RAF Marham Enthusiasts Day 2017

[Elliott Marsh]

Probably in the region of 40-60, but I can't be certain. It never felt too busy.

[Stagger2]

When I were a lad the Forces were paid 365 days a year & didn't need to be 'asked' to do anything. From that, we get to "volunteering to do an unpaid night-shoot" & being on the cusp of receiving a campaign medal?
Plainly... one of the ways to save some costs to provide these events would be to have Day-shoots, without the expense of lighting & in 'office-hours' to negate the need for heroes.
All cost-vs-reward criteria is subjective & a personal process we go through multiple times a day, sub-consciously or not. From where we shop, eat, visit, fill-up the car, to what work we do & beyond! The perceived value for money is relevant on a plethora of individual factors, not least the size of your 'coffers' & the positive influx of more bucks than outgoing?
To the subject in-hand, why all the ill-feeling? There are those that are willing to pay to attend this event because they have plenty of money & what's to lose? & those that will attend by missing-out on other luxuries, like food & happy families? It's an individual choice & nobody has to justify their decision either way.
Me?.....No-way Jose!!

[john001]

I feel some underestimate the cost of putting events on. Can you profiteer if you are doing it for a family day or charity? As in anything the market will set the price to a large degree balanced with the expectations of those raising the money.

In general the tone seems to be pretty negative towards Marham and from it I would certainly not want to go - until I read this http://www.aeroresource.co.uk/events/raf-marham-enthusiasts-event/ and now I would..

Of course there are people who cannot afford it, of course it costs to get there, stay there but that's no different to any other event.

[Wes_Howes]

I've attended two arranged photo events recently and the Northolt Photocall during the day time (remember those?) back in 2008.

The first of the recent(ish) events was the 238sqn organised event back in September where the Jags were run for the last time. For £25 you were on the airfield as the Jags were taxiing, then once parked up you were able to crawl all over them and even sit in them if you wanted. Finally they were started up again and all took a salute from a fire tender, lastly the Spotty Jag was turned around and came through the water once more to allow head on shots. The numbers were around 250 I think but as there was plenty of space marked out and airframes on show, I never felt like I was getting in other people's way or they in mine. Overall I think the event lasted around 4 hours.

My second was the TLE organised night-shoot with the Jags and Tornadoes, once again at Cosford. I had been in a fortunate position to be able to afford the £65 asking price at the time so I thought I'd give it a go as that would be the only real way to judge the value for money. There were plenty of airframes available to shoot, with two Tornadoes and three Jags parked outside, 7 Jags and a Jet Provost sat in the hangar and a couple of scaffolding towers to make use of. It was a long afternoon after arriving at Cosford around 1pm and leaving about 7.30pm and we got a decent meal in the airfield mess to keep us going. Not to forget the four or five actors who were cooperative with most requests.

However, there were a lot of people in attendance, easily 100+ squeezed in between the two hangars and inside one of them. I lost count of how many times I got tutted at and you can only apologise so much before you realise that you just can't help but get in somebody's way sometimes. There was a lack of information being provided about what was happening, for example, I only found out the smoke and lighting of the Jags in the hangar was happening as the smoke was being turned off There were also plenty of people running around the back of airframes and then hanging around, thinking they were out of sight, when actually they weren't, therefore wasting a lot of peoples time and then not moving when asked.

So would I go to another TLE event? Yes I would but not at the price I paid, I came away feeling a little frustrated that whilst most of the people in attendance were courteous and polite, there were others who simply didn't care as long as they got the photos they wanted and the lack of information being passed around was disappointing, leading to missed opportunities. I should add though, that Neil from TLE was very helpful when, due to a family bereavement, I could not make the original date I'd booked.

edited - for grammar

[Pringles]

I feel some underestimate the cost of putting events on. Can you profiteer if you are doing it for a family day or charity? As in anything the market will set the price to a large degree balanced with the expectations of those raising the money.

In general the tone seems to be pretty negative towards Marham and from it I would certainly not want to go - until I read this http://www.aeroresource.co.uk/events/raf-marham-enthusiasts-event/ and now I would..

Of course there are people who cannot afford it, of course it costs to get there, stay there but that's no different to any other event.

