Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Mike on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 7:52 pm

I've not been following all the petty squabbles, and as a result of the ongoing civil war have rather lost interest in the project over the past few years. I'm sure there are many like me, so to bring us up to speed, what is the situation regarding the proposed return to flight? Is this still being actively progressed, or is the plan now to maintain the aircraft as a ground runner?
Mike

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby richw_82 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 8:34 pm

Hi Mike,

After things went sour we had to sit back and figure out of it was worth carrying on - we all thought it would be a waste not to. So it is still an in progress work to get WR963 flying, the opinion was such that if we could get back to the monthly run-ups, and from then on to taxying again with paying visitors we could still make it work; and that is where things have focussed so far.

Rather than repair we opted to go out and purchase several components for speed and ease of servicing. This allowed the pneumatic crate to be overhauled and purge the leaks we had last season. Two of the four magnetos on the engines have been replaced due to wear, and a box of booster coil components was located from deep store and that got the ignition side sorted. The engines now start within a couple of blades turning again.

On the hydraulic side as well as having the pumps overhauled, we acquired a spare, and have mulltiple sources of nearly all components for the system. On the fuel side, we now have all the crossfeed fuel cocks in and working, so we can make best use of the system rather than each tank feeding a separate engine.

The permanent transmit issue was traced to a faulty junction box on one of the AEW operators positions, it was triggering a 'push to talk' signal to the VHF set. Seeing as this aircrew position won't be needing VHF in the future it didn't hurt the system to isolate it, and now comms have been restored.

We've also established what will be a new taxying route around the Airport and hope to resume it next year. The aircraft is pretty well serviceable at the moment but we want a few more runs under the belt before trying to stretch her legs again.


Offsite work, we downsized the storage and filtered a lot of parts out that we had multiples of; paring it down until it was more usable. (Do we need a pallet full of coolant tanks? No.) We did a few trades and acquired some items we badly needed as rotable components, such as undercarrriage legs. There's still more we need, but the gaps are starting to close.

On the flight side of things we have a number of organisations willing to help us with component overhauls, design work, and airworthiness approvals, but while its nice to have those offers in principle - its not going far until we've raised some funding. We have enough to get some basic NDT done from the Kickstarter appeal a few years ago but we need to be careful about what is done and where to start to make best use of it. So in 2019 we need to see a busy Shackleton to get things a bit further.

Kind regards,

Rich
Last edited by richw_82 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963 2009 - 2016
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
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richw_82

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Defendermad on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 8:35 pm

So to clear a few things up, I don't have an axe to grind, I am simply annoyed by the fact a project which seemed so promising cannot even open for paying visitors when it says on their website, I've been countless times but to no avail, I've donated in the past, but where's the money gone? There are 2 years accounts missing from when the trust was active, these will have to be filed by law, so hopefully the charities commission will act on that. How many different people update? Can an organisation really get through that many volunteers? And as for my reference to the attitude of the group when questioned, well, I rest my case!
Return to flight? I wouldn't hold your breath on that, if this thing ever flys I'll eat my hat!
So carry on attacking people, it looks very inviting from the outside!
Defendermad

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 8:54 pm

Defendermad wrote:There are 2 years accounts missing from when the trust was active, these will have to be filed by law, so hopefully the charities commission will act on that.

:facepalm:
Try re-reading my post.....you know, the bit where it says The CC entry is for the SAG, which hasn't existed since 2016, which is why there aren't any accounts published since 2016....it's been a CIC since 2016.....and you can't be a CIC and a Charity....so it hasn't been registered with the CC since 2016.....so it hasn't needed to provide accounts to the CC since 2016....which is why there aren't any !!

Verstehen?
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Brevet Cable

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby richw_82 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 9:01 pm

Wake up a tad will you? The only attacks are coming from people that seem hard of understanding and still rake up the past.

In answer..

Opening times - you PM'd me about it, and posted on here, and created a separate topic. You were told repeatedly that they didn't reflect activities accurately and could not be relied upon. Funnily enough when the website got redone they're not there any more.

Donated in the past - you and many other people. If it was up to the end of 2016 its all invested in the big white aeroplane, as intended. If you've donated since (No idea how..) then I've no idea where its gone, as that brings me onto our next point...

