The future of RIAT

[DonaldGrump]

I do however agree with those calling DBH out on the admission costs. Yes it may well present reasonable value for money for an adult with kids whose admission is free.

For the lone adult or one with Mrs or older child it is a hell of an expensive trip. £110 for me and my 21yr old, sorry you are taking the p155 DBH. This year was i think my 29th Tattoo, I have been there as a paying customer including FRIAT I have been in FOC as a voiunteer with a participant. It is an event I look forward to every year and have only missed a few since my first at Greenham in 1979, Havent missed one this century!

Still we still had a fantastic time from the outside and got some marvellous views not rivalled inside so all is not lost. It is however a shame that RIAT is now simply too expensive for many long time attendees who are effectively no longer needed.

I’m sorry, you have a valid opinion on the ticket price, but I really can’t accept that DBH is ‘greedy’. They are in it to make money for the RAF Charitable Trust. RIAT is the main income stream for the charity. What was it, £1.2m gifted to the Trust for 2017?

Here’s what some of the money is spent on....

https://www.airtattoo.com/the-trust/how-the-money-is-spent/grants-2016-17

if it was a fully commercial enterprise, aiming to make a profit for owners/shareholders, then you may have a point. Even then, I think it’s great value for what it gives you.

Yes but if you haven't got it - but have a long history of supporting RIAT as an event and by extension (and probably consciously) supporting DBH's charitable work - and as a result of even mildly excessive pricing that supportive relationship that could have gone on for a lifetime has to be put on hold or even ends, its not just the disappointed punter that loses out, its also DBH, in the long term. Even a customer-supplier relationship needs a bit of nurturing. I'm sure that is always kept in mind when setting the next year's prices....

I think trying to explain the concept of not having it is beyond the understanding of many on here, fair to say I suspect most on here have a few quid. In which case I dont doubt that RIAT represents good value for money. However there are many who have supported this show almost fanatically for years are simply now being priced out. Probably those who dont go armed with thousands of pounds of cameras. People who have just gone to watch the aircraft, enjoy the atmosphere and see friends they see once a year.

It is inevitable that those who can spend £50 whenever they feel the urge and those who might need £50 to keep food in their belly for 2 weeks may hold polar opposite views as to what is value for money.

[Gonzo230]

On the other hand, just because the prices are high (too high) for some people, doesn’t mean that RAFCTE are greedy.

I can certainly understand that the cost of attending RIAT is too much for some.

People who have just gone to watch the aircraft, enjoy the atmosphere and see friends they see once a year.

That’s exactly the reason I go. You could always try volunteering!

[speedbird2639]

Depends.....subjectively, both Cosford & Yeovilton could be said to be better than RIAT.

Cosford was good this year, one of the best for years but 'better than RIAT'? Have you been on the home brew, Brevet?

*obvious troll is obvious etc etc

[DonaldGrump]

On the other hand, just because the prices are high (too high) for some people, doesn’t mean that RAFCTE are greedy.

I can certainly understand that the cost of attending RIAT is too much for some.

People who have just gone to watch the aircraft, enjoy the atmosphere and see friends they see once a year.

That’s exactly the reason I go. You could always try volunteering!

I cannot fault the suggestion of volunteering, and will go further in saying that anyone who has yet to become involved as a volunteer in something aviation should give it a bash. You dont know what you are missing. I have myself done so, indeed was a volunteer at the Kemble shows as well as a couple of aircraft that have graced the circuit.

Sadly for me now it is probably not an option as I have a health condition that has deteriorated beyond the point of me being of any great use. Ironically volunteering for RIAT was something I always intended to do and I am reluctantly accepting that it amongst a few other things will remain missed off my aviation bucket list. However if they do need anyone who can drive and generally talk aircraft and all kinds of other nonsense for a few hours a day then I am all theirs in 2019.....

The reality is that regardless of how many years I have spent several days at this show DBH have no interest whatsoever in me as I cannot justify or afford to pay the considerable amount of money it would now cost me to attend just one let alone 3/4/5 days as I have habitually done over the years. Its not the end of the world but I am a bit miffed that RIAT has followed so many other events in becoming something only those with deep pockets are able to attend or indeed are truly welcome to attend.

