Where has XH558 thread gone?

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 6:24 pm

Hence my 'one warning' suggestion......smite a few with the ban-hammer and hopefully the penny will drop.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby CJS on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 6:35 pm

Why bother with a warning? The repeat offenders - the ones who need the ban - know full well what they're doing so why give them the chance to do it once more?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 7:02 pm

Simple....rather than the normal system of warning someone by PM/E-Mail, post the warning on the topic so that everyone can see it ( as happens on some other forums )
Then when they transgress again & get ROP'd, post that on the topic as well, so that other posters know that the person has been banned.
That way, should they return they won't be able to whine about it and everyone else will know that the threat of a ban isn't an idle one.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby CJS on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 7:11 pm

I like your style - name and shame. :-)
Is it possible to block members from contributing to individual threads? That'd be another way around it.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Alanko on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 7:29 pm

There is an interesting photo here: https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20729051_1509415012453712_5219521406047350011_o.jpg?oh=027af0ea657f6650f6e2b64422006f0b&oe=5A2A1D1D

Unfortunately Facebook have buried the urls to directly link to their photographs, so this is the next best thing.

WK163 is now braving the elements outside.
Alanko

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby boff180 on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 7:45 pm

CJS wrote:The childish behaviour of several members on the previous 558 thread - including some who should jolly well know better - made it almost impossible to sift the nonsense from the actual discussion about the aircraft, let alone moderate it!


The last straw being certain individuals publically challenging moderator decisions and arrogantly telling us what to do. That will never be tolerated.

As Dan has said, we will have an internal chat over the future of '558 discussions on this forum, and take things from there.

Andy
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 8:47 pm

boff180 wrote:
CJS wrote:The childish behaviour of several members on the previous 558 thread - including some who should jolly well know better - made it almost impossible to sift the nonsense from the actual discussion about the aircraft, let alone moderate it!


The last straw being certain individuals publically challenging moderator decisions and arrogantly telling us what to do. That will never be tolerated.

As Dan has said, we will have an internal chat over the future of '558 discussions on this forum, and take things from there.

Andy


Do you really think so Andy? Perhaps I have missed bits but am not sure I saw anyone trying to dictate to the moderators. I really havent seen anything I would take as arrogant bar those who demand the threads be closed because they dont happen to like it?

Is the view of the moderators favouring an utterly sanitised forum or one where lively discussion is welcomed? If the former then surely one of the boards favourite sons would have to be banned forthwith...Dano? I dont agree with alot of what Dano says but he is happy to dish it out and to take it. For that I would shake his hand and argue the toss with him over a beer anytime.

Just my opinion not telling the mods or anyone else what to do, just offering a humble opinion.
Last edited by DonaldGrump on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DonaldGrump

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby steveb23 on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 8:50 pm

boff180 wrote:
The last straw being certain individuals publically challenging moderator decisions and arrogantly telling us what to do. That will never be tolerated.

As Dan has said, we will have an internal chat over the future of '558 discussions on this forum, and take things from there.

Andy


Please just ban these people.

XH558 will always be an emotive subject amongst aviation enthusiasts which I'm sure stokes strong views. However, I fully contend that as a community UKAR has been a force for good which ever way you look at it:

1) Challenging VTTS, without blind acceptance of their situation normal.
2) I believe Dan's excellent podcast asked some important questions which were useful to dissenters (like me) but also directly resulted in VTTS raising far more money for their latest appeal.

Whichever way you look at it, the future of XH558 is important, and the community of UKAR is also important with a role to play in asking the tough questions.

But please, just ban the trolls.

Steve
steveb23

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 9:08 pm

steveb23 wrote:
boff180 wrote:
The last straw being certain individuals publically challenging moderator decisions and arrogantly telling us what to do. That will never be tolerated.

As Dan has said, we will have an internal chat over the future of '558 discussions on this forum, and take things from there.

Andy


Please just ban these people.

XH558 will always be an emotive subject amongst aviation enthusiasts which I'm sure stokes strong views. However, I fully contend that as a community UKAR has been a force for good which ever way you look at it:

1) Challenging VTTS, without blind acceptance of their situation normal.
2) I believe Dan's excellent podcast asked some important questions which were useful to dissenters (like me) but also directly resulted in VTTS raising far more money for their latest appeal.

Whichever way you look at it, the future of XH558 is important, and the community of UKAR is also important with a role to play in asking the tough questions.

But please, just ban the trolls.

Steve



With respect Steve those who are not dissenters would probably see you as a troll, and me of course. So who are the trolls?
DonaldGrump

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Irishaernut on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 9:42 pm

Well I think it was school yard arguing with the same old crap coming up.

And it will help Dan and other Vulcan fans blood pressure infinitely.
Especially as they won't have to keep getting angry over a flying/non Flying V bomber .

