UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Discussions regarding historic aircraft, restoration and preservation etc
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john001
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by john001 »

I guess you are a politician in the making as you simply answer my question with asking one yourself.

You say 'there is nothing in place which would currently allow a Lightning or other jet to make any kind of flight in the UK.'

How do you know there? Have you asked the CAA?

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CJS
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by CJS »

john001 wrote:I guess you are a politician in the making as you simply answer my question with asking one yourself.

You say 'there is nothing in place which would currently allow a Lightning or other jet to make any kind of flight in the UK.'

How do you know there? Have you asked the CAA?


It's good practice to include all relevant parts of a quote...

"I've never said (sarcastically or otherwise) that it couldn't happen (in theory; I think we're all agreed it's extremely unlikely for a Lightning) in the future."

Well no, I admit I haven't asked the CAA and I've looked and can't actually find a permit for a Lightning to make a ferry flight. Which, I think, goes someway to proving my point doesn't it?

So if you could just point me in the direction of said permit, I'll gladly :surrender: . Thanks







:tumbleweed:

And by the way, I'm too honest to be a politician. And I don't own a duck house :butt:
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john001
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by john001 »

In an earlier post you said this:

Is there a permit for any Lightning to make a ferry flight in the UK at the current time?

No.

Therefore it is not, at the current time, allowed.

What's so difficult to understand?

I was simply asking where you got your information that there was no permit. I have no idea if there is one or not or where you would find one without asking the CAA, hence me asking.
I don't see how you can say there is no permit in such categorical terms or go on to add ''there is nothing in place which would currently allow a Lightning or other jet to make any kind of flight in the UK' without asking someone in authority who would know or by working in the industry and having expert knowledge.

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Brevet Cable
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Brevet Cable »

:snack:
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borismorris
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by borismorris »

I would imagine we can all agree it would be something really special to have a Lightning on the display circuit again whether it's a dream or not.

It wasn't all that long ago that folk said we would never see Vulcan fly again and yet against some pretty long odds it happened.

Aside from Concorde and perhaps the Mosquito I can't think of anything more iconic that COULD better capture the publics imagination and I for one, would dip into my pockets to help make it happen.

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CJS
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by CJS »

Ok, let me try again.

1. I don't have anything from the CAA which states there is no permit. Such a thing can't possibly exist because...

2. You apply for a permit when you need one.

Let's say I have a Lightning in my back garden which is ready to fly and I want to get it from my garden to Bruntingthorpe. What I have to then do is apply to the CAA for my ferry flight permit to fly.

I have to do this because (are you paying attention?) there isn't one I can currently use.

So, I am correct in saying there is no permit which exists at the current time allowing me to fly my Lightning.

I'm honestly struggling to see what's not to get? How can I prove the existence of something that doesn't exist?
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FGR2
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by FGR2 »

This is all pointless though as BAe Systems wouldn't support it anyway. In the accident report for the T5 in South Africa, there was a letter from BAe Systems stating their concerns about operating a Lightning in civilian hands.

Back to the main point, the problem here is you cannot make money to support a jet from appearances alone.

To have any chance it needs to be iconic and have a big following (financially) amongst the general public, like the Vulcan.

CAF called it a day after some misguided decisions and u-turns, and no-one in the UK has seen operating their jets as being viable.
MidAir had an idea of a Canberra Hunter display team, hoping to get sponsorship/advertising plastered over their aircraft. Many here questioned the viability of that and they subsequently hit financial trouble.
Drilling Systems probably donated the Sea Vixen to the FNHT (an honourable thing to to) :clap: , as it was the best way to secure it's flying future.
Even VTTS have bitten off more than they can chew, trying to keep the bandwagon rolling with the Canberra B2.

The thing is there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm out there, but commercial viability and sensibility seems to take a back seat.

I don't think UKHAT has done themselves any favours flapping between a Jet Provost, and then a Swiss Air Force Vampire. Both aircraft are already on the airshow circuit and have very limited appeal amongst the wider general public, so getting people to donate in any meaningful way will be nigh on impossible.

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Cole
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Cole »

borismorris wrote:I would imagine we can all agree it would be something really special to have a Lightning on the display circuit again whether it's a dream or not.

It wasn't all that long ago that folk said we would never see Vulcan fly again and yet against some pretty long odds it happened.

Aside from Concorde and perhaps the Mosquito I can't think of anything more iconic that COULD better capture the publics imagination and I for one, would dip into my pockets to help make it happen.

