Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

[richw_82]

Hi guys, I've not checked in here for a while, so thought it was about time I updated things.

The return to flight work is still progressing.

Following the decision to try to return WR963 to flight back in 2012, two things asked of us by the CAA were a complete audit of all lifed components on the aircraft, and an assessment covering pre and post spar boom replacement and how it would change things for WR963. This was difficult to accomplish as there were large gaps in our records, then we had a surprising breakthrough in the form of some legacy documentation from our friends at Gatwick Aviation Museum. One of WR963's old MOD Form 700, covering her life from her conversion to AEW2 to near the end, and, almost to top that, fatigue meter readings for the entire period. It also allowed us to pin down an exact life remaining on the spar - WR963 has 594 hours left on her lower spar booms.

The Shackleton has an issue with its top spar booms though; in that some of the bolt holes drilled into it for the spar web, and wing skins very nearly intersect. The proximity varies between 1/16 inch to 1/4 inch, but each aircraft is different, and each of the last six serving AEW2 had their own spar drawings, along with a document highlighting the position, proximity and allowable tolerance if any cracking is found. The presence and severity of any cracking is what dictates the life of the boom. As you can probably guess, we're keeping our fingers crossed, as if the top booms are okay, we stand a better chance of seeing WR963 use up the remaining flying hours she has.

Part of the work required involves hunting through the mass of drawings we have for drawing no's F13634, F13217, F13639 and this iis proving quite a task. These particular drawings show the location of the intersecting bolt holes in the spar booms and are specific only to one aircraft out of 185 - WR963! The drawings are needed in order to be able to carry out the SI's and STI's in a manner in which we can get results to show the true condition of the top booms. Fortunately the SI's and STI's are all contained within one folder, so I don't have to go hunting for those..

Now for more good news... we had a meeting recently with a top notch company willing to give A8-20 E4/M5 support to the Shackleton so things have just taken another big step forward. We will be upping our fundraising efforts as a result, to include making a HLF application in the near future. We may have mentioned it before, but we really need your help to see WR963 fly again now more than ever! If you haven't already donated we encourage you to do so, as every little helps get a Shackleton closer to flight.

Regards,

Rich

www.avroshackleton.co.uk

[Wissam24]

That's very interesting and encouraging to hear. Couple of things:

You might want to make an actual Facebook "page" for the Shackleton rather than having it as a person account. Much more accessible that way.

Secondly, what are the fundraising targets and requirements up to and following airworthiness certification (which I concede is a way off yet)?

[richw_82]

You mean something like this?

https://www.facebook.com/ShackletonReturnToFlight

This was set up purely to follow the return to flight, the other is a general interest page with WR963 taking most of the spotlight, as there's not that much news on Shackletons the world over. The aircraft that are in museums are generally well cared for and in stable condition; with only SAAF1722, WR974 and WR982 at Gatwick, and WR963 that are active in any major way. The page has been left to tick over while we get everything in place and ready on the funding side and engineering side - even finding a company willing to help with a project this size has been difficult.

Fundraising targets are being worked on. At the moment its just a polite request to donate if you can afford to, and want to - I doubt we're going to raise hundreds of thousands of pounds overnight, but a trickle of income from donations will help prop up what we've already raised.

There's quite a lot to work out in terms of cost in man hours for a Major servicing, component overhauls, CAA fees, hangar space, insurance and more. We don't want to give an unrealistic low figure out of thin air, but neither do we think it should reach dizzy heights of the original estimate of £3 - 5 million (which was quoted to us when we were looking at a spar change). Once on a Permit To Fly, operating costs look to be very close to that of a DC6 - though how close will prove interesting as no-one's operated a Shackleton in the UK before.

Sorry I can't be more specific as yet.

Regards,

Rich

[Wissam24]

Ah right, I didn't see that - I went to the one linked to on your website.

Ok, thanks for the information.

[hunterxf382]

I'm surprised no-one has already mentioned what happened yesterday (Saturday 27th September) at Coventry?