Steve
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 10:49 pm

DonaldGrump wrote: Perhaps I have missed bits but am not sure I saw anyone trying to dictate to the moderators.
See the other XH558 thread : http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78545
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 12:14 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote: Perhaps I have missed bits but am not sure I saw anyone trying to dictate to the moderators.
See the other XH558 thread : http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=78545


You must refer to n12345 or whatever it is? Granted his posts re the absolutely not happening Scampton Airshow were arrogant. To be fair to the bloke he injected much comedy into the proceedings when the non happening airshow magically appeared and still tried to claim he was right. On this occasion I make him mostly right, or at least his comments would not offend me if I were a mod or forum owner. He would however have received a volley back in answer to the time of the month crack, I really would see that as no more than banter.

I think you have said you were a trust/club volunteer, in which case you cannot tell me you have not had to field much worse....because I know differently.
We are all different I guess but it does strike me that people get just a tad over sensitive on here these days, as has been said recently by Dan O it used to be a bit of a bear pit on here. Lots of forthright exchanges and lots of fun....

At the end of the day we are all different and I certainly would not tell the big cheese or the mods how to run their board but will offer a different perspective if I feel its worth consideration.
DonaldGrump

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 1:23 am

Alanko wrote:There is an interesting photo here: https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20729051_1509415012453712_5219521406047350011_o.jpg?oh=027af0ea657f6650f6e2b64422006f0b&oe=5A2A1D1D

Unfortunately Facebook have buried the urls to directly link to their photographs, so this is the next best thing.

WK163 is now braving the elements outside.


That picture of 163 dumped outside is exactly why those involved in VTTS must be chased out of vintage aviation for good. To take on an historic airframe, without public consultation, using funds donated in good faith for XH558's upkeep, when secure long-term hangarage was uncertain and with no obvious public financial support or interest, must be one of the greatest outrages in vintage aviation in many, many years. Done purely to prolong the gravy train.

XH558 can, and will rot. WK163 could have flown again, in the right hands, with the right buyer. To doom that machine to the elements is frankly an obscenity.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 3:41 am

DonaldGrump wrote:...or at least his comments would not offend me if I were a mod or forum owner. He would however have received a volley back in answer to the time of the month crack, I really would see that as no more than banter.

Depends what was actually posted.
The thread was there when I left work at 06:30 and gone when I woke up at midday, so I've no idea what was posted altogether which led Dan to delete it.
Given the amount of handbaging and abuse which had gone on the previous day, goading him ( even if it was in jest ) probably wasn't a good idea.

I think you have said you were a trust/club volunteer, in which case you cannot tell me you have not had to field much worse[/quote]
I was a VTTS Club member, never a volunteer & definitely nothing to do with the Trust ( I'm one of those who stumped up silly amounts of dosh over the years for the various appeals )

Abuse and a 'bear pit' ? This forum is full of fluffy cuddly pussy-cats compared to some.....heck, Mumsnet is more vicious ! :lol:
If you want a real bear pit you should try ARRSE, which is definitely not for your sensitive wallflowers. It's the only forum I've been on where the moderators will give you a ban "because I was bored", "because I haven't banned anyone for a while", " I was checking the 'ban button' still worked" or "because I knew it would wind you up" :biggrin:
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 4:01 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:To take on an historic airframe, without public consultation, using funds donated in good faith for XH558's upkeep

From what I recall, they did publicise the fact that they were looking to take on another airframe - or was it airframes ? - they just never said what.
Didn't they also say that the money they used to purchase '163 didn't come from donations made for XH558's upkeep ?
Think both these points were in the newsletters.

One thing that seems to have been forgotten on here is the 'Build a plane Project' they were doing ( https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/gOC4_KKPoCEh00Qw-pRC2zzoScgKivlAoha41hTp7LQ ...... was that ever completed ??
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby bernarde on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 6:58 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:To take on an historic airframe, without public consultation, using funds donated in good faith for XH558's upkeep

From what I recall, they did publicise the fact that they were looking to take on another airframe - or was it airframes ? - they just never said what.
Didn't they also say that the money they used to purchase '163 didn't come from donations made for XH558's upkeep ?
Think both these points were in the newsletters.

One thing that seems to have been forgotten on here is the 'Build a plane Project' they were doing ( https://mxm.mxmfb.com/rsps/m/gOC4_KKPoCEh00Qw-pRC2zzoScgKivlAoha41hTp7LQ ...... was that ever completed ??


No, its been terminated as they got rid of Sam.
bernarde

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby boff180 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 9:51 am

Brevet Cable wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote:...or at least his comments would not offend me if I were a mod or forum owner. He would however have received a volley back in answer to the time of the month crack, I really would see that as no more than banter.

Depends what was actually posted.


Without quoting and naming names...

