MOD did announce that RAF Scampton would be closing in 2010 and sold. Could RAFCTE 'buy' RAF Scampton and spend 2 years sorting out the taxiways/ runway/ creating more static areas and create a permanent home for RIAT if RAF Fairford cannot accommodate the show in the future???? DBH could move to the new RAFCTE Scampton also. They could set it up as a IWM Duxford set up with a museum on site all year round and still allow the Reds to practise over the site and have other events and shows during the rest of the year, they could also invite the SBAC to move the Farnborough show to this new purpose built airshow venue if there are issues with the built up area surrounding Farnborough and aircraft cannot display there in the future...

Just a thought

Good idea just one problem, to far from London

Boscombe Down could handle RIAT as it has done before with many more aircraft than we had at Fairford this year

Wasn't Boscombe Down evaluated when RIAT needed to move in 2000/ 2001 due to runway resurfacing works at RAF Fairford?? It went to RAF Cottesmore for whatever reason not Boscombe Down although I recall everyone wanted it at Boscombe Down as it had hosted ATI 1990/ 1992. It might have been that they couldn't give the airfield away for 2 weeks to accommodate RIAT

RAF Cottesmore isn't that close to London although RAF Scampton is a bit more 'central' to the UK - but it is available to buy which Boscombe Down isn't!

Having never been to any of the shows at Boscombe Down it would be interesting...

Sorry, but are you really suggesting that the RAF Charity seriously buy a run down airfield, spend charitable money doing up run down hangars, taxiways and other infrastructure? Do you have any idea as to how much money that would cost?

All of that, when the base would only be used for income generation from shows, for what, a maximum of 1.5 - 3 weeks per year...?

All this for what is a charity, that can't realistically make that much when all the expenses from RIAT are totalled up.

[BossMann]

I wasn't aware that the RAFCTE doesn't make a huge profit after RIAT.

Was only thinking along the lines of if the RAFCTE owned their own airfield the future of RIAT would be secured... Maybe the RAF/ MOD could 'gift' RAF Scampton to RAFCTE for a future home of RIAT ???

HHA could stay and pay rent, other operators could come to Scampton. Even VTTS could possibly move to Scampton and public could finally see the Vulcan fast taxis.. Reds could still practise but RAFCTE could charge to park on the base car park for spectators and have a year round viewing area - free to FRIAT members obviously

All this plus RIAT in July

Like at old warden/ Duxford maybe RAFCTE could also have a spring air show in May and a Battle of Britain show in September given that the airfield will always be 'Airshow ready' without much additional work needed....

[Skyflash]

I wasn't aware that the RAFCTE doesn't make a huge profit after RIAT.

Was only thinking along the lines of if the RAFCTE owned their own airfield the future of RIAT would be secured... Maybe the RAF/ MOD could 'gift' RAF Scampton to RAFCTE for a future home of RIAT ???

HHA could stay and pay rent, other operators could come to Scampton. Even VTTS could possibly move to Scampton and public could finally see the Vulcan fast taxis.. Reds could still practise but RAFCTE could charge to park on the base car park for spectators and have a year round viewing area - free to FRIAT members obviously

All this plus RIAT in July

Like at old warden/ Duxford maybe RAFCTE could also have a spring air show in May and a Battle of Britain show in September given that the airfield will always be 'Airshow ready' without much additional work needed....

This has to be one of the most delightfully barmy suggestions I have read on the forum in quite some time...

I suspect, though seriously hope I'm wrong, that if RIAT needs to move from Fairford then it will pretty much signal the end of the show. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

[pb643]

I wasn't aware that the RAFCTE doesn't make a huge profit after RIAT.

Was only thinking along the lines of if the RAFCTE owned their own airfield the future of RIAT would be secured... Maybe the RAF/ MOD could 'gift' RAF Scampton to RAFCTE for a future home of RIAT ???

HHA could stay and pay rent, other operators could come to Scampton. Even VTTS could possibly move to Scampton and public could finally see the Vulcan fast taxis.. Reds could still practise but RAFCTE could charge to park on the base car park for spectators and have a year round viewing area - free to FRIAT members obviously

All this plus RIAT in July

Like at old warden/ Duxford maybe RAFCTE could also have a spring air show in May and a Battle of Britain show in September given that the airfield will always be 'Airshow ready' without much additional work needed....

I think there is "huge", then there is HUGE!
I can only guess, but I would suspect bringing Scampton upto an equivalent level of repair to Fairford , would solve what to do with the charitable donations for the next 50-100 years or so. Even then, there still only be a fraction of the area of Fairford available. Fairford layout works very well for RIAT, I am not sure how many other airfields have a similar layout, with the huge dispersal areas. Probably almost exclusive to USAF bases? I honestly can't recall the layout at Boscombe, seems a lifetime ago

[AlexC]

Boscombe Down could handle RIAT as it has done before with many more aircraft than we had at Fairford this year

I was amazed when it was announced that that the 1990 IAT (think it was 1990?) was going to be held at Boscombe Down, but very pleased as I don't live that far away (I pass it on my way to Fairford) so it was very convenient for me. Can't see the airshow going there again though. And Fairford is a much better venue then Greenham Common, so those pathetic women did us all a favour although they still like to tell any gullible listener at any opportunity that they got rid of the cruise missiles.