[Brevet Cable]

Depends.....subjectively, both Cosford & Yeovilton could be said to be better than RIAT.

Cosford was good this year, one of the best for years but 'better than RIAT'? Have you been on the home brew, Brevet?

*obvious troll is obvious etc etc

Nope, I'm just looking at it from a Joe Pub viewpoint as opposed to a spotter's one.

[harkins]

The reality is that regardless of how many years I have spent several days at this show DBH have no interest whatsoever in me as I cannot justify or afford to pay the considerable amount of money it would now cost me to attend just one let alone 3/4/5 days as I have habitually done over the years. Its not the end of the world but I am a bit miffed that RIAT has followed so many other events in becoming something only those with deep pockets are able to attend or indeed are truly welcome to attend.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative and I sympathise with your financial and health states but, my question is; if £50 is too much, what is the right price?

I'm just wondering if £50 is too much, is £30 sufficiently less that it is no longer a financial burden? For one day a year, for an event that many hold so dear and as the highlight of their year, I'm not sure that £20 is so significant. Surely if someone can't save an extra £20 in 52 weeks, buying an airshow ticket is the least of their worries?

And if the cost was slashed from £50 to £25 pound, for the benefit of a few that want to go but simply cannot afford the extra £25 pound, the charities and presumably the participant list would take quite a hit.

[Brevet Cable]

Do you really think 99% of those who attend RIAT do so because of the charity it supports, though?

And if they did cut the cost of tickets, maybe the RAFCTE could counter the potential loss of revenue by being more discerning when it comes to deciding which 'beneficiaries' the money goes to.

[jingernut]

For the lone adult or one with Mrs or older child it is a hell of an expensive trip. £110 for me and my 21yr old, sorry you are taking the p155 DBH. This year was i think my 29th Tattoo, I have been there as a paying customer including FRIAT I have been in FOC as a voiunteer with a participant. It is an event I look forward to every year and have only missed a few since my first at Greenham in 1979, Havent missed one this century!

You know it's on every year, you go every year. Why not just put money aside each month towards the ticket? You managed to afford the camping which as far as I know isn't that cheap either.

And... just because you can't afford it doesn't mean they are taking the mick. There are many things I would like but can't afford. It's the way of life.

[MiG_Eater]

Indeed, I have to say - it's a pound a week. If that's genuinely impossible, my heart breaks for you; but I just can't believe it is!

[harkins]

Do you really think 99% of those who attend RIAT do so because of the charity it supports, though?

And if they did cut the cost of tickets, maybe the RAFCTE could counter the potential loss of revenue by being more discerning when it comes to deciding which 'beneficiaries' the money goes to.

No I don't think that. I would still go if they weren't giving a single penny to charity - I go to see military aircraft at close quarters. In fact, I'd be happy to pay a bit more if they spent it all on Viggens, Starfighters and Harriers and gave nothing to charity. But the fact is that it does support a charity and it seems to be very important to the organisers. So they will not slash costs and charity payments to make the gate price affordable to everyone. The biggest cost of attending RIAT for many people is the cost of petrol and also for those who travel the furthest a night in a hotel. So should DBH lobby the government to cut fuel tax or subsidies peoples travel and accommodation costs? How about they take RIAT on the road and hold it at different airfields around the country? I'd be delighted not to spend a week three hours from home and living in a Gloucestershire motel.

Despite appearances, I am not trying to be argumentative, I'm just saying that in the great scheme of things, £50 for an adult to spend a day at the worlds largest airshow isn't really unreasonable and certainly isn't disproportionate. I wonder how many that can't afford £50 a year spend £104 a year on lottery tickets?

[Dan213]

Depends.....subjectively, both Cosford & Yeovilton could be said to be better than RIAT.

Cosford was good this year, one of the best for years but 'better than RIAT'? Have you been on the home brew, Brevet?

*obvious troll is obvious etc etc

Nope, I'm just looking at it from a Joe Pub viewpoint as opposed to a spotter's one.

