UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Ewart on Fri 08 Dec 2017, 5:57 pm

I don't often post.

But has anyone else thought UK HAT is a silly name for a aviation based idea.
Probably more suited to a trip to Manchester (http://www.thehatmuseum.com) than a trip to Shuttleworth/Duxford/etc.
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Ewart

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby robterry99 on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 6:02 pm

Tommy wrote:I wish this group well, I really do, which is why I've taken a not insignificant amount of time to write an extensive post that will likely be read by no-one


Tommy,

I read it. Thank you.

It's an eloquent, well rounded, honest post which I hope others will read, not least the UKHAT "staff" themselves. They appear to be blundering ahead without much of a plan, unwilling to fund any of their ventures and expecting the general public to hand over money to a so-called-Trust which has presumably failed in its attempt to become a registered charity. (in other news, APRES finally admitted today that they too failed to become a charity, quelle surprise!)

I was particularly amused to see HeyfordDave111 say that UKHAT are "coming across as 16 year old keyboard warriors"
- I think that's giving them more credit than they deserve, particularly as Matthew "Communications" Lear doesn't actually turn 16 until next summer. :roll:

Did anyone go to the UKHAT-organised talk by Barry Masefield at Baginton Village Hall last week? I remember seeing it advertised, but then they seemed to get all distracted by that old lump of Herald at Gatwick. Did it actually happen?

Rob
robterry99

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Skymonster on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 7:26 pm

robterry99 wrote:Did anyone go to the UKHAT-organised talk by Barry Masefield at Baginton Village Hall last week? I remember seeing it advertised, but then they seemed to get all distracted by that old lump of Herald at Gatwick. Did it actually happen?


It was cancelled - if I remember correctly, due to insufficient ticket sales, blamed on the proximity of the event to Christmas which they claimed meant likely attendees would have other things in their diary. First week in December - I'm not convinced of the validity of that argument. I did wonder - if they can't even organise a talk in a village hall, what hope anything more significant?

I had hopes for the rescue of the Herald at Gatwick when a Facebook group was first formed to encourage those with a like-minded view to get together to discuss what could be done. However, what appeared to be a disparate group with a common objective soon morphed into something that UKHAT muscled into - or maybe they were behind from the start, but initially it wasn't apparent. It certainly seems that some UKHATers have self-appointed themselves to lead the "project".

Sadly I now have far less hope that the aircraft will be rescued. Initially I was surprised that UKHAT was involved, as preserving an airliner which will never fly again seems far from the originally stated objectives of the "trust". Moreover, I didn't have much confidence they would be able to achieve their original objectives, and the way they have gone about the Herald project leaves me with no greater faith in what they are attempting to do now. They've already talked about an aircraft with no engines taxiing again - good luck sourcing some serviceable Darts at a reasonable price. And that's before the airframe has been surveyed and confirmed as salvageable at a realistic cost and with reasonable effort. If nothing else, I think UKHAT needs to walk before it tries to run. And now the cackhanded fundraising attempt - to buy merchandise to sell. Huh? All things being equal, I would have done what I could (however little that was) to help preserve a Herald, but now in my mind I've consigned the airframe back to the "lost" category. I believed / hoped there was a chance, but given their track record so far, I don't have much faith now with UKHAT running the show.
Skymonster

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Skymonster on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 8:08 pm

The Herald's Facebook group is apparently being shut down this weekend in favour of a Facebook page. But at the end of October Duncan Halford posted: "...the fire service ultimately want to see her go to a new home they are not going to give her up lightly or to just any group, and were very interested to hear that we wanted to restore her to a high standard and keep her at the airport for as long as possible whilst at least some of that restoration takes place to CAA standards. They want to help us in any way they can so further more detailed discussions will now have to take place..."

On the justgiving page they are using to attempt to raise funds for merchandise which was set up just a day or two ago: "UKHAT have been given the opportunity to restore XP to her former glory by the Gatwick Airport Fire Service and we hope to move the aircraft to another airfield in the foreseeable future."