Interesting conclusion to the article that you linked:

At the end of the evening, those that had attended the RAF Marham Enthusiasts Event all left content having experienced some excellent hospitality and, most importantly for many, a chance to shoot the Op Granby jet. Whilst the original cost of £50 may have seemed steep to some, it certainly didn’t seem to affect the numbers attending with the event ‘selling out’. However, with the original plans failing to materialise (which included a number of visiting aircraft), the attendance fee was reduced accordingly to £20 and certainly represented excellent value for money given the operational movements that also occurred – including a surprise display from the RAF Typhoon team! With feedback already being gathered and talk of future events to help raise money for the station’s charities, we are sure that future events will build on this solid foundation and attract significant interest from the enthusiast community.

[Talldan76]

At the end of the evening, those that had attended the RAF Marham Enthusiasts Event all left content having experienced some excellent hospitality and, most importantly for many, a chance to shoot the Op Granby jet. Whilst the original cost of £50 may have seemed steep to some, it certainly didn’t seem to affect the numbers attending with the event ‘selling out’. However, with the original plans failing to materialise (which included a number of visiting aircraft), the attendance fee was reduced accordingly to £20 and certainly represented excellent value for money given the operational movements that also occurred – including a surprise display from the RAF Typhoon team! With feedback already being gathered and talk of future events to help raise money for the station’s charities, we are sure that future events will build on this solid foundation and attract significant interest from the enthusiast community.

I attended the evening at Marham last year, and actually forgot about the fact that they reduced the price to £20 from the original £50. This was discussed on the coach on the way back to the car park, and the overwhelming decision (certainly from the people I was sat near) was to donate the £30.

There were a number of airframes that for one reason or another cancelled - but that to me did not detract from the evening.

The one thing that has slightly disappointed me, is that on that evening (and in emails leading up to it) was that we were told that attendees from last year would be notified about any subsequent events - something which has not happened - however that does allow other people the experience of going on-base etc.

Now the proper gripe...

In general these posts where people moan about the product and cost annoy me. For example, if you walked past a shop window, and saw something on display that you didn't like would you go into the shop and complain? Or if you went to buy, say, a jacket, but the cost was too high, would you complain - or would you just walk on by?

We seem to have endless posts along these lines on here, where individuals jump on it, saying this is too expensive or the subject matter not worth it - the answer surely, is if you think either of those then just pass it by - Do you really have to moan about the same things every time?

[G-CVIX]

The "moaning" as you call it is more aimed at the fact that enthusiasts are being priced out of events that are supposed to be aimed at enthusiasts, on a rising scale that has and will only get worse. See DanO and Andy's posts on page one of this thread.

Completely different to "going into a shop to complain".

I have quoted Andy's second post here because i think that it says it best:

Precisely, it has only been in the last 12-18 months have we seen a spike in the price from £25 to around £50 for these "military photoshoots".

One did it, and people paid, and others have followed seeing they can get away with it.
Whilst people blindly pay whatever is charged they will continue to do so, it isn't about being able to afford it, it's about the charge being a rip off regardless if you can afford it or not.


If an Apple was readily available but Tesco's charged £100 for it... is that limited to those that can afford it or is it a rip off?

[john001]

The "moaning" as you call it (from what i can see it's just a sharing of opinions and you're annoyed that vast amounts of people​ have a different one to you) is more aimed at the fact that enthusiasts are being priced out of events that are supposed to be aimed at enthusiasts, on a rising scale that will only get worse.

Completely different to "going into a shop to complain". You've entirely missed the point of what people are saying.

One would assume that if you are prepared to pay 50 plus you are an enthusiast. Judging by the numbers of people reportedly attending these events it does not seem to me they are being priced out. Only a big fall of in numbers will indicate being priced out (in general terms). Of course, like any other product there are individuals who cannot afford it, all of the time or some of the time but that's the market. In reality the aviation world is great for people who cannot afford much - of course you have to get there but standing otuside an airfield or airport does not cost and there are several free shows every year as well as freeloading at most of the others.

[G-CVIX]

My post has been edited a little since you replied and i understand what you're saying but i think that the point that most that say "if you can't afford it, don't go" are missing is that there is no reason for it to not be affordable, as it has been in the past.