Mods threatened to lock the thread and end all conversation because of being sick of moderating the constant squabbling in an effort to get people to calm down a little.

The immediate arrogant reply told the moderator that they will not lock the thread among other things.
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Private Custard on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 10:13 am

boff180 wrote:
The last straw being certain individuals publically challenging moderator decisions and arrogantly telling us what to do. That will never be tolerated.



Oh, like......

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Goading the bloke who runs the board. That should guarantee a ban for you.


Or is your guest writer immune nowadays?
Private Custard

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby DonaldGrump on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 10:23 am

boff180 wrote:
Brevet Cable wrote:
DonaldGrump wrote:...or at least his comments would not offend me if I were a mod or forum owner. He would however have received a volley back in answer to the time of the month crack, I really would see that as no more than banter.

Depends what was actually posted.


Without quoting and naming names...

Mods threatened to lock the thread and end all conversation because of being sick of moderating the constant squabbling in an effort to get people to calm down a little.

The immediate arrogant reply told the moderator that they will not lock the thread among other things.


I dont think I saw that in all honesty, but if it was in effect telling a moderator to get stuffed or along those lines .....out of order.

Then surely the moderator would be fully entitled to pm the offending poster and put him firmly in his place? Disputes and arguments even heated ones are part and parcel of daily life, I would personally leave them to get on with it providing obscene language or anything that could see the forum owners in court were not present.

As I said previously nobody is forced to read or contribute to any given thread so the sensitive soles can steer clear?
DonaldGrump

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Reds Rolling on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 10:44 am

Here's a suggestion. IF the moderators decide not to permanently remove the 558 bitch fest thread, then how about putting it in it's own sub-forum, and then making that sub-forum only viewable to logged in users?

Seems like a good compromise; the thread gets to roll on, but is out of general aviation waffle and UKAR doesn't suffer the embarrassment of the whole world and his dog being able to view it! :grin:
Reds Rolling

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Binbrook 01 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 11:30 am

Frankly its a doomed project and those of us that have been on this rock for 40 something years can likely sit back and say I told you so... And I frankly no longer care for any further opinions on that statement :ninja:

I pity the mods on here for putting up with the baloney that some have come up with. If you think whats been said about the Vulcan on here is often daft, try reading certain groups regarding historic, and even serving aircraft on Facebook..... And they are worse!

Essentially some of the old school at certain airfields have hit the nail on the head, as per what this hobby seems to have come too now.... :sick: :tumbleweed:

I :surrender: ....... :wall:
Binbrook 01

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Xm657 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 11:41 am

Why would the forum be embarrassed by it, it's their biggest thread with millions of Google hits? Its embarassing to VttST of course, but they are bring criticised all over the internet and social media not just here. Only issue I can see for the forum is if someone makes a defamatory remark which puts the forum in a tricky situation or they don't want a frosty relationship with VttST for carrying the thread. It's surely more embarrassing to prevent free speech I would say.

However, as there is really nothing new to discuss on the matter I would advocate shutting 558 threads down for now (even just to save the moderators' time). It is going round in circles and nobody knows what will happen next. When someone has some actual news (as I reported her going outside at the beginning of June) then there can be a new thread. I don't expect anything to happen in the saga for a while. If planning permission for the new hangar is granted or building starts someone should report it then. Until that point it's just a soap opera that we've become too addicted to discussing.
Xm657

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 12:40 pm

bernarde wrote:No, its been terminated as they got rid of Sam.

Just had a read on the VTTS forum--according to Sam, Edmondson is now the 'registered builder' & the aircraft ( uncompleted ) is in storage....so possibly only postponed ( until someone else take it on ) rather than binned completely ?
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Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby bernarde on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 6:45 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:
bernarde wrote:No, its been terminated as they got rid of Sam.

Just had a read on the VTTS forum--according to Sam, Edmondson is now the 'registered builder' & the aircraft ( uncompleted ) is in storage....so possibly only postponed ( until someone else take it on ) rather than binned completely ?


Andrew doesnt have the skill or knowledge to continue it, as Sam said in the thread you refer to, nothing will happen with it.
bernarde

Re: Where has XH558 thread gone?

Postby XR219 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 6:54 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:To take on an historic airframe, without public consultation, using funds donated in good faith for XH558's upkeep.....


Dan,

Towards the end if the previous thread I responded to your question on this topic in some detail and explained why these statements were untrue.

If you know that funds donated for the specific purpose of XH558's upkeep were used for WK163, then please report this to the Charity Commission and they will doubtless investigate. Otherwise, grateful if you would withdraw these words as they have been comprehensively addressed. In the unlikely event that you didn't read them (you responded to something else two posts later), then I'm sure the mods could dig my post out for you.

Everything else that you said is of course your opinion and you are entitled to express it.

Cheers
Steve
VTTST trustee
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XR219

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