Charity - Its dead! Deceased! Demised! Shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisibile!! It is an ex-Charity!!! It exists in name only, and is not operating, so until it gets struck off the books its not going to show any accounts for any years further to those recorded. After dealing with the Charity Commission back then they're quite aware of this. You seem to miss the point - whether deliberately or not I don't particularly care.

Vounteers - People working on the aircraft now are a variety who have worked on it between 1998 - 2016, with a few more recent volunteers. We lost about 8 when things went sour. There's still plenty of people kicking about. As for updates - my brother took over when I stopped as he thought it was worth doing. I ventured that it was more trouble than it was worth and I'm still thinking that way.

Attitude - Keep on kicking us and you will get kicked back. Breaking point was met and exceeded a while ago, and none of us have the time for dealing with fools. If you don't want to help, get out the way.

Hat - Start picking your favourite sauce.
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963 2009 - 2016
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
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richw_82

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Defendermad on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 9:26 pm

http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Sh ... ryNumber=0 There are accounts missing for active periods, which is when I donated! Just because the charity now sits dormant doesn't mean the outstanding periods go unaccounted for, a charity collected money, and hasn't produced accounts for money collected/spent, we as donators at least deserve that!
You did liased with me, granted, but the times I'm talking about are from last year when you had dates posted as open and when I came along nobody was there, stop diverting away from my query!
I won't bother with the sauce, you've been waffling about flying it for God knows how long, my hat might as well be a steel one because I'll never be tasting it!
Defendermad

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby richw_82 on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 9:43 pm

Whatever.

You know better than the Charities Commission, obviously. I'll listen to them though rather than your ranting, thanks.

Your visits in 2017, don't make me laugh. Using an autopopulated Facebook 'opening times' table - which you were warned about - you managed to miss every engine run, update, work day and event even when they were all over social media. Despite messaging me and posting on here in January, May, and later (you even managed to pick the day of my wedding for one.. :question: ) then this year you tried on the RAF100 event when we'd stated on Facebook we were off site.

I'm not sure what your issue is with comprehending and resolving what you're told against what you think ought to be, but its obviously a good one.

Your last remark says it all to be honest... you think we're waffling and it won't fly. If we believe in what we're doing and keep working at it - it will. If you don't think so - why the hell are you still bothering me? Go find something you DO like and stop spoiling things for others.
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963 2009 - 2016
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
User avatar
richw_82

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby JetMan on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 4:47 pm

And I thought the old Vulcan threads were great for entertainment value... This tops it!

Having read through, my understanding is that the Shackleton Preservation Trust (The Charity) was closed in 2016, so no accounts need filing with the charities commission for a charity that, in their eyes, no longer exists.

Shackleton Aviation Group then took over and, as a Community Interest Company, cannot be a Charity and files accounts with companies house rather than the CC.

I could be completely wrong, but that’s what I’ve got from the various posts.
JetMan

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 5:05 pm

:clap:
You're not wrong....on both accounts
:clap:
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Mike on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 6:49 pm

richw_82 wrote:Hi Mike,

...

Kind regards,

Rich

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Rich. I'm glad you are planning to get the Shackleton taxying again soon. I'll try to get to one of the taxy runs next year.
Mike

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby frank on Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:45 pm

richw_82 wrote:
Attitude - Keep on kicking us and you will get kicked back. Breaking point was met and exceeded a while ago, and none of us have the time for dealing with fools. If you don't want to help, get out the way.




Good for you :clap:
frank

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Wissam24 on Fri 16 Nov 2018, 9:56 am

Guys, keep this civil please, otherwise we'll just lock it. Rich, as frustrated as you may be for various reasons, there's no call for making insults to our members. Everyone else, likewise.

It's starting to just go round in circles so if it really can't be kept levelheaded then it'll go.
Twitter: @samwise24 | Flickr: samwise24 | Shamelessly copying LN Strike Eagle's avatar ideas since 2016
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Wissam24
UKAR Staff

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby frank on Fri 16 Nov 2018, 10:03 am

Wissam24 wrote:Guys, keep this civil please, otherwise we'll just lock it. Rich, as frustrated as you may be for various reasons, there's no call for making insults to our members.