Harrier?
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jalfrezi
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by jalfrezi »

ColeTheDemolisher wrote:Harrier?


I would imagine that also falls into the 'complex' aircraft category (like the Lightning and Vulcan), making it highly unlikely to ever see one flying over here in civilian hands.

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speedbird2639
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by speedbird2639 »

Its all gone very quiet with that bunch of blow hards who said they were going to buy a Concorde that had been stood outside for 15 years and return it to flight. Presumably keeping quiet for fear of being exposes as the charlatans everyone said they were at the time.

Vampire 1973
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Vampire 1973 »

speedbird2639 wrote:Its all gone very quiet with that bunch of blow hards who said they were going to buy a Concorde that had been stood outside for 15 years and return it to flight. Presumably keeping quiet for fear of being exposes as the charlatans everyone said they were at the time.


Which group do you mean? Because I know UK HAT never said anything about putting Concorde back in the sky?

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speedbird2639
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by speedbird2639 »

Which group do you mean?


I presume its this lot http://www.saveconcordegroup.co.uk/ No activity on their website since Aug 2015 so I assume we've heard the last of that then.

UK HAT never said anything about putting Concorde back in the sky


Well not yet maybe but they way they are reportedly jumping from type to type as the mood takes them then I'm sure its only a matter of time...

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Cole
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Cole »

speedbird2639 wrote:
Which group do you mean?


I presume its this lot http://www.saveconcordegroup.co.uk/ No activity on their website since Aug 2015 so I assume we've heard the last of that then.

UK HAT never said anything about putting Concorde back in the sky


Well not yet maybe but they way they are reportedly jumping from type to type as the mood takes them then I'm sure its only a matter of time...

https://twitter.com/save_concorde
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speedbird2639
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by speedbird2639 »

https://www.ukhat.org/

They've got a website - now those who choose not to use Facebook can follow their nonsense as well.

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Pringles
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Pringles »

The Gloster Meteor was the first British jet fighter built and the Allies’ only aircraft to see service during World War II.

Fascinating how the Allies fought the war with one single aircraft type, introduced in 1944! Who needs Spitfires eh? :whistle:
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Brevet Cable
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Brevet Cable »

Whoopie-doo, they made an error on their website by missing out the word 'jet'. :tumbleweed:
Feel free to trawl through other websites looking for similar errors.....you can start with the RIAT website classifying the Skyvan as a ground attack aircraft ( which I note has now been corrected )
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SquadronMouse
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by SquadronMouse »

Pringles wrote:
The Gloster Meteor was the first British jet fighter built and the Allies’ only aircraft to see service during World War II.

Fascinating how the Allies fought the war with one single aircraft type, introduced in 1944! Who needs Spitfires eh? :whistle:


I see this has now been amended.

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Ouragan
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Ouragan »

A question for the contemptuous:

So what are you doing to preserve our aviation heritage that allows you to sneer at others who have genuine hopes?

XP282
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by XP282 »

Ouragan wrote:
So what are you doing to preserve our aviation heritage that allows you to sneer at others who have genuine hopes?


Well, what I'm NOT doing is misleading the public by calling myself a trust when I'm not a trust. Nor am I setting up multiple 'go fund me' type accounts asking for money to purchase a jet that I have no realistic prospect of purchasing. I'm all for enthusiasm.... But there is a right and a wrong way to go about things and I don't think UKHAT have got it right.

Dan213
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Dan213 »

Surprised me nobody has mentioned that their logo contains the RAF roundel. Fairly sure that the Ministry of Defence have copyrighted the RAF roundel in all its forms and any organisations that wish to use it have to pay them a fee

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starbuck
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by starbuck »

Dan213 wrote:Surprised me nobody has mentioned that their logo contains the RAF roundel. Fairly sure that the Ministry of Defence have copyrighted the RAF roundel in all its forms and any organisations that wish to use it have to pay them a fee


Really?

Yes the roundel is trademarked (apart from on clothing), but maybe they've asked and got permission? Why not let the MOD worry about it in any case.

Does seem like these guys are getting a kicking just for the sake of it.

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Pringles
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Pringles »

Anyone else notice that Hunter's impressive tackle? :pinkwafer:
Image
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Dan O'Hagan
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Dan O'Hagan »

So, how many of the aeroplanes in their logo does UKHAT own? Asking for a friend.

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starbuck
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by starbuck »

Could be a huntress?

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Pringles
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Post by Pringles »

starbuck wrote:Could be a huntress?

:grin: My apologies, that angle could be deceiving!
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic

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