There had been no formal indication in between those two statements that UKHAT has actually got the go ahead from the Gatwick Fire Service... Did the detailed discussions take place? Was a conclusion reached that means UKHAT is indeed now officially and recognisely in the driving seat? Has a structural survey taken place, or are they attempting to raise funds agains something that could potentially be a no-hoper? Or when they say on the justgiving page they have "been given the opportunity", is that wishful thinking at this stage? And anyway, why does a non-flyer need to be restored to "CAA standards"?

Seems to me to becoming more and more like a VTTS-style fiasco... And VTTS are a trust.
Skymonster

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby robterry99 on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 8:17 pm

In response to the announcement of their ham-fisted fundraiser (https://www.facebook.com/hpheraldcexp/p ... 0387968215) someone asked the question "Do you have to pay for the herald or has it been gifted by the fire svc???"

The response was that "She will be gifted to the Trust. We are not pushing to take ownership at this stage because the fire service don't pay ground rent and there is a chance we would have to. She is safe where she is for the foreseeable future."

I do wonder if the Gatwick Fire Service know that the "trust" they're going to gift an aircraft to isn't a trust at all, nor is it a charity. It's nothing more than a jobbing gardener and a schoolboy who have very little knowledge or credibility when it comes to aircraft preservation and restoration.
robterry99

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 8:20 pm

I think the whole fiasco, debacle, attempt, whatever you want to call it that UKHAT has got itself into is a stark reminder of the perils of social media. Don't get me wrong, it can be an extremely powerful way of getting your ideas across and for galvanizing support and raising funds for whatever your cause is.

Unfortunately the flipside of that - which is what UKHAT appear to have fallen and be falling into big time - is that if you don't have everything properly thought out and considered in advance you end up looking like you really don't have a clue what you're doing. And it's there from day one for all to see for the rest of forever.

20 years ago it could never have happened like this and almost certainly UKHAT would have got nowhere. Even more nowhere than they have got now.

I have nothing but admiration for anyone who wants to keep or restore historic aircraft, but you really really can't go about it like this, otherwise I'm afraid you're doomed to fail.

I just hope they realise and either change drastically and quickly or jack it in before they or anyone else starts throwing money at their projects, because there is little (nothing) to suggest that money is going to actually get anything done any time soon (ever).

Sorry to be negative (I'm not usually) but I'm struggling to see how this can end well if it carries on.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
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CJS

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Brevet Cable on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 8:58 pm

Skymonster wrote:Seems to me to becoming more and more like a VTTS-style fiasco... And VTTS are a trust.

That would be VTST ( and it's earlier incarnations ) who did restore and return an aircraft to flight, and operated it for several years...... :whistle: :lol:
Not the best example you could have chosen, to be honest :biggrin:

There have been plenty of individuals & groups over the years who've sprung into existence with the stated intention of restoring an airframe(s) either to flight operation or as a museum exhibit.
Many never really got off the ground ( no pun intended )
Some got as far as purchasing an airframe.
Most of those ceased to exist pretty quickly whilst some lingered on before failing, often with a disastrous outcome for the airframe(s) they'd purchased.
Others adapted to circumstances and changed their ambitions to match.
Some still exist and - years later - are still working towards their goals.

Which category does UKHAT fall into ?
Whilst I'd like to see any restoration project succeed, sadly I feel they fall into the first category.
I also have the same doubts about TMPT ( or whatever they're called )
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Brevet Cable

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Berf on Sat 09 Dec 2017, 9:40 pm

Brevet Cable wrote:Many never really got off the ground ( no pun intended )
Some got as far as purchasing an airframe.
Most of those ceased to exist pretty quickly whilst some lingered on before failing, often with a disastrous outcome for the airframe(s) they'd purchased.
Others adapted to circumstances and changed their ambitions to match.
Some still exist and - years later - are still working towards their goals.



