UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby john001 on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 1:21 pm

I guess you are a politician in the making as you simply answer my question with asking one yourself.

You say 'there is nothing in place which would currently allow a Lightning or other jet to make any kind of flight in the UK.'

How do you know there? Have you asked the CAA?
john001

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 1:50 pm

john001 wrote:I guess you are a politician in the making as you simply answer my question with asking one yourself.

You say 'there is nothing in place which would currently allow a Lightning or other jet to make any kind of flight in the UK.'

How do you know there? Have you asked the CAA?


It's good practice to include all relevant parts of a quote...

"I've never said (sarcastically or otherwise) that it couldn't happen (in theory; I think we're all agreed it's extremely unlikely for a Lightning) in the future."

Well no, I admit I haven't asked the CAA and I've looked and can't actually find a permit for a Lightning to make a ferry flight. Which, I think, goes someway to proving my point doesn't it?

So if you could just point me in the direction of said permit, I'll gladly :surrender: . Thanks







:tumbleweed:

And by the way, I'm too honest to be a politician. And I don't own a duck house :butt:
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby john001 on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 3:34 pm

In an earlier post you said this:

Is there a permit for any Lightning to make a ferry flight in the UK at the current time?

No.

Therefore it is not, at the current time, allowed.

What's so difficult to understand?

I was simply asking where you got your information that there was no permit. I have no idea if there is one or not or where you would find one without asking the CAA, hence me asking.
I don't see how you can say there is no permit in such categorical terms or go on to add ''there is nothing in place which would currently allow a Lightning or other jet to make any kind of flight in the UK' without asking someone in authority who would know or by working in the industry and having expert knowledge.
john001

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Brevet Cable on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 3:51 pm

:snack:
Brevet.. Meh !!
Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Brevet Cable

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby borismorris on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 4:31 pm

I would imagine we can all agree it would be something really special to have a Lightning on the display circuit again whether it's a dream or not.

It wasn't all that long ago that folk said we would never see Vulcan fly again and yet against some pretty long odds it happened.

Aside from Concorde and perhaps the Mosquito I can't think of anything more iconic that COULD better capture the publics imagination and I for one, would dip into my pockets to help make it happen.
borismorris

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby CJS on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 4:33 pm

Ok, let me try again.

1. I don't have anything from the CAA which states there is no permit. Such a thing can't possibly exist because...

2. You apply for a permit when you need one.

Let's say I have a Lightning in my back garden which is ready to fly and I want to get it from my garden to Bruntingthorpe. What I have to then do is apply to the CAA for my ferry flight permit to fly.

I have to do this because (are you paying attention?) there isn't one I can currently use.

So, I am correct in saying there is no permit which exists at the current time allowing me to fly my Lightning.

I'm honestly struggling to see what's not to get? How can I prove the existence of something that doesn't exist?
"Forewarned is forearmed"
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CJS

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby FGR2 on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 4:53 pm

This is all pointless though as BAe Systems wouldn't support it anyway. In the accident report for the T5 in South Africa, there was a letter from BAe Systems stating their concerns about operating a Lightning in civilian hands.

Back to the main point, the problem here is you cannot make money to support a jet from appearances alone.

To have any chance it needs to be iconic and have a big following (financially) amongst the general public, like the Vulcan.

CAF called it a day after some misguided decisions and u-turns, and no-one in the UK has seen operating their jets as being viable.
MidAir had an idea of a Canberra Hunter display team, hoping to get sponsorship/advertising plastered over their aircraft. Many here questioned the viability of that and they subsequently hit financial trouble.
Drilling Systems probably donated the Sea Vixen to the FNHT (an honourable thing to to) :clap: , as it was the best way to secure it's flying future.
Even VTTS have bitten off more than they can chew, trying to keep the bandwagon rolling with the Canberra B2.

The thing is there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm out there, but commercial viability and sensibility seems to take a back seat.

I don't think UKHAT has done themselves any favours flapping between a Jet Provost, and then a Swiss Air Force Vampire. Both aircraft are already on the airshow circuit and have very limited appeal amongst the wider general public, so getting people to donate in any meaningful way will be nigh on impossible.
FