UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby UKHAT_OFFICIAL on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 5:03 pm

We appreciate all of your comments and you may see that we have been quiet on the forum over the last few weeks. Please bear with us - there is lots going on behind the scenes.

Matthew
UKHAT
UKHAT_OFFICIAL

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby UKHAT_OFFICIAL on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 6:50 pm

Hi XP282

I appreciate your comments and I understand your concerns and let me answer those as best I can whilst the "trust" is in its formative stages

XP282 wrote:Hello Nigel / UKHAT_OFFICIAL,

I'm sorry to say but no... Your initial post has done nothing to alleviate my concerns or give any credibility to the project. You talk about having clear goals but I haven't seen them. To me it seems like the one and only goal is to buy whatever is available at the time, rather than setting out a clear strategy and pursuing the aircraft that best represents the trust. The UKHAT implies that the organisation (I refuse to call it a trust as it simply isn't) are looking to preserve UK aircraft yet they are now going after a Swiss Vampire.

As I stated in my earlier post we are currently undertaking negotiations of a commercial nature and as such it would not be appropriate to enter in the detail of those negotiations at this stage. At this time no assumptions should be made as to which aircraft we are currently looking to purchase as the negotiations are on going. We are certainly looking at a classic UK jet and I will provide more details when I am able.

Can you tell us some of the names behind the project? At the moment all we know is that people are being asked to a donate to a trust that isn't a trust, to buy a UK aircraft that has no connections to the UK, and the official contact is a guy called Nigel.

We are currently in the process of formalising the status of the group to become a trust and once those activities are complete and we have all of the appropriate governance in place we will then formally announce our structure, contacts etc. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to donate to a group that hadn't clearly laid out its aims and objectives in the public domain and rest assured that we will be doing that once we have completed the transitional phase we are currently in.

I honestly don't want to appear rude. It would be awesome if this project were to work out. I personally would love to see you go after the Canberra PR9 that is crying out for a new owner, but I'm sorry to say, in its current form, I won't be donating to UKHAT


As I said in my earlier post I have only just joined the group and I am looking at formalising the communications and offering clarity and transparency to our aims and goals. Please bear with us a little longer whilst we finalise our set up.

Than you for your patience.

Nigel
UKHAT_OFFICIAL

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Pringles on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 7:08 pm

UKHAT_OFFICIAL wrote:
XP282 wrote:To me it seems like the one and only goal is to buy whatever is available at the time, rather than setting out a clear strategy and pursuing the aircraft that best represents the trust. The UKHAT implies that the organisation (I refuse to call it a trust as it simply isn't) are looking to preserve UK aircraft yet they are now going after a Swiss Vampire.


As I stated in my earlier post we are currently undertaking negotiations of a commercial nature and as such it would not be appropriate to enter in the detail of those negotiations at this stage. At this time no assumptions should be made as to which aircraft we are currently looking to purchase as the negotiations are on going. We are certainly looking at a classic UK jet and I will provide more details when I am able.

Given that you have an ongoing crowdfunding page specifically raising funds to buy Vampire U1229, I'd say there's every right to make that assumption. It's not good to keep chopping and changing at this early stage, it hardly builds trust in your capabilities. What about those 2 people that donated that whopping £25?! :whistle: It's all well and good trying to seem reasonable and professional now, but I've certainly been put off by your informal initial social media presence, good luck rebuilding that image :cuppa:

Edit: I'm not sure how happy the group already maintaining VC10 ZD241 would be to see that you seem to have changed your Facebook profile image to their aircraft. They've maintained that aircraft successfully for several years now, I doubt they'd want you guys giving the impression its for sale for restoration to flight!
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic
User avatar
Pringles

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby BillRamsey on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 7:56 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:This spurious "Trust" has made the same mistake The People's Mosquito did in botching the launch. Before you go cap-in-hand to an already donation-weary public you MUST have a plan properly thought out with the right, experienced people on board.

For all VTTS' flaws, they nailed that from day one.

TPM are still struggling for credibility because they did not.


Hi Dan, thanks for another TPM mention on a thread unrelated to us. I have to say however, UKHAT have my sympathy as they seem to be going through the same, necessary, gestation process we did. I wish them well. Regarding your TPM point (and as I have said before, I wasn't involved in the initial falling out) could I just say I don't think TPM is struggling for credibility - I think some giant strides have been made. A properly established charitable company, an ever growing Club membership, a set of wing ribs built for example. I've done around 10 talks to pushing a thousand people in the last year - all receptive to our (unpaid) efforts. This year will see some further exciting and positive developments, I promise. I wonder if it's worth a conversation some time?

Regards

Bill Ramsey
BillRamsey

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby boff180 on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 8:18 pm

Perhaps (on the TPM front) it's worth a follow on Display Frequency interview between Dan and Bill to discuss how things have changed?