I reckon the MOD fits all of those. :smile:
Berf

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Duncan Halford on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 9:57 am

Hello All

First of all I would like to wish you all a happy Christmas. Because of the comments about UKHAT on another thread over the last few days I felt it was time to raise my profile and engage with you all and hope that we can keep comments about UKHAT just to this thread.

Unfortunately, some individuals still seem to think that UKHAT is just Matthew and I, in fact this has never been the case and actually there are eight of us now Nigel Powton, Jem Shaw, Pete Jenness, Jason Cotton, Clive Grievson and of course not forgetting my wife Gill Halford.

This forms the working committee and there are others who have offered help at air shows and other events.

Reading back over some of the comments I have to say that some will be treated with the contempt they deserve and will be ignored especially where Matthew and I have been called “Amateur Morons” and the like.

However there have been some very constructive comments and criticisms especially from the likes of “Tommy”, “CJS” “XP282” and Skymonster that deserve replies to as we go on. If I can’t answer the comments straight away I will go away and endeavour to do so as soon as possible but certainly will not be hiding anything.

I read Tommy’s Comments from the 7th December with interest and they have been taken on board and we are working through them. We won’t get everything right first time and I am sure like many other organisations and charities big and small will make mistakes from time to time, we are only human after all, the main thing is we learn from them and continue to develop.

I have gone back over all the comments and though I’m not going to answer them again now, I am happy to try and answer sensible, and most importantly polite questioning going forward. In the same way the guys at the Vulcan Restoration Trust at Southend have been very open and honest especially with their recent unfortunate move out the hangar so we will be as well.

Though our application for Trust status was turned down this was not a flat rejection, it was mostly around wording and costings and them wanting us to have a home in place for the Herald. We have a case officer who is working with us to resolve these issues and after a long phone conversation they are well aware of our Facebook pages, website and our name.

They are happy with our progress, don’t feel we are in any way hiding anything and certainly don’t think we need to change our name at this stage. So once Xmas is out of the way it shouldn’t be too much longer before our application for Trust status is completed.

CJS your comment today on the other thread is one worth trying to answer.

“Take UKHAT for comparison: yes, flawed in some (to others, many. To some, every) respect. But, they at least are engaging with those on here in a professional, albeit somewhat sporadic, way. They at least have just the one person speaking on their behalf, do try to address the questions raised.

We will never please everyone and we are not going to try and I’m sure there are some people on here just waiting for us to fail so they can say “I told you so” However as I have said before we will happily take constructive criticism on board and as we have been doing all this year, listen to people in the heritage aviation world such as Mark Hooton of Vampire WZ507 fame who have far more experience than we do.

This is one of the reasons why we have decided to go for the restoration on a Handley Page Herald at this time and not operate classic jets which need experienced people to help operate. For some the Herald is not worth saving, being of the viewpoint, “It’s only an old airliner”. For others they can’t wait to see her saved and ultimately restored and have expressed lots of interest and have offered help in various ways.

This is going to be a long road and as some have quite rightly pointed out she is lacking most of her instruments and more importantly two engines.
Though our research so far it actually turns out the engines will be the easiest but most certainly not cheapest components to source. A company in South Africa can supply us with two life-expired but certainly suitable for ground running, engines fairly easily. Before people ask, we don’t have a specific cost for these as I’m sure you are all aware, this is not high on the list of priorities at the moment.

We are aiming to have a cleaning day at the end of January for the Herald. In addition, a detailed structural survey will also be undertaken at the same time. In order to facilitate this, we have to work closely with the fire service and Gatwick Airport management because of her current location “airside”, however we will provide a further update once we have a date confirmed.

Many Thanks
Duncan Halford (chairman)
Duncan Halford

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Duncan Halford on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:26 pm

We’re very excited here at UKHAT!

The fantastic guys at Gatwick Fire Service have agreed to pass full ownership of G-CEXP to UKHAT. But they’re just as committed to her future as we are, so they’ve made the proviso that she’ll become ours when we have a secure home for her, where she can be restored to her former elegance. This was great news, and we’re forever grateful to them for their support.