A target market of which is catered for far better by the likes of RIAT than either of the others... If you were posing this statement as a spotter then I’d be inclined to say that you have a point but RIAT is far more orientated to being a family day out than any other show in the UK

[vbombers2]

Looks like this debate has been going on for a while!

http://www.air-shows.org.uk/2007/12/riat-air-show-tickets-the-debate-continues/

[play it cool]

Sadly for me now it is probably not an option as I have a health condition that has deteriorated beyond the point of me being of any great use.

If you are registered disabled then your son could get a free carers ticket.

Overall though, this hobby of ours can be relatively (or even very) cheap - often just transport costs. I hate to say it but if you can no longer afford a RIAT ticket, it doesn’t necessarily follow that the cost of the ticket doesn’t represent good value for money.

[G67]

Value for money.

On another forum I saw someone multiplying the duration of a show by minimum wage which seemed an interesting way to approach it.

So 12 hours x £7.83 = £93.96 minimum wage equivalent

That does suggest that a day at RIAT isn't currently overpriced unless you're attending for fewer than ( £55 / £7.83 ) seven hours.

Of course that's just the ticket price, you have to add transport, food and possibly accommodation.

[Wissam24]

I love RIAT. For all my complaints about this year, aimed almost entirely at the RAF than the show, I had a great week out with mates, saw some dope planes and nearly deafened myself. It's probably the best show in the world (tm Carlsberg), and I can't imagine or countenance not going every year.

Having said that, I'm considering not going for the full week next year. Maybe I'm just a little fatigued, maybe I just need a break to really appreciate it again, maybe the extra day this year really did burn me out. But I might just do the show days and put the money I save toward going back to Russia for MAKS instead, something I've been craving all year.

[capercaillie]

I saw some dope planes

That would be the Be2c presumably?

[Skyflash]

I love RIAT. For all my complaints about this year, aimed almost entirely at the RAF than the show, I had a great week out with mates, saw some dope planes and nearly deafened myself. It's probably the best show in the world (tm Carlsberg), and I can't imagine or countenance not going every year.

Having said that, I'm considering not going for the full week next year. Maybe I'm just a little fatigued, maybe I just need a break to really appreciate it again, maybe the extra day this year really did burn me out. But I might just do the show days and put the money I save toward going back to Russia for MAKS instead, something I've been craving all year.

I hear you, chief.

For years now I have been alternating between Machs 2 and 3; 2 in an odd year, 3 in an even (when the participation tends to be slightly better owing to the tie-up with Farnborough). This approach has served me well and has allowed me to do other things in odd years.

I don't think I'd ever drop down to just the show days for the simple reason that I enjoy the Monday far too much!

[Wissam24]

To be fair I'd probably do the Monday as well, but even that this year was kind of uninspiring. The instructions to be as bog-standard as possible do detract from the day somewhat...

[harkins]

Nothing to do with the future but, Monday is always my least favourite day for the reason that Sam just mentioned and because it's the realisation that the week is ending. The arrivals days are the highlight for me. The anticipation for the weekend, seeing everything fly, the practices and validations, the slightly more chilled vibe around (although the increasing numbers attending is slightly changing that).

[DerekGM6]

Interesting discussion about costs and value for money.

My take is this: An 8.5 hour non-stop airshow on every one of three days, plus two miles of static to savour, stalls, various entertainments including some non-aviation exhibits, plus opportunities to view arrivals and departures on bookend days, is fantastic value for money. And for the most part we are talking state-of-the-art military hardware which costs a small fortune to fly for even fifteen minutes. Oh and by the way, parking is free -at many big events it is extra!

I've heard that Oshkosh is about the biggest airshow in the USA -and the world -in terms of numbers of aircraft attending, so being curious to find out more last night I checked out the 2018 website. It lasts a week, 10,000 aircraft movements in and out (!), lots going on, not just flying. All sorts of workshops, technology displays, lectures, stalls, music. etc etc Basically it's a gigantic love-in for light aircraft enthusiasts with a lot of 1940s/50/60s warbirds and some big aircraft on display. But then I checked the actual flying display for each day. My, what a disappointment. Yes, some interesting highlights but if you are looking for non-stop display of exciting aircraft then it doesn't even come close to RIAT. As I implied, I've never been to Oshkosh and if I lived in the USA I'd love to go for the whole week, but it's clearly a totally different sort of show compared to RIAT, which in my view is without peer.

