New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Discuss all things 'aviation' that do not fit into a more appropriate forum
Post Reply
User avatar
jalfrezi
UKAR Staff
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sat 16 Jun 2012, 2:23 pm
Location: Cambridge

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by jalfrezi »

As Stickshaker and slsmotors have said, all this should mean is airshow planners need to submit the area of the display and apply for an exemption to the 500ft rule while aircraft are within that defined area.

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

If this has been released in error, heads should roll.

All points at the CAA being incompetent and unfit for purpose.

Timc
Posts: 1320
Joined: Sat 13 Sep 2008, 6:32 pm
Location: Somewhere very close to Cosford!
Contact:

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Timc »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:If this has been released in error, heads should roll.

All points at the CAA being incompetent and unfit for purpose.


I agree, but only a judicial review will sort this mess out once and for all, although I wouldn't like to suggest or predict the outcome?

It would seem on reflection signing up to petitions, writing to your local MP is a complete waste of time?!

As BADA would appear to be the defacto body to implement such a case I'm somewhat disappointed with what appears to be abosolute silence? Maybe they are working behind the scenes, who knows?!

User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon 13 Jul 2009, 5:46 pm
Location: Sherborne, Dorset

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Thumper »

It was the public who started the move to get that government hired health company fired who assessed disabled people for work. That company was so bad an MP even made a joke of it in parliament one day by saying they had declared Richard III fit for work. I think that's proof that if you shout loud enough and have the right backing you can get noticed, I know it's a whole different kettle of fish but it's the same principle. In fact I have just thought of the perfect spokesperson to have who would not be ignored... Chris Evans!

User avatar
AlexC
Posts: 6040
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 6:40 pm
Location: New Forest

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by AlexC »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Everything the CAA does runs counter to that of a body looking to safeguard the future of the industry. From day one their agenda has been clear.


Can an airshow be properly described as part of an 'industry'?
Pte. Aubrey Gerald Harmer, R. Suss. R. (att. to the Sherwood Foresters) KIA 26/9/1917 Polygon Wood, aged 19, NKG. RIP

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

AlexC wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Everything the CAA does runs counter to that of a body looking to safeguard the future of the industry. From day one their agenda has been clear.


Can an airshow be properly described as part of an 'industry'?


The people who earn their living from it would describe it such.

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

Timc wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:If this has been released in error, heads should roll.

All points at the CAA being incompetent and unfit for purpose.


I agree, but only a judicial review will sort this mess out once and for all, although I wouldn't like to suggest or predict the outcome?

It would seem on reflection signing up to petitions, writing to your local MP is a complete waste of time?!

As BADA would appear to be the defacto body to implement such a case I'm somewhat disappointed with what appears to be abosolute silence? Maybe they are working behind the scenes, who knows?!


From day one BADA have been a disgrace.

User avatar
MicrolightDriver
Posts: 1427
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 10:23 am

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by MicrolightDriver »

Timc wrote:...As BADA would appear to be the defacto body to implement such a case I'm somewhat disappointed with what appears to be abosolute silence? Maybe they are working behind the scenes, who knows?!


I don't know, but that is very often where by far the most effective negotiations take place.

User avatar
effects
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 4:36 pm
Location: 1.5 miles west of 06 EGLF

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by effects »

Dan O'Hagan wrote:Where is the common sense here?

Where is the trust being shown in properly-regulated, licenced and trusted pilots?

Where is the intelligence being applied by an aviation body that surely is staffed and run by people who not only know aviation, but have a desire to make airshows safe, yet still exciting to watch, and as easy as possible to organise and stage.

Everything the CAA does runs counter to that of a body looking to safeguard the future of the industry. From day one their agenda has been clear.

Any pilots spoken out yet?

One point here, was it not a 'properly-regulated, licenced and trusted pilot' who deviated from the rules of his aircraft's C of A, that ultimately got us to where we are today?
Nikon P900 (Sony DSC-HX400V, Sony DSC-HX300 and DSC-H2 retired)

User avatar
Dan O'Hagan
Posts: 2279
Joined: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 6:05 pm

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

effects wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Where is the common sense here?

Where is the trust being shown in properly-regulated, licenced and trusted pilots?

Where is the intelligence being applied by an aviation body that surely is staffed and run by people who not only know aviation, but have a desire to make airshows safe, yet still exciting to watch, and as easy as possible to organise and stage.

Everything the CAA does runs counter to that of a body looking to safeguard the future of the industry. From day one their agenda has been clear.