But here’s the really exciting bit:

We’ve been working behind the scenes with Gary Spoors at St Athan in South Wales, and today we can reveal that XP will definitely be moving to a new home where she can be restored and made available for the public to explore and admire.

Now the hard work REALLY starts. First job is to make a detailed inspection of XP to formulate a plan for her disassembly, We’re making good progress on assembling the necessary manuals and drawings, so we’ve already made a start. St Athan is being hugely supportive and will ultimately play a major role in her disassembly and transport.

Fund raising is under way, and has got off to a seriously good start. Don’t forget that you can support UKHAT – at no cost to you - simply by buying from major online retailers like Amazon and Argos.

Sign up at: http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/ukhat/. It only takes a minute or so, and you’ll be helping secure XP’s future without it costing you a penny!

Regards

Duncan Halford (Chairman)
Duncan Halford

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Brevet Cable on Thu 08 Mar 2018, 3:59 pm

Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
trollpikken fforwm swyddogol
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Brevet Cable

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Georgeconna on Fri 09 Mar 2018, 5:23 pm

Nice bit of positive news there for a change. Lets hope your plan comes together.
Cheers

George

Zero shows for 2018 Giving in a Rest.
Georgeconna

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby airstrike on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 8:26 pm

UKHAT:
I am deeply concerned with your approach to taking on Handley Page Herald G-CEXP, for the reasons outlined below. I know that I am not speaking just for myself, but some of my points will echo throughout other aviation enthusiasts, though I do admire your reasons for setting up the charity originally, as well as the enthusiasm that you show.
Notably, your former website shows that your committee have little to none expertise in restoring a vintage aircraft to static condition - and your current website does not even show who is involved with the project (highly unprofessional and will lead to less people getting behind your cause). Hence, it would have been expected that you would have volunteered with another suitable preservation group, gaining an insight into this industry.

Furthermore, on your Facebook page, a comment from a post on the 6th December suggests that you have not completed a structural survey on the aircraft. Replying to a comment, you suggest that you have taken a close look at the aircraft and believe it to be in good condition, yet it seems that none of you have the expertise to say that is the case. The aircraft has been sat on the grass for many years, presumably without any corrosion treatment. I find it difficult to believe that the aircraft is in as good condition as you state.

Your plans to return the aircraft to a runnable state also concern me greatly. Where would you source a pair of serviceable Rolls Royce Dart engines for the aircraft and what would the cost of this be?

Moreover, what will the exact required expenditure be to move the aircraft from its location at Gatwick, to your chosen home of St Athan. Considering your current JustGiving fundraising appeal has only raised £600 so far, I doubt this will get you very far at all. How do you plan to generate the required amount of interest in the Herald?

Your motto of “Try for the Sky” suggests your ultimate aim is to restore G-CEXP to the sky. Have you spoken to the CAA about this? If so, would you be prepared to tell us their response? How would this operation be sustainable long-term? What would the estimated cost be? It is certain you would make a loss and rely on donations and sponsorship to keep afloat - yet the interest level currently is very low and your Facebook and Twitter pages gain very little followers week to week. Your Facebook page is sometimes also unprofessional, with grammar mistakes and the like. Other preservation groups I expect take far greater steps to ensure that this does not happen.
Last edited by airstrike on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 8:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
airstrike

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 8:30 pm

TLDR.
Breaking it up into paragraphs would help.....as it is, it looks like one long sentence.

Edited to add :
:up:
Last edited by Brevet Cable on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby cg_341 on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 8:35 pm

TL;DR:

I've just created an account to post about things this thread has already covered in detail :up:
cg_341

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Airspeed on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 2:05 am

Duncan, could you please clarify the current status of the UKHAT and confirm who is Chairman?

In recent posts you have signed messages as Duncan Halford (Chairman). However, the recent registration of UKHAT with the Charity Commission records the Chair as being a Nigel Powton, with the only other Trustee being a Mrs Gillian Halford.