WR963 not only completed one of her scheduled ground runs which was a fantastic experience to be onboard in it's own right, but later in the afternoon everything slotted into place and it's first taxy since 2008 was accomplished in the capable hands of Jon Corley shortly after he returned to CVT in the Venom from Bristol!!!!!
There were some technical gremlins which prevented more than a short trip around the apron, but it was an historic day for the Shackleton Preservation Trust team after much hard work in recent years.....
First time taxying in the current colours too - so feast your eyes on one of the few videos already on Youtube (my own is in the edit process)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6v-1egjW-o[/youtube]

[Pat Murphy]

Great to see her move under her own steam once more. Does anyone know what the state of play is with her spar? Is it OK or a costly rebuild?

[hunterxf382]

The team are planning an NDT inspection over the winter months to satisfy the CAA that the 594 flying hours left on it are good to go! For mre updates you can check progress either via the official website: http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk/
or if you use facebook then see here: http://www.facebook.com/ShackletonReturnToFlight

[st24]

I'm surprised no-one has already mentioned what happened yesterday (Saturday 27th September) at Coventry?

"Tell them and they shall come"... If we had known I'm sure many of us would have been there for this, a fabulous event.

In other Shackleton news it appears MR3 WR974 from Gatwick is moving to Bruntingthorpe!! Now having a growler roaring down Brunty's runway was well as '963 at Cov is an incredible prospect!...

[capercaillie]

A moving MR3, I like the sound of that especially after the sad demise of the SAAF one in 1994 robbed us of a flying one.

[st24]

especially after the sad demise of the SAAF one in 1994 robbed us of a flying one.

20 years?!?! Still hurts....

[Vigorous Dragon]

Ah Shack attack! love it.

Is WR963 available to view by the public on normal days at Coventry AM? I've never been but was planning to go up there soonish anyway. Obviously if there were any more engine runs or anything planned I'd try and time my visit to coincide(!), but just to go up and see it would be worth the trip anyway.

Thanks,

[hunterxf382]

"Tell them and they shall come"... If we had known I'm sure many of us would have been there for this, a fabulous event.

It wasn't planned at all - the ground run was though and well advertised on their own sites. It was the news that Jon Corley was due back in the Venom at 4pm that gave reason for the team to make a call to see if he would be willing, followed by some frantic preparations to get the old girl out on the tarmac. Word spread as quick as it could given the very short notice.

[Kip Casper]

I'm surprised no-one has already mentioned what happened yesterday (Saturday 27th September) at Coventry?

"Tell them and they shall come"... If we had known I'm sure many of us would have been there for this, a fabulous event.

In other Shackleton news it appears MR3 WR974 from Gatwick is moving to Bruntingthorpe!! Now having a growler roaring down Brunty's runway was well as '963 at Cov is an incredible prospect!...

It's going to be a gate guard at Bruntingthorpe according to the chaps at the Gatwick museum when I visited recently. No engines in it as they are going to be used as spares for Gatwick's remaining example.

[Wissam24]

Excellent news, that's really encouraging!

[st24]

I'm surprised no-one has already mentioned what happened yesterday (Saturday 27th September) at Coventry?

"Tell them and they shall come"... If we had known I'm sure many of us would have been there for this, a fabulous event.

In other Shackleton news it appears MR3 WR974 from Gatwick is moving to Bruntingthorpe!! Now having a growler roaring down Brunty's runway was well as '963 at Cov is an incredible prospect!...

It's going to be a gate guard at Bruntingthorpe according to the chaps at the Gatwick museum when I visited recently. No engines in it as they are going to be used as spares for Gatwick's remaining example.

Aah, so it's the non-runner, that's a shame, still be good to see another cold war type at Brunty...

[WarbirdTails]

Great to see the Shackleton moving again, remember seeing it run-up years ago at coventry. Would be great to see fly.

Forgive me if its already been mentioned, but assuming the NDT doesn't bring bad news, how much more work is required to get the Shack flying again?

[hunterxf382]

Firstly, here's my little Video of the day's proceedings:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxJ_XfCUcEc[/youtube]

As for any questions needing detailed answers - you're best talking to the team themselves where you can get the facts

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton

http://www.facebook.com/ShackletonReturnToFlight

Website:
http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk

Twitter:
http://twitter.com/WR963

And last but not least - this project would be very grateful of any donations in the pot to take WR963 to the next step
http://www.avroshackleton.co.uk/fundraising

[Seahornet]

...Forgive me if its already been mentioned, but assuming the NDT doesn't bring bad news, how much more work is required to get the Shack flying again?