Any pilots spoken out yet?

One point here, was it not a 'properly-regulated, licenced and trusted pilot' who deviated from the rules of his aircraft's C of A, that ultimately got us to where we are today?


Indeed, allowed to fly by the good old CAA. Slipped through their regulations. Hence the frantic knee-jerk arse-covering.

User avatar
sithrity
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri 02 Aug 2013, 10:15 pm

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by sithrity »

effects wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:Where is the common sense here?

Where is the trust being shown in properly-regulated, licenced and trusted pilots?

Where is the intelligence being applied by an aviation body that surely is staffed and run by people who not only know aviation, but have a desire to make airshows safe, yet still exciting to watch, and as easy as possible to organise and stage.

Everything the CAA does runs counter to that of a body looking to safeguard the future of the industry. From day one their agenda has been clear.

Any pilots spoken out yet?

One point here, was it not a 'properly-regulated, licenced and trusted pilot' who deviated from the rules of his aircraft's C of A, that ultimately got us to where we are today?


Implying that a contributor to our "sacred hobby" might hold blame for current issues with our hobby. How very dare you!

We still have shows we can attend. If loads of shows were scrapped, I might spare a thought for people who are made redundant.
But I wouldn't be thinking about all those Enthusiasts who have nothing to do that weekend.

I mean no offence to any members of this forum. In fact I enjoy UKAR throughout every day.

Reading through this subject, I feel a small amount of reactions here are similar to how the kids react, when their TV programmes are turned off.
I don't know everything there is to know about our hobby.

Kids, aviation, missus then responsibilities, (in that order)

User avatar
iaint
UKAR Staff
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 10:09 pm
Location: Leics

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by iaint »

I see that There has been exemptions granted for Gyro Air Displays, and they can display at 75m separation
http://www.gyro-air-displays.co.uk/news-gyro-air-displays-granted-caa-exemption-for-reduced-crowdline-separation/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iainthomson84/

End of Message, End of Broadcast

User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter
Posts: 3431
Joined: Mon 13 Jul 2009, 5:46 pm
Location: Sherborne, Dorset

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Thumper »

Posted this morning on the Keep Airshows Airborne Facebook page;

Our sources say, '...have spoken with one of the display chaps at the CAA and he has confirmed that they will be issuing a revised display permission which will specifically include the clearance to fly below 500'. They admit that the issue of yesterdays safety notice has set the cat among the pigeons under the law of unintended consequences'.


Pee up in a brewery springs to mind!

User avatar
JJC
Posts: 2295
Joined: Mon 19 Apr 2010, 7:14 pm
Location: North England

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by JJC »

It does come to the point where you have to question their competence...
''Time to dive into the fireworks!''

User avatar
grant_w
Posts: 733
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 11:33 am

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by grant_w »

so, according to that announcement yesterday - everyone has to display above 500ft...apart from him, that show, this show, that display, oh and one of my mates. :clown:
Absolute joke of an organisation

Alanko
Posts: 560
Joined: Fri 24 Jul 2015, 11:24 am

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by Alanko »

sithrity wrote:Reading through this subject, I feel a small amount of reactions here are similar to how the kids react, when their TV programmes are turned off.


:clap: I heartily agree. I've seen the same attitude elsewhere as well.

stickshaker
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue 14 Oct 2008, 9:14 pm

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by stickshaker »

grant_w wrote:so, according to that announcement yesterday - everyone has to display above 500ft...apart from him, that show, this show, that display, oh and one of my mates. :clown:
Absolute joke of an organisation


No.

It is just that the 'exemption' to fly below 500ft will be written in a different place. It was, until yesterday, part of the standing UK exceptions to SERA. From now on, it will be part of the display permission - as recommended by the AAIB.

User avatar
grant_w
Posts: 733
Joined: Sun 31 Aug 2008, 11:33 am

Re: New CAA CAP 403 Display Regs Published

Post by grant_w »

stickshaker wrote:
grant_w wrote:so, according to that announcement yesterday - everyone has to display above 500ft...apart from him, that show, this show, that display, oh and one of my mates. :clown:
Absolute joke of an organisation


No.

It is just that the 'exemption' to fly below 500ft will be written in a different place. It was, until yesterday, part of the standing UK exceptions to SERA. From now on, it will be part of the display permission - as recommended by the AAIB.


Thanks for clarifying. Everyone seems to be reporting different things and the official information itself isn't the easiest to work what is meant

Post Reply