Here is a link to Charity Commission website detailing this information and to see the specific details to which I refer, please click on the "People" tab within the page:
http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/ch ... 41&subid=0
Airspeed

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Duncan Halford on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 8:34 am

Hi Airspeed,

I’m not sure what you want me to clarify, as the Charity Commission entry is obviously the definitive status. The charity was originally set up by Nigel and myself, with our original roles being agreed at an early stage.

As we’ve moved forward, and the new charity has grown into a reality, we’ve made several changes to suit its evolution. One of these was for Nigel to become chairman.

Airspeed wrote:Duncan, could you please clarify the current status of the UKHAT and confirm who is Chairman?

In recent posts you have signed messages as Duncan Halford (Chairman). However, the recent registration of UKHAT with the Charity Commission records the Chair as being a Nigel Powton, with the only other Trustee being a Mrs Gillian Halford.

Here is a link to Charity Commission website detailing this information and to see the specific details to which I refer, please click on the "People" tab within the page:
http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/ch ... 41&subid=0
Duncan Halford

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Duncan Halford on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 10:08 am

Airstrike,

Can I ask your motives for this comprehensive blitz of negativity? You state your concern for the wellbeing of G-CEXP, yet you launch a tirade to undermine the one group that’s committing itself to saving her.

But let’s deal with your points as they arise: Our founders had scant knowledge of restoring an aircraft. They were moved simply by a passion to do something positive for historic aviation.

Since then, what started as a fairly formless dream has turned into something far more concrete. This has resulted in our forming growing relationships with a number of people and bodies who do have the required expertise.

We’ve approached the XP project with the philosophy of “first do no harm”, as we know that mistakes at this stage could blight XP’s future.

Our former website did, indeed, include an incomplete list of some of our members. Our new site, which – like most new productions – is a work in progress, doesn’t include this. I’m sorry you find this unprofessional. As I can find no such entry on the websites of Vulcan to the Sky, Shuttleworth or Duxford Aviation Society, I presume you’ll be launching a similar attack on those excellent organisations.

We did comment on 6th December that we have not completed a formal structural survey. It’s now April, and we haven’t sat on our hands in the meantime. Initial inspections by people with far more knowledge than we show that, considering that XP has stood outside for so long, she’s in encouragingly good condition. We are now well advanced in discussions with industry experts on the plan to stabilise, disassemble and move her to a new home where restoration can begin.

Why are you concerned that we’re aiming high? Are you suggesting that because we can’t guarantee the availability of a pair of Dart engines that we should give up and let XP rot? How would that relieve your concerns?

Oddly enough, we don’t yet know the exact expenditure required to make the move. That’s why we’re working with specialists to establish a budget. Our JustGiving page doesn’t represent our only funds, but I make no secret that we’re not there yet. We’re just getting started, and we’re already seeing an increase in income.

Now that we have our charitable status in place, and a website that can grow to help us in our endeavours, we’re in a position to begin more ambitious fund-raising.
Yes, our motto is “Try for the Sky”. As we make clear in our other communications, we’re not stating that flight is an ultimate certainty, nor even a probability. But are we to be blamed for trying? No, we haven’t spoken to the CAA yet – to waste their time on an outcome that no one could say is possible would be irresponsible and pointless. If that goal becomes a possibility – let’s say in five or ten years’ time – then we would, of course, make the required contacts. But in the meantime, we’ll do our best to make it possible, by trying for the sky.

Your negativity about the success of our Facebook and Twitter pages is, frankly, petty and vindictive. We’re a new charity, in the process of raising our game. We know we have to improve, and we are improving. And as for their, grammar. You’re absolutely right; looking back on some of our Facebook posts, I can see several errors. Why you think this has any bearing on our ability to restore XP is frankly beyond me. That being the case, I won’t dignify your criticism by highlighting your own errors in the post above.

