Typhoon, why can't I get enthusiastic?

[effects]

"I always find it's best when pilots grow a pair and approach each display as an individual display and push the aircraft to the limits. To me, the RAF displays of the past have always "gone by the book" with few exceptions, those being late 80's displays of XH558 and the good old Nimrod displays. Noise, blood and thunder and highly uncharacteristic displays by aircraft of such size used to blow my mind and each show seemed to go as well as the crew felt it ought to on the day. "

Hewy,
when pilots in your words 'grow a pair' they usually end up dead, Tommo and his Lightning are a classic example of deviating from the routine. All display pilots should fly the same practiced routine and a/c are never pushed to the limits during displays nowadays, the DH110 is an example of limits being reached. Those few exceptions of the 80s you refer to were rehearsed and signed off routines not someone jumping in a jet and deciding on the day how to fly the display, if you think otherwise you are badly misinformed, or just plain wrong.

[st24]

If you took time to read my wee bit properly I think you'll find my tongue was firmly placed in my cheek regarding the 2005 Typhoon incident and the pilot's backside to floor proximity for as I said, I have no problem with the current Typhoon display.

It’s a tad difficult to read any emotion in anything written – I don’t know you as a poster on here and so have no idea what you had your tongue stuck in. Most on here know that with st24 you get what’s written on the tin, that’s what makes me one of the most popular and respected members of UKAR.

I find your use of witnessing a crash in order to achieve some sort of merit within your point to be at the very least crass. I too have witnessed a airshow crashes, namely the Vintage Pair at Mildenhall as a kid in 86 (2 years before Ramstein) and it nearly put me off airshows for good and then the fulcrums at Fairford 93. Neither of which were a result of pilots going too far. The Vintage Pair incident floored me as a year before at Teesside Airshow I had a chance to meet the pilots and a guided tour around the aircraft. That incident occurred when they were seemingly flying by calmly.
I also witnessed the Fulcrum crashes at Fairford. And although the less tragic yet equally scary at the time Fulcrum crash occurred during a more complex move it was still a procedure practised and displayed many times before.

So I mention 2 crashes that actually underline the nonsense of what you were saying and then you go and list a whole series of more that don’t…??

Also less than a year before the horrific incident in Toronto I had the honour of flying twice with the crew of XV239, once to the arctic and back and once around the North Sea oil fields whilst on annual camp at nearby Lossiemouth. The greatest flights of my life, and I have had a few worth telling the grand kids about.

I too have spent a happy hour or two on Nimrods, but again I used that incident as you specifically said that ‘rod pilots had “seemed to go as well as the crew felt it ought to on the day.”

As for that crash, and the Mig crash and every crash since Ramstein yet to come I think you can agree that thankfully the air display community has gone out of its way to increase and maintain overall safety for all involved especially the public. What this has resulted in however is less opportunity to really see aircraft put through their paces properly and displaying to their full potential, apart from as mentioned before test aircraft at the hands of experienced test pilots.

I don’t get this – there are still some very flamboyant, brilliantly flown routines out there that are flown perfectly well within the safety parameters. When things are pushed, or done differently to “suit the day”, things go wrong.

As for XH558, well as you know she's still around like the missing Thunderbird vehicle and in the 80's she was displayed differently often enough, the odd extra touch and go and zoom climb here and another "why not" of a wing-over there.

Really? I don’t think so.

My point was, and is that there always has been and always will be the chance of a crash at an airshow, it's something we as enthusiasts and they as display pilots are more than aware of and live with and I think safe doesn't necessarily have to mean boring... Ask Anatoly Kvochur, anything he had strapped to him had it's neck wrung and he still walks the earth.

He certainly does though he’s walked away from a burning hole in the ground or two yet his test pilots solo was pure aerial poetry in motion, all displayed perfectly well within European display parameters. Brilliant, exciting, yet safe.

[cazwhitehouse]

I too watched the awesome typhoon display at Raf Odiham yesterday...the best I have ever seen. The pilot seemed to be having a whale of a time and the display got to the point where it was so bloody 'intense' you almost felt the need to say 'Ok...time to stop now, stay safe and bring her down'. Only those lucky people who witnessed the display will get what I mean!!

[tankbuster81]

Well,i started this thread,and although i stick by the majority of what I've said,i saw the 2012 display at Folkestone today,and it was the best I've seen too date.aggressive and more daring than previous years displays.

[Hewy]

Please let's not get into the whole thing of 'I've seen more crashes than you'. This being an enthusiast site means that it is likely most of us have had, at one time or another, that very tragic experience.

Here, here Top Gun. My point in this case was of the crass nature in which witnessing a crash was used, as if seeing a crash deemed the point being made more valid. We don't know who reads and contributes to this forum and how opinions may effect people in a negative way.

I'll state this once again. I love the Typhoon routine, the one people are harping on about for being boring. Even though it is very precise, it's still a joy. No-one has picked up on the point I made though as to whether they are holding back on showing the aircraft's full capabilities as happened at F-15 displays in the 80's / 90's. And the poor Tutor display people on here bemoan, if you ask me the 2010 Tutor display was one of the most enjoyable I've seen, at each show he really did push the envelope of the planes capabilities. Albeit due to it's size it seemed to too far away at times, but for skill... 12/10 if you ask me.

Also, it is very much the case that not all routines even by our own fine air force where adhered too in the past and not all with dire consequences. Seemingly in fact the extra effort and flair is very much notable when it occurs if you've witnessed the same displays by the same pilot's just going by the book.

Anyway peeps, let's kiss and make up and look forward to a splendid safe and hopefully weather permitting fully packed season. Anyone for PIMMS at Shuttleworth?