[ikarus]

Value for money - RIAT , divide the cost of the days ticket by the number of aircraft attending that you have the potential to
see/photograph given your preference = peanuts .

For those that don't live local and have to travel (like me) , find accommodation ( 4 nights) / petrol /spends etc ,
add that on as well and do the same maths. The cost per aircraft to get up close to the likes of the
Kawasaki C2 , AN2 , SU27 , RC135 , KC390 etc is still an absolute bargain. Given that otherwise to see some of the
aircraft and operators you would have to travel abroad and a huge distance under other circumstances. How else can you
see aircraft from 30 countries in one day.

The only other air shows I bother with are a couple of Fly-Ins due to work constraints - gave Farnborough a miss this year
given the line up

Happy to give the RAF Charitable Trust my money- Will I/We be back next year - you can count on it

[vulcan558]

On the other hand, just because the prices are high (too high) for some people, doesn’t mean that RAFCTE are greedy.

I can certainly understand that the cost of attending RIAT is too much for some.

People who have just gone to watch the aircraft, enjoy the atmosphere and see friends they see once a year.

That’s exactly the reason I go. You could always try volunteering!

I cannot fault the suggestion of volunteering, and will go further in saying that anyone who has yet to become involved as a volunteer in something aviation should give it a bash. You dont know what you are missing. I have myself done so, indeed was a volunteer at the Kemble shows as well as a couple of aircraft that have graced the circuit.

Sadly for me now it is probably not an option as I have a health condition that has deteriorated beyond the point of me being of any great use. Ironically volunteering for RIAT was something I always intended to do and I am reluctantly accepting that it amongst a few other things will remain missed off my aviation bucket list. However if they do need anyone who can drive and generally talk aircraft and all kinds of other nonsense for a few hours a day then I am all theirs in 2019.....

The reality is that regardless of how many years I have spent several days at this show DBH have no interest whatsoever in me as I cannot justify or afford to pay the considerable amount of money it would now cost me to attend just one let alone 3/4/5 days as I have habitually done over the years. Its not the end of the world but I am a bit miffed that RIAT has followed so many other events in becoming something only those with deep pockets are able to attend or indeed are truly welcome to attend.

Way the price as shot up, is because they do not have such big numbers attend anymore like they did 10 years ago etc.
They have a limit and thats it, to get more money they have made thevarrivals now an airshow day, this bumps the numbers up to what they have capped on the weekend.
Are the gates set around the 60k mark per day, giving about 120k per weekend, add the friday too this then you are at your 160k target.

Years ago you would get 100k on a saturday trying to get in. This caused issues. So they have spread it out upped the price and capped numbers.

[boff180]

They have a limit and thats it, to get more money they have made thevarrivals now an airshow day.

What is your source for this?

As right now that is a "I think this happened because..." statement.

Statements made at the time that it was to comply with the legislation changes regarding the public (in this case VIPs/FRIAT) having (virtually) unrestricted showground access to the airfield during Friday display practices.

[harkins]

I'll say one thing about the future of RIAT; having seen the photos of the Viggen in Ireland today (and being incredibly envious), if DBH don't start investing some of the profits into paying for aircraft like that (even for static given the UK's insane safety laws) and for a Spanish Harrier (for example) they might start struggling a bit more in the coming years. As we enter the age where it's all F-35 demos and we're desperate to see an F-16 in the static park I think some historic jets will become a necessity to keep the event even slightly varied.

[vulcan558]

They have a limit and thats it, to get more money they have made thevarrivals now an airshow day.

What is your source for this?

As right now that is a "I think this happened because..." statement.

Statements made at the time that it was to comply with the legislation changes regarding the public (in this case VIPs/FRIAT) having (virtually) unrestricted showground access to the airfield during Friday display practices.

When the friat and the increase of vip numbers go through a certain number, does it not get classed as an airshow and insurances and other factors kick in, this makes it more cost effective to open it up friday for the public.
You do not get the queuing on weekends like you used too, with the capp on ticket numbers you are not getting 100k plus hitting the airfield in one go. Its spread out now over 3 days,

F1 grand prix had 160k this year.
About the same as 3 days plus of riat.

Plus i think a lot of space as been taken over too more tented seating areas etc.