Sorry Sam but I totally disagree with you here. Rich is quite righty defending his position against what he sees as inaccurate criticism. I have reread what he has posted and IMHO it is not offensive and I think you have over-reacted as a Moderator here. Hope that helps.
frank

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby richw_82 on Fri 16 Nov 2018, 3:49 pm

I've had a look back at what I've posted and while I've laid the sarcasm on a tad I don't remember insulting anyone.

Given the above warning about my posts - can I ask why suggesting my friends and family are akin to pikeys and engaging in fraudulent activities has escaped scrutiny? Things have been challenged with the Charities Commission and didn't turn up anything untoward. Continuing to suggest things are still not as they should be is not just insulting, its bordering on libel.
Richard Woods
Team leader Avro Shackleton WR963 2009 - 2016
http://www.facebook.com/avro.shackleton
User avatar
richw_82

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Oldtower on Tue 20 Nov 2018, 5:36 am

richw_82

Hi Rich, I have sent to you a PM , a couple of things that may interest the group. Kind regards.
2019 Abingdon Airshow - Sunday 5th May, Abingdon Airfield.
http://www.abingdonairandcountry.co.uk
Oldtower

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Domvickery on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 4:08 pm

Things sounding familiar?



(Read the comments)
Inventor of the baguette scale
Domvickery
UKAR Staff

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Defendermad on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 6:31 pm

When I read the accounts I thought things didn't add up, I've seen various bits posted around, it seems there's a divide again, with Dave Woods claiming, once again, that wr963 is his, yet the Shackleton aviation group claim it's theirs, just like last time, now, I wonder who really does own it? And what about the spares? Or, what's left of them. I think this poor Shackleton has suffered enough,and I cannot see anyone having any faith in the project now. My own opinion is it needs putting in a museum before it gets seized for any unpaid debts and ends up being cut up for scrap!
Defendermad

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 9:44 pm

Which accounts would those be, then?
The ones you kept harping on about before, presumably...... you know, the ones which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the current organisation ( which isn't a registered charity so doesn't need to submit accounts to the CC ) :whistle:
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Defendermad on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 10:40 pm

Well that would be the accounts filed with companies house, that are available to everyone to view. The other ones are the Charity commission ones that are missing from when the Charity was still trading.
Defendermad

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Brevet Cable on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:03 pm

How about posting a link to these new accounts, then?

And you may want to re-read the posts replying to the previous occasions when you've erroneously claimed the charity (which ceased to exist in 2016) didn't submit accounts for the post-2016 period (when it no longer existed)
Or are you now claiming something completely different?
Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Domvickery on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:08 pm

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10598129

Click on filing history then accounts & you can see it as a PDF
Inventor of the baguette scale
Domvickery
UKAR Staff

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby IP1960 on Sun 10 Feb 2019, 11:12 pm

Domvickery wrote:Things sounding familiar?



(Read the comments)


There were some comments on FB earlier under details of the work they had been doing onsite today, including by Dave Woods, mentioning seizure notices and other bits. They now seem to have all gone.

I had high hopes for this project a few years ago, but sadly even taxying now seems beyond her due to the eternal squabbling.
IP1960

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Tommy on Mon 11 Feb 2019, 7:40 am

IP1960 wrote:
I had high hopes for this project a few years ago, but sadly even taxying now seems beyond her due to the eternal squabbling.


Agreed. I have neither the time nor inclination to look into the squabbles and form a view, just that they have eroded, perhaps permanently, any interest and trust I had in the project.

Seems to be a perpetual cycle of internal rows and squabbles and people being booted out every 9-12 months. It just seems so stupid. As things are now, and as they have been for a while, I regret parting with funds to support the return to flight, which is a shame because I used to be really excited about this.
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Tommy
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Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby Marka1967 on Mon 11 Feb 2019, 12:04 pm

It's a shame the project has come to this and as for flying the shack I really don't think it will ever happen unless its taken over by a professional organisation with lots of money and resource. I think they should drop the return to flight dream and concentrate on just preserving the aircraft and keeping it live.
Marka1967

Re: Shackleton WR963 - [Official Topic]

Postby CJS on Mon 11 Feb 2019, 12:08 pm

Marka1967 wrote:It's a shame the project has come to this and as for flying the shack I really don't think it will ever happen unless its taken over by a professional organisation with lots of money and resource. I think they should drop the return to flight dream and concentrate on just preserving the aircraft.


Just sorted that for you :up:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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CJS

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