UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby MiG_Eater on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:13 am

:snack:
MiG_Eater

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Berf on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 10:26 am

Duncan Halford wrote:
HeyfordDave111 wrote:OK, so ground running sounds good, but St. Athan? where is your income stream going to come from down there?


Hello Dave

As well as funding from Airshows, merchandise and members club we are also looking for corporate sponsorship and we hope to be able to open a small museum down there.



Well Duncan - museums up and down the country are hard pressed to stay open with fundraising for their specific needs - to look at a museum as a revenue stream is pretty hopeful to say the least. You need cash to open the museum, without supporters you will not get that nor will you get corporate sponsors if they don't see sufficient public interest. You need cash to buy merchandise then the returns on that are pretty small if any. The way you have approached things here you are not going to get much support to start and continue the things you see as revenue streams for your prime aim.
Berf

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby XP282 on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:03 pm

Duncan Halford wrote:We do know how much it is going to cost to get XP out of Gatwick and to St Athan, we are attending Cosford next weekend and we are planning to launch our fund raising campaign then


Duncan. Won’t this be the 3rd or 4th fundraising campaign you’ve run? Two for a vampire and the other ‘launch’ for the Herald that turned out to be a flop? You can keep ‘launching’ your fundraising.... at some point you have to accept that it’s launched and measure the response.... which so far has been very poor.
XP282

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby MiG_Eater on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:27 pm

Truthfully, I think both sides of this argument are kind of wrong.

Clearly the UKHAT guys are enthusiastic amateurs and probably not the best people to organise this, but nevertheless - this is, in my view, exactly the kind of organisation the UK needs at the moment.

It seemed utterly obvious to me that TVOC / VTTS should have ditched the Vulcan and used their expertise and traction to take on XH134 and a few other classics (Hunter, Meteor etc.) but their short sightedness meant all these aircraft fell by the way side. It's admirable that some others are trying to make something similar happen, and its a shame that their good intentions were met with such scepticism - but nevertheless... they are doing a pretty terrible job of it.
MiG_Eater

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby neilatter on Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:05 pm

Ambitious aims for an organisation which by their own admission on Facebook has so far managed to raise just over £2000 from various funding campaigns. Airshows cost money to attend, museums/commercial property cost money to maintain and, from my own experience, old aircraft cost money to move, house and restore. £2000 will barely scratch the surface and will disappear in the blink of an eye.

It will certainly be interesting to see the detailed costings that are promised for Cosford (I’m not quite sure why the secretive nature of holding back these figures is considered advantageous ) and a more open approach to engaging with the aviation enthusiast community would certainly go a long way to reassuring everyone’s doubts.

While the current course of engagement of seeming to be defensive and argumentative is pursued, confidence that the project is in capable hands will always be difficult let alone trying to secure anywhere near the required amounts of funding. Some clarity over the structure both in terms of personnel and funding would definitely go a fair way in allaying the current (justified) questions.

Just my two penneth from the perspective of someone with a project....
neilatter

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby neilatter on Sun 10 Jun 2018, 7:26 am

So the initial target is £25,000.....
neilatter

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby XP282 on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 6:24 pm

Not a chance.... this is their 4th (?) fundraising campaign and no one has seen any progress yet.... starting to think that UKHAT is the new TVOC, only with UKHAT, no one actually donates.

I’m interested to know what the full structural survey revealed about the aircraft?
XP282

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Tommy on Mon 11 Jun 2018, 8:17 pm

I didn't stop by the stand, as there was too much to do at the show on Sunday, but I walked past and I've got to say the UKHAT stand looked pretty sharp and professional for what it was. Banners and all.

Looked just as legitimate (though with much less merch and less crowded) as both the NavyWings and TPM tents nearby.