I apologise to everyone for the length of this reply, and also that it may come over as aggressive in tone. But posts like the one above serve no one. They merely undermine the chances of survival for a valuable piece of aviation history.
Duncan Halford

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Airspeed on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 10:52 am

Duncan Halford wrote:Hi Airspeed,

I’m not sure what you want me to clarify, as the Charity Commission entry is obviously the definitive status. The charity was originally set up by Nigel and myself, with our original roles being agreed at an early stage.

As we’ve moved forward, and the new charity has grown into a reality, we’ve made several changes to suit its evolution. One of these was for Nigel to become chairman.

Airspeed wrote:Duncan, could you please clarify the current status of the UKHAT and confirm who is Chairman?

In recent posts you have signed messages as Duncan Halford (Chairman). However, the recent registration of UKHAT with the Charity Commission records the Chair as being a Nigel Powton, with the only other Trustee being a Mrs Gillian Halford.

Here is a link to Charity Commission website detailing this information and to see the specific details to which I refer, please click on the "People" tab within the page:
http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/ch ... 41&subid=0


Duncan

I am astounded that you question why I sought clarification. As a result of my question you have just now confirmed on here that you are not the Chairman. In posts on here up until today you have signed yourself as the Chairman of UKHAT. I can't find mention on this Forum that, before I queried it, you advised readers that there has been any change to that status. I yesterday checked the Charity Commission website and found that you are NOT recorded on there as the Chair. It seems pretty fundamental that the credibility and authority of the content of posts is bound up with the official status of people if they say they represent an organisation. Surely it is important to advise readers of your change (if that is the case) of status. Were you ever registered with the Commission as Chair of the Trust or were you only Chair prior to it becoming formally registered with the Charity Commission? Have you ever been a formal Trustee of UKHAT? What precisely is your role now with UKHAT? I am not trying to undermine UKHAT's aims or efforts, merely trying to get some clarity over its Officerships, so I can gauge the authority and credibility of announcements made by individuals on behalf of UKHAT.
Airspeed

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby borismorris on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 1:25 pm

Keyboard warrior alert.

Give the guy a break and whilst you're at it try to construct your replies with breaks too.

:loser:
borismorris

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Georgeconna on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 2:46 pm

Welcome to UKAR Duncan. The most Negative board it seems on the net. I do enjoy the banter though :lol:
Cheers

George

Zero shows for 2018 Giving in a Rest.
Georgeconna

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Duncan Halford on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 2:53 pm

Dear Airspeed,

On a point of order, I didn’t ask why you wanted to know, I asked you what needed clarification. Why it should be such an issue with you is your business, not mine. There was no change of chairman to advise on.

Before UKHAT became a registered charity, the founders assigned themselves informal roles. Note that, at this point, we didn’t solicit public donation. On constituting it as a fully registered organisation, we decided internally that Nigel was better situated initially to perform the role of chairman. This didn’t require any formal announcement as no change had been made, nor had we asked for public donations.

With regard to trustees, we are currently setting up a more extensive board. Nigel and Gill are the only initial custodians. When our board is fully formed, we may well make a change to the Chair, in the light of the spread of skills and time availability we then have.

We’ll announce such developments on our website, not because of any obligation to do so, but because we think people will be interested to know how things are progressing.

All of our actions are, quite rightly, performed under the scrutiny and regulation of the Charities Commission, who have performed thorough due diligence on our constitution.

I make this reply in the hope that it will satisfy you. I’m not confident of that, however, and fully expect some other bizarre rant in response. I hope you enjoy your attempts to undermine the best efforts of people who are doing nothing other than trying to preserve our aviation heritage.

This, however, will be my last response on the matter.

I have more positive things to do with my time.
Duncan Halford

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Airspeed on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 3:13 pm

Duncan

Many thanks for taking the time to answer the points that I raised. If you review my posts, you will find that I politely asked some questions about the status of Officers of the Trust and that is not a "rant". I also clearly stated that I have no desire to undermine the aims or efforts of UKHAT. You have now confirmed that you are not the Chairman and since my query I note you aren't now using that title beneath your posts.