I'd guess it will be much the same as the work required to get the Vulcan flying again. Being a less complex type there will be less time and expense involved, but I'd still expect a 7-figure sum over 10+ years will be required to get to flightworthy status.

[Brevet Cable]

Given what it's based on , wouldn't it be more akin to the work required to get a Lancaster flying again ??

[Stagger2]

Agreed. That '7 figure sum' should be worst case scenario in the event of a tragic NDT inspection. Would love to see/hear 963 fly again here in the UK. Until the tests are done any figures would be wild guesswork, but middle+ 6 figure sounds a better proposal. Once airborne again, the public/events organiser's appetite can be evaluated with regard to committing to re-sparring? Avro Shackleton trailing around behind an Avro Lancaster, who's going to get out of bed for that??
With judicious use of the 594 flying hours that other great Avro product will have sadly completed her last encore & the "Spirit of..." can become 'Spirit 2-Return of the Growler'? and with luck + second-hand begging bowls become the new beneficiary of the great British Public's affection. (sorry, money).

[richw_82]

Hi all,

Its going to be 7 figures and a hell of a lot longer before our Shackleton flies if the NDT shows the spar booms to have cracked or corroded beyond use. Feasibility studies put it at around £5million if we had to include a respar into the equation, as there's no new spar boom material kicking around (its obsolete), and the dies for the extrusion no longer exist. We do have the drawings for both spars booms and dies, so its not a complete bust.

We anticipate a bit of demand for the drawings... there's a clause in the contract we have from when they were purchased from BAE, that we have to supply them to the MOD when they require them. The last time that happened was in 1994, the next is anticpated to be some time after 2030 - by which time both our aircraft and the BBMF Lancaster will be getting ready for a new set.

If the NDT on our Shackleton shows healthy spar booms, then the work involved will be along the lines of a Major servicing, albeit with all SI's and STI's brought into phase with it and carried out at the same time. We have a considerable amount of spare parts and have been working to cover any gaps in our inventory... the intent being to put together a Shackleton overhaul package. Plans are in place for a ferry flight if the work isn't able to be done on site at Coventry.

Usage beyond 594 hours is guesswork at the moment... we're not really going to think beyond that point until we know that those hours are definitely usable.

Kind regards,

Rich Woods
SPT

[richw_82]

Remember this post on our Facebook page? (and copied onto UKAR the same day)

"Occasionally the CAA site provides a pleasant surprise. The latest being that they've added the Shackleton to their list of eligible aircraft types for operation under BCAR A8-23, A8-24 and A8-25 approvals.

Every step forward is a step closer to flight. Every piece of red tape cut is one more shackle to the ground gone.

Keep the faith, WR963 will fly again."

We can now reveal that three weeks ago, things took a significant step fowards, in that we had what is the first of many visits by the aviation authorities. As a consequence the way we have been doing work, recording it, and the way we will be doing things as we take things forward is under review to meet their requirements. The majority of pieces in the puzzle are in place (hangarage arrangements, spares, tech documents and manuals etc, etc) and there is feverous activity happening behind the scenes in getting the word out and chasing up more support. This activity will allow us to make swifter progress towards our goal of flight, so we'll be increasing our efforts accordingly to step up the pace of work on the Shackleton herself.

Regards,

Rich W
SPT

[spellow3010]

Fabulous news... It's one part of the overall battle to have them at least acknowledge your eligibility.

[hunterxf382]

Whilst the winter engineering is going along at a steady pace, you may have assumed that the next update would be from richw_82 saying that we had worked our way through the list methodically as expected etc...
Well as far as the engineering goes, it's business as usual with working parties progressing well, including sourcing some locally manufactured parts which saved the day when some originals were beyond further use or missing....

However, the big news in the middle of the month is that the Trust has a major sponsor providing the team with all the essential oils and lubricants required to complete the correct servicing schedules with the right products! Sil-Mid Ltd are locally based but a global supplier, and have shown a huge interest in the project and it's future! The news is spreading fast on social media as well as the company's own website, and their sponsorship deal is a massive lifeline for the project.

http://www.silmid.com/news/february-2015/avro-shackleton-wr963-sponsorship.aspx

The trust's website is soon to receive a makeover too, and it seems we are all over social media at the moment with this sponsorship...

[Pringles]

Fantastic news!