[TKK 140]

At the end of the evening, those that had attended the RAF Marham Enthusiasts Event all left content having experienced some excellent hospitality and, most importantly for many, a chance to shoot the Op Granby jet. Whilst the original cost of £50 may have seemed steep to some, it certainly didn’t seem to affect the numbers attending with the event ‘selling out’. However, with the original plans failing to materialise (which included a number of visiting aircraft), the attendance fee was reduced accordingly to £20 and certainly represented excellent value for money given the operational movements that also occurred – including a surprise display from the RAF Typhoon team! With feedback already being gathered and talk of future events to help raise money for the station’s charities, we are sure that future events will build on this solid foundation and attract significant interest from the enthusiast community.

I attended the evening at Marham last year, and actually forgot about the fact that they reduced the price to £20 from the original £50. This was discussed on the coach on the way back to the car park, and the overwhelming decision (certainly from the people I was sat near) was to donate the £30.

There were a number of airframes that for one reason or another cancelled - but that to me did not detract from the evening.

The one thing that has slightly disappointed me, is that on that evening (and in emails leading up to it) was that we were told that attendees from last year would be notified about any subsequent events - something which has not happened - however that does allow other people the experience of going on-base etc.

Now the proper gripe...

In general these posts where people moan about the product and cost annoy me. For example, if you walked past a shop window, and saw something on display that you didn't like would you go into the shop and complain? Or if you went to buy, say, a jacket, but the cost was too high, would you complain - or would you just walk on by?

We seem to have endless posts along these lines on here, where individuals jump on it, saying this is too expensive or the subject matter not worth it - the answer surely, is if you think either of those then just pass it by - Do you really have to moan about the same things every time?

The donation was a very good thing to do.

[rob68]

Just for comparison same, Metallica tickets went on pre sale today. Some may not like them so will not get tickets. I ordered 1 standing ticket. £2.55 fulfilment fee. £11.35 transaction fee + the actual ticket = £98.98....thats without NEC car parking at £12. I will not bother with the support so I roughly get 2 hours for the money. Also remember they haven't done a good album since the black album. 1st time I saw them in 1986 the ticket cost £4.50.....in comparison £50 is cheap. This all is relative to your own circumstances though.

[st24]

Just for comparison same, Metallica tickets went on pre sale today. Some may not like them so will not get tickets. I ordered 1 standing ticket. £2.55 fulfilment fee. £11.35 transaction fee + the actual ticket = £98.98....thats without NEC car parking at £12. I will not bother with the support so I roughly get 2 hours for the money. Also remember they haven't done a good album since the black album. 1st time I saw them in 1986 the ticket cost £4.50.....in comparison £50 is cheap. This all is relative to your own circumstances though.

Copy that but "big band" (or these days over self important 50-60 somethings who need another mansion and/or luxury yacht bashing out the same old dirge ) concerts have always been expensive relatively speaking. Airshows/photocalls haven't.

[Cliffair]

forgetting the price debate for a moment but...

has anyone had a reply to the email yet... im wondering if my email arrived or not?

Compared to timeline events which are not always for charity but often private ventures the ticket price for Marham is comparable!

I cant afford to go to all the events id like so pick and choose my events through out the year... I think its unfair when folk start comparing these photocalls with shows like RIAT... just think of the true ticket price if no sponsorship went into RIAT?

[bhjordan]

has anyone had a reply to the email yet... I'm wondering if my email arrived or not

They had email issues again this year, so any mails sent in the first 5-6 days weren't received. I re-sent and got a reply fairly quickly, I believe the event is now full, but they are doing a reserve list as people do drop out.

[AlexC]

The Staff team are getting very sick of the playground immature bickering and blatant trolling of other members. UKAR

Good for the Staff team. Not before time.

[Craig]

forgetting the price debate for a moment but...

has anyone had a reply to the email yet... I'm wondering if my email arrived or not?

Compared to timeline events which are not always for charity but often private ventures the ticket price for Marham is comparable!

I cant afford to go to all the events id like so pick and choose my events through out the year... I think its unfair when folk start comparing these photocalls with shows like RIAT... just think of the true ticket price if no sponsorship went into RIAT?