Not saying that I expected a dump, but y'know, credit due where credit's due - if it's about "image" (which it definitely is), then any member of the 60K crowd this weekend would have considered it just as legitimate as the the aforementioned pitches of the other organisations above. Given their very limited resources, they should be happy with that.
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Rebecca_1984 on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 5:35 pm

Yes I must say I was pleasantly surprised to see just how well presented the UKHAT stall at Cosford was, looked very professional so well done on that front.
Rebecca_1984

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby rob68 on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 6:40 pm

I agree, good set up, didn't stop though, not enough time on a 1 day show
rob68

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Skymonster on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 7:14 pm

Tommy wrote:I didn't stop by the stand, as there was too much to do at the show on Sunday, but I walked past and I've got to say the UKHAT stand looked pretty sharp and professional for what it was. Banners and all.


I think that's because - by their own admission - they've spent most of the money donated so far not on helping to save a Herald, but on a fancy tent, a few banners and some merchandise. :sad:
Skymonster

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby GertrudetheMerciless on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 7:33 pm

They did indeed look a smart, professional, set up. That’s a start if you’re looking to raise money, particularly from sponsorship.
GertrudetheMerciless

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Tommy on Tue 12 Jun 2018, 7:38 pm

Skymonster wrote:
Tommy wrote:I didn't stop by the stand, as there was too much to do at the show on Sunday, but I walked past and I've got to say the UKHAT stand looked pretty sharp and professional for what it was. Banners and all.


I think that's because - by their own admission - they've spent most of the money donated so far not on helping to save a Herald, but on a fancy tent, a few banners and some merchandise. :sad:


This seems a silly argument to hit them with though.

All similar organisations do (and should) divert some monies - especially the first couple of pounds - to get themselves off the ground and get their name and brand out there. No point in diverting everything to the Herald if funding dries up because nobody knows about them.

Only they can say about how many donations they received, or even how much of an impression they had. However, had they not spent that money on a tent, some banners, and merch, then however many thousands of the sell-out crowd at Cosford wouldn't have seen them, this thread would not have been bumped to the top.

As I said in my long December rant - merchandise and branding should be one of the very first things that is funded out of donations. In theory at least, that stuff starts the proverbial pebble that hopefully causes an avalanche.

I still don't think I could bring myself to donate a single penny to this organisation. They have, and have had, a plethora of (some embarrassingly basic) issues which should not have been issues. But, as I say, credit due where credit's due.

Edited to add -

I also want UKHAT to know that UKAR isn't the place of doom and gloom many think it is. Sure, we'll call out poor decisions. But we should, and do, give praise when people get things right.

This is the benefit of forums like this over UKHAT's own Facebook page, where its just full of lovely happy-clapper comments.

This is the real deal, the unfiltered opinions of their target market, hosted somewhere that's impartial. By no means the opinions of all, or even a majority, but those opinions that are given, are honest. None of us have a stake in UKHAT, so we can say exactly what we think.

As I've said many times before, organisations and airshows have at their hands a tremendous, (and free to them!) marketing tool in places like this.

If they are considered to have cocked-up, we (UKARians, not just staff) should call that. They (not just UKHAT) should be mature enough to take it on board. And likewise, when they get things right, we should also call that.

Frustrating as absolute hell this place must be to airshows and charities and the like. But like that honest friend who'll tell you what you need to hear, not what you want to hear, when praise is given, it's all the sweeter for it.

And, Insofar as UKHAT's image is concerned, they looked sharp at Cosford, and should be proud. :up:
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Rebecca_1984 on Mon 17 Sep 2018, 11:41 pm

Surprised this has not been picked up on yet but UKHAT are now it seems working as a partner to restore a Sea Vampire, website seems to only give a few details, however from the official Facebook page we can find the following,