[lynothehammer]

For a family of 4.... with a 13yo and 10yo.....

Going to see the Wasps play for 80 minutes, decent seats bought in advance = £102

Going to see Manchester United play for 90 minutes, crap seats bought in advance as a one-off = £108

A day out at Alton Towers with tickets bought in advance = £126.50 (£213 full price)

A day out at the 2019 Silverstone Grand Prix without grandstand = £420

A day out at RIAT 2018 with 8hrs of flying and 2 miles of static - earlybird advanced tickets = £100 (£110 full price)

Really bad value for money...…

Absolutely spot on, I always compare it to Legoland. For me and my 6 year old that would cost £80+ just for entrance & parking.

Even though i didn't enjoy RIAT as much this year as i usually do it's still fantastic value for money.

I have to look at things very differently now with children, my little one enjoyed Farnborough Airshow this year and that cost me £42. I came away happy knowing he'd enjoyed himself.

[BossMann]

Have RAFCTE said anything about having to move RIAT from RAF Fairford once it becomes a fully operational airfield with the USAF RC135s ( and the RAF RC 135s from No 51 Sq )?

Would the presence of based intelligence aircraft force RIAT to move as it did with the Waddington Airshow??

[MiG_Eater]

I always thought the Waddington Airshow move was due to the UCAVs being operated from the base.

[Berf]

Waddington show stopped because the runway was renewed. There was then review of RAF airshow commitments which said no more at Waddington due to significant security concerns and operational risks which is RAF speak for - we don't want to bother with any shows any more and will leave it up to RIAT, we can throw them a bone called Scampton but that's knackered so won't last long and after than **** 100th anniversary we can get rid of all this airshow stuff once and for all.

I can sure say that all those that said the CAA killed airshows are so wrong - it was the RAF.

[iaint]

Have RAFCTE said anything about having to move RIAT from RAF Fairford once it becomes a fully operational airfield with the USAF RC135s ( and the RAF RC 135s from No 51 Sq )?

No, they haven’t. Probably because there is nothing to say.

[BossMann]

Have RAFCTE said anything about having to move RIAT from RAF Fairford once it becomes a fully operational airfield with the USAF RC135s ( and the RAF RC 135s from No 51 Sq )?

No, they haven’t. Probably because there is nothing to say.

That's great RAF Fairford is a great airshow venue and we are lucky to have RIAT in the UK - long may it continue at RAF Fairford

[MiG_Eater]

Have RAFCTE said anything about having to move RIAT from RAF Fairford once it becomes a fully operational airfield with the USAF RC135s ( and the RAF RC 135s from No 51 Sq )?

No, they haven’t. Probably because there is nothing to say.

Do you mean there's nothing to say and that's probably why they've said nothing; or do you mean there's probably nothing to say and that's why they've said nothing?

Just wondering if you had inside info or were just speculating.

[Brevet Cable]

[parsley]

I wasn't aware that the future of RAF Fairford was in doubt and it was going to be the 'home' of RIAT. Other USAF/ RAF bases have been closed in the past but RAF Fairford has always survived...

Or is the issue with the RC135s that will move in, making RAF Fairford like RAF Waddington as an intelligence base that no public are allowed on?

RAF Fairford is a superb airfield for RIAT and we are very lucky to have a show like RIAT in the UK - many thanks to all at DBH that have made RIAT what it is today.

However since RAFCTE don't actually 'own' RAF Fairford can RIAT stay there once the RC135s move in?? Does anyone know what agreement RAFCTE have with RAF Fairford and how long it lasts?

If as mentioned above RIAT is at RAF Fairford until 2022... then where after that?? No other airfield can accommodate the show size of RIAT. However, last week the MOD did announce that RAF Scampton would be closing in 2010 and sold. Could RAFCTE 'buy' RAF Scampton and spend 2 years sorting out the taxiways/ runway/ creating more static areas and create a permanent home for RIAT if RAF Fairford cannot accommodate the show in the future???? DBH could move to the new RAFCTE Scampton also. They could set it up as a IWM Duxford set up with a museum on site all year round and still allow the Reds to practise over the site and have other events and shows during the rest of the year, they could also invite the SBAC to move the Farnborough show to this new purpose built airshow venue if there are issues with the built up area surrounding Farnborough and aircraft cannot display there in the future...

Just a thought

Boss...just as an example East Midlands had their runway resurfaced in 2016 ...now obviously it has to be resurfaced to a high standard because it is in daily use (a standard Scampton might not need in your plan) but that alone cost £15 million