On the UKHAT side of things, perhaps people may be interested in a UKAR feature into the Trust once they've finished setting it up to clarify what the group stands for?

Andy

p.s. Welcome to the forums Nigel.
User avatar
boff180
UKAR Staff

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby The Baron on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 8:21 pm

Good thinking on both fronts, Andy. I for one think interviews with each would be a good idea.
Loafer for Mr. Da Vinci.
User avatar
The Baron

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby UKHAT_OFFICIAL on Wed 29 Mar 2017, 8:47 pm

Hi Andy,

Many thanks for the welcome. Rest assured you will be hearing plenty from me in the foreseeable future as I am now responsible for all communications in relation to UKHAT. I certainly concur that a UKAR feature would be an excellent platform to set out our aims and goals for the future. We are still in a transitional period but such a feature would certainly be something we would be interested in once we have finalised our set up and completed our governance obligations.

Thanks Nigel :smile:

boff180 wrote:Perhaps (on the TPM front) it's worth a follow on Display Frequency interview between Dan and Bill to discuss how things have changed?

On the UKHAT side of things, perhaps people may be interested in a UKAR feature into the Trust once they've finished setting it up to clarify what the group stands for?

Andy

p.s. Welcome to the forums Nigel.
UKHAT_OFFICIAL

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 11:59 am

boff180 wrote:Perhaps (on the TPM front) it's worth a follow on Display Frequency interview between Dan and Bill to discuss how things have changed?

On the UKHAT side of things, perhaps people may be interested in a UKAR feature into the Trust once they've finished setting it up to clarify what the group stands for?

Andy

p.s. Welcome to the forums Nigel.


Just seen this.

I'd certainly welcome an interview with Bill. Frank and with no aspect of TPM off-limits. Openness, as VTTS have discovered, pays dividends. Last time I approached TPM about a podcast they were very, very non-commital about doing one.

Happy to try and work it into a summer release - I'm unlikely to have much time for Display Frequency until mid-June though.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby cg_341 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:03 pm

boff180 wrote:Perhaps (on the TPM front) it's worth a follow on Display Frequency interview between Dan and Bill to discuss how things have changed?

Why? Other than from Dan, I've not seen any negativity about TPM's current status and operation...
cg_341

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Vampire 1973 on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 2:08 pm

Dan O'Hagan wrote:
boff180 wrote:Perhaps (on the TPM front) it's worth a follow on Display Frequency interview between Dan and Bill to discuss how things have changed?

On the UKHAT side of things, perhaps people may be interested in a UKAR feature into the Trust once they've finished setting it up to clarify what the group stands for?

Andy

p.s. Welcome to the forums Nigel.


Just seen this.

I'd certainly welcome an interview with Bill. Frank and with no aspect of TPM off-limits. Openness, as VTTS have discovered, pays dividends. Last time I approached TPM about a podcast they were very, very non-commital about doing one.

Happy to try and work it into a summer release - I'm unlikely to have much time for Display Frequency until mid-June though.


What more would you want to know about them Dan. Please be specific
Vampire 1973

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby BillRamsey on Thu 30 Mar 2017, 7:45 pm

Hi Folks, thanks for your interest in the People's Mosquito. I'd be delighted to chat with Dan anytime. You won't be surprised that I have kept our Chairman John Lilley informed of this welcome development and we are agreed that more would be gained if he was involved. This is because, in this case I am the enthusiast who just wants to see a Mossie back where it belongs - John has all the detail I am sure Dan would like to discuss. I don't think anything is off limits other than the odd bit with "commercial" sensitivity I guess. We really don't have anything which it is in our interest to hide - one of our key aims is to get the full message out there. That said, I'm very happy to take part. If that sounds ok I'm sure we can set something up.

Regards

Bill Ramsey

PS Maybe you should migrate this to the TPM thread?
BillRamsey

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Rebecca_1984 on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 12:12 pm

What has happened to the just giving page for this group, not that I was going to donate but its been removed from the internet all together, also one of the staff from UKHAT is informing people on social media the English Electric Lightning is allowed to fly in the UK on a ferry permit (no it most certainly is not), this whole thing is really not looking good is it :claypole:
Rebecca_1984

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Thumper on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 1:14 pm

Rebecca_1984 wrote:What has happened to the just giving page for this group, not that I was going to donate but its been removed from the internet all together, also one of the staff from UKHAT is informing people on social media the English Electric Lightning is allowed to fly in the UK on a ferry permit (no it most certainly is not), this whole thing is really not looking good is it :claypole:


Probably because I think it only had 10 quid in it, time to cut the losses, stop with the pipe dreams and move on? As for the statement on the Lightning, well that is laughable but it also makes me angry that a group hell bent on defending themselves as experienced, knowledgeable and up to the task can make such a basic error which even Google can supply an answer to. Just more nails in the coffin.
User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby UKHAT_OFFICIAL on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 7:20 pm

Hi All. Sorry about that post on the Facebook page. I was lead to believe that all aircraft could be given a ferry per it by the CAA if they were maintained to a certain standard and fulfilled certain requirements. The post has since been edited. If you have any further questions, please PM us on our Facebook page and we will get back to you.