I now have a better understanding of the UKHAT structure and the role of certain of the personnel, which was all I initially sought!
Airspeed

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Maccyd on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 4:22 pm

Airspeed wrote:Duncan

Many thanks for taking the time to answer the points that I raised. If you review my posts, you will find that I politely asked some questions about the status of Officers of the Trust and that is not a "rant". I also clearly stated that I have no desire to undermine the aims or efforts of UKHAT. You have now confirmed that you are not the Chairman and since my query I note you aren't now using that title beneath your posts.

I now have a better understanding of the UKHAT structure and the role of certain of the personnel, which was all I initially sought!


And you also established what an open and pleasant organisation they clearly are. Lots of lessons could be learnt from the likes of TPM on how to engage and communicate with potential stakeholders. I've certainly not seen anything that would motivate me, or convince me that were I to donate my monies would be used wisely or transparently.
User avatar
Maccyd

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Wed 04 Apr 2018, 8:36 pm

Duncan Halford wrote:Dear Airspeed,

On a point of order, I didn’t ask why you wanted to know, I asked you what needed clarification. Why it should be such an issue with you is your business, not mine. There was no change of chairman to advise on.

Before UKHAT became a registered charity, the founders assigned themselves informal roles. Note that, at this point, we didn’t solicit public donation. On constituting it as a fully registered organisation, we decided internally that Nigel was better situated initially to perform the role of chairman. This didn’t require any formal announcement as no change had been made, nor had we asked for public donations.

[my snip]

I make this reply in the hope that it will satisfy you. I’m not confident of that, however, and fully expect some other bizarre rant in response. I hope you enjoy your attempts to undermine the best efforts of people who are doing nothing other than trying to preserve our aviation heritage.

This, however, will be my last response on the matter.

I have more positive things to do with my time.


I (genuinely) applaud you for keeping up with the questions being fired at you on here, but perhaps it's worth keeping at the forefront of your mind that UKAR is a place where your potential donatees (sic) will frequent (or in some cases lurk :ghost: )...I think an acceptance that your previous posts do contradict your replies today would go at least some way to developing that trust and transparency that are being sought by some.

Exhibit a)

Duncan Halford wrote:We’re very excited here at UKHAT!

[my snip]

Sign up at: http://www.easyfundraising.org.uk/causes/ukhat/. It only takes a minute or so, and you’ll be helping secure XP’s future without it costing you a penny!

Regards

Duncan Halford (Chairman)


Exhibit b)

Duncan Halford wrote:Hello All

First of all I would like to wish you all a happy Christmas. Because of the comments about UKHAT on another thread over the last few days I felt it was time to raise my profile and engage with you all and hope that we can keep comments about UKHAT just to this thread.

Unfortunately, some individuals still seem to think that UKHAT is just Matthew and I, in fact this has never been the case and actually there are eight of us now Nigel Powton, Jem Shaw, Pete Jenness, Jason Cotton, Clive Grievson and of course not forgetting my wife Gill Halford.

This forms the working committee and there are others who have offered help at air shows and other events.

[my snip]

Many Thanks
Duncan Halford (chairman)


Informal, unofficial or whatever you want to call it, you were presenting yourself as the chairman and you had started fundraising (although not directly asking for money).

The approach of some on here is questionable on occasion, and abrupt to the point of rudeness sometimes, but (almost) all the time the questions and concerns are borne out of a love of aviation and they are coming from the same place that UKHAT state they are also coming from.

I've worked with a wide range of head teachers and senior management in my 16 years or so as a teacher and the best ones, the ones you could trust and the ones you respected, were the ones who said when they got it wrong and admitted to their mistakes. A slice of humble pie really can help - sometimes even when you don't actually think you should it can be the best way to get things (back) on track.

Just my tuppence worth of course, feel free to ignore it. :smile:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
How do you know I didn't?
User avatar
CJS

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