I believe those that have places have received a confirmation email. I know I have and several others.

[Nwalch]

forgetting the price debate for a moment but...

has anyone had a reply to the email yet... I'm wondering if my email arrived or not?

Compared to timeline events which are not always for charity but often private ventures the ticket price for Marham is comparable!

I cant afford to go to all the events id like so pick and choose my events through out the year... I think its unfair when folk start comparing these photocalls with shows like RIAT... just think of the true ticket price if no sponsorship went into RIAT?

I believe those that have places have received a confirmation email. I know I have and several others.

How specific was the confirmation email? My reply said -

Thank you for expressing your interest in this event I can confirm that we have received your emails and for those who have asked for 2 tickets this has been added to the list. I will be in touch shortly with the form that I will need returning with your details alongside the different methods that will be available for you to pay the contribution.

Again thank you for your interest and we will be in touch soon with the forms.

[Craig]

forgetting the price debate for a moment but...

has anyone had a reply to the email yet... I'm wondering if my email arrived or not?

Compared to timeline events which are not always for charity but often private ventures the ticket price for Marham is comparable!

I cant afford to go to all the events id like so pick and choose my events through out the year... I think its unfair when folk start comparing these photocalls with shows like RIAT... just think of the true ticket price if no sponsorship went into RIAT?

I believe those that have places have received a confirmation email. I know I have and several others.

How specific was the confirmation email? My reply said -

Thank you for expressing your interest in this event I can confirm that we have received your emails and for those who have asked for 2 tickets this has been added to the list. I will be in touch shortly with the form that I will need returning with your details alongside the different methods that will be available for you to pay the contribution.

Again thank you for your interest and we will be in touch soon with the forms.

Exactly the same

[rob68]

Had no reply at all to to two emails

[Talldan76]

Had no reply at all to to two emails

Same here.

[rob68]

Another comparison. Chinnor & Princes Risborough Railway are offering a view of Flying Scotsman from their signal box at £49.95....... see www.chinnorrailway.co.uk

Comes down to how much disposal income you have really

[138EAW]

The Enthusiast team have started sending out the application form

[Craig]

The Enthusiast team have started sending out the application form

Yep got mine this morning. Really looking forward to it!

[bhjordan]

The Enthusiast team have started sending out the application form

Yep got mine this morning. Really looking forward to it!

Same here, all filled in and paid. Roll on the 11th

[Ruislip Rustler]

When I were a lad the Forces were paid 365 days a year & didn't need to be 'asked' to do anything. From that, we get to "volunteering to do an unpaid night-shoot" & being on the cusp of receiving a campaign medal?
Plainly... one of the ways to save some costs to provide these events would be to have Day-shoots, without the expense of lighting & in 'office-hours' to negate the need for heroes.
All cost-vs-reward criteria is subjective & a personal process we go through multiple times a day, sub-consciously or not. From where we shop, eat, visit, fill-up the car, to what work we do & beyond! The perceived value for money is relevant on a plethora of individual factors, not least the size of your 'coffers' & the positive influx of more bucks than outgoing?
To the subject in-hand, why all the ill-feeling? There are those that are willing to pay to attend this event because they have plenty of money & what's to lose? & those that will attend by missing-out on other luxuries, like food & happy families? It's an individual choice & nobody has to justify their decision either way.
Me?.....No-way Jose!!

And when I were a lad, there were 81,000 blue-suiters giving plenty of 'spare bods' in the system to be 'volunteered' for extraneous tasks. 'Harmonisation' and working day lengths weren't too much of an issue. It was a 'can-do' air force and we took great pride in that attitude.

These days, I'm not a lad anymore and the RAF numbers just over a third of what it did back then. People go to do what the government decides is fit and proper in crappy locations about every 18-24 months after a period of 'harmonisation' for family life before the work-up cycle begins again. There isn't the capacity to support non-essential activities any more and those in charge are a lot more risk-averse.

Dayshoots impact on the normal operations of an airfield which has far more important things to worry about. Those active RAF stations offering access to the enthusiasts are the bigger ones where more manpower is available and those who volunteer to support these events generally do so of their own free will as they can see how it would to benefit the general public and positively raise the station's and RAF's profile in a positive fashion.