Matthew
UKHAT
UKHAT_OFFICIAL

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 9:22 pm

Lead to believe by whom? Cos you wanna ditch them pronto!

And the mysterious vanishing Just Giving page?

No-one hopes you don't find success with your endeavours, but remember everything you do will be spotted and picked up on (especially on here ;-) ) so fact checking again and again before posting on social media mightn't be a bad idea.
"Forewarned is forearmed"
User avatar
CJS

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Beech18Boy on Sat 22 Apr 2017, 11:32 pm

Good luck getting the Vampire it's been Sold.
Beech18Boy

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby UKHAT_OFFICIAL on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 8:26 am

The JustGiving page expired several weeks ago.

We have since realised that it would be wrong to focus on a particular aircraft to them find out it has been sold.

Yes. We know U1229 has been sold and have known for several weeks.
UKHAT_OFFICIAL

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby cg_341 on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 9:27 am

So this was absolute nonsense then?

UKHAT_OFFICIAL wrote: As I stated in my earlier post we are currently undertaking negotiations of a commercial nature and as such it would not be appropriate to enter in the detail of those negotiations at this stage. At this time no assumptions should be made as to which aircraft we are currently looking to purchase as the negotiations are on going. We are certainly looking at a classic UK jet and I will provide more details when I am able.


Another nail in your coffin.
cg_341

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 10:18 am

To be fair, the commercial negotiations *could* have been trying to buy the Vampire, couldn't they?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
User avatar
CJS

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Vampire 1973 on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 10:39 am

I admire what they are trying to do. It looks like the two meteors and venoms are heading tout the US. that's 4 valuable aircraft lost to the UK airshow scene. It's easy for us to sit on here being critical but how many of us have actually worked in a trust or started one up?

What we will end up with is spitfires and Hurricanes, then at the other end current Mil jets and nothing in between.
Vampire 1973

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 11:28 am

Anyone got an up to date list of current and active classic jets in the UK?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
User avatar
CJS

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Beech18Boy on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 1:43 pm

Vampire WZ507 is flying next Saturday and Flew Yesterday.

G-Prov is flown regularly and should be should be accompaning 507.
Beech18Boy

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Thumper on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 5:36 pm

CJS wrote:Anyone got an up to date list of current and active classic jets in the UK?


Not much I think is the answer! Someone said to me the other day "what classic jets from the UK do you think we'll see this year?", I struggled to get past the Sea Vixen to be honest!

So, Sea Vixen, JP, Gnat, Strikemaster, can maybe include the Vampire pair and Mig-15 that were/are based at NW... is that it? Of course there are other classic jets, Miss Demeanour is greatly missed, as are Hunters in general but they cannot fly (yet) and what else is around, techically ready to go but needs a PtF? Interesting question, I'd like to know too!
User avatar
Thumper
UKAR Supporter

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby richw_82 on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 6:33 pm

Thumper wrote:
Rebecca_1984 wrote:What has happened to the just giving page for this group, not that I was going to donate but its been removed from the internet all together, also one of the staff from UKHAT is informing people on social media the English Electric Lightning is allowed to fly in the UK on a ferry permit (no it most certainly is not), this whole thing is really not looking good is it :claypole:


Probably because I think it only had 10 quid in it, time to cut the losses, stop with the pipe dreams and move on? As for the statement on the Lightning, well that is laughable but it also makes me angry that a group hell bent on defending themselves as experienced, knowledgeable and up to the task can make such a basic error which even Google can supply an answer to. Just more nails in the coffin.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that a Lightning had flown in the UK on a Ferry Permit?

According to various accounts, XR724 (G-BTSY) flew on the UK civilian register after the team got the support of BAE and got everything in order to satisfy all the OEMs and the CAA. While its highly unlikely it will ever happen again; it has proved that not only is it allowed, its not impossible. But hey, why spoil a good internet myth...?

As you say, Google is your friend. Or not.

http://www.lightning.org.uk/story.html
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplic ... y&id=16529

Regards,
Rich
User avatar
richw_82

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Timc on Sun 23 Apr 2017, 6:56 pm

"But hey, why spoil a good internet myth...?"

That was 25 years ago!
What relevance that has in the here and now is beyond me? Sorry to say! :smile:
Timc

PreviousNext

Return to Aviation Waffle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cg_341, neilatter, skidd40, vulcan558 and 25 guests