New Vampire Project for UKHAT
UKHAT, the organisation working to rescue the Handley Page Herald from an abandoned corner of Gatwick Airport, has widened its remit by entering into partnership with Jon Vivash who is an Englishman currently living in Canada to restore his Vampire T.11 XE956.
Duncan Halford, chairman of the UK Heritage Aviation Trust, sees this as a significant step forward in the charity’s declared aims. “Our aim is to provide support for the protection and preservation of classic aircraft.
This partnership with Jon is a perfect fit; it’s a demonstration that we’re not limiting our attention to just our own aircraft but working for the good of historic aviation in general.”
The Vampire, XE956, has been delivered to UKHAT’s base at St Athan in Wales, and work is commencing on cataloguing and photographing her component parts. “She’s encouragingly complete, and in pretty good condition cosmetically,” said Halford. “It’s too early yet to say whether she can fly again, but we’re optimistic.”
We asked Duncan Halford how this new project would impact the restoration of the Herald. The answer is, not at all.
“The Herald rescue is moving into a new phase. Because of her location, it’s been impossible to work on her until she could be moved from Gatwick’s airside. Thanks to the generosity and enthusiasm of the airport, it now looks as if that’s about to change. We’re hoping to get started very shortly on cleaning and preparing her for a move. If there’s anyone in striking distance of Gatwick who’s willing to volunteer fingernails and knuckle skin, now’s the time to volunteer your help.”
Rebecca_1984

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 7:00 am

Rebecca_1984 wrote:Surprised this has not been picked up on yet but UKHAT are now it seems working as a partner to restore a Sea Vampire, website seems to only give a few details, however from the official Facebook page we can find the following,

The Vampire, XE956, has been delivered to UKHAT’s base at St Athan in Wales


Interesting that they are claiming it's at "UKHAT's base at St Athan"
Why?
Because it's actually with GJD Aerotech at St Athan !
( And somewhat off topic, GJD will also be getting G-APSA, the DC-6 currently at Coventry )
I may be wrong, but as far as I know GJD St Athan don't do RtoF, they tend to do ground-runners/statics.
Brevet.. Meh !!
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Paul_Reflex on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 7:28 am

Using a third person voice when you're clearly talking about yourselves is just dreadful. I'm glad the aircraft owner is 'an Englishman' though :lmao:
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby cg_341 on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 7:36 am

It's a press release, you always use the third person in press releases when talking as an organisation.
cg_341

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Paul_Reflex on Tue 18 Sep 2018, 9:23 am

cg_341 wrote:It's a press release, you always use the third person in press releases when talking as an organisation.


You're quite right, it does read like a press release. In my bleary eyed state this morning I had read it as just a FB post.
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Paul_Reflex

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Wissam24 on Thu 20 Sep 2018, 9:14 am

"An Englishman". Amazing
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 20 Sep 2018, 9:41 am

Wissam24 wrote:"An Englishman". Amazing


In fairness, that should guarantee the support of the VTTS "sport are troup's" followers... :lmao:
Dan O'Hagan

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby MiG_Eater on Thu 20 Sep 2018, 10:53 am

I'm a bit bemused by this. They're referring to him as an Englishman currently living in Canada which answers questions that might be raised about why the air frame is coming back to the UK. :dunno:
MiG_Eater

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Thu 20 Sep 2018, 11:07 am

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:"An Englishman". Amazing


In fairness, that should guarantee the support of the VTTS "sport are troup's" followers... :lmao:


I'm not entirely sure, on this point at least, what's wrong with referring to him as an Englishman?

He is one, and as MiG_Eater says, it's gives some context to the sentence. It's also a very common kind of phrase to use in such a context.

Let's not beat them just for the sake of it - as we all know they have provided enough genuine ammunition to make this sort of nit picking a bit pointless, don't you think?
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Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby vulcanshammer on Thu 20 Sep 2018, 4:34 pm

CJS wrote:
Dan O'Hagan wrote:
Wissam24 wrote:"An Englishman". Amazing


In fairness, that should guarantee the support of the VTTS "sport are troup's" followers... :lmao:


I'm not entirely sure, on this point at least, what's wrong with referring to him as an Englishman?

He is one, and as MiG_Eater says, it's gives some context to the sentence. It's also a very common kind of phrase to use in such a context.

Let's not beat them just for the sake of it - as we all know they have provided enough genuine ammunition to make this sort of nit picking a bit pointless, don't you think?


I agree with your points, I also do not see the issue with the reference to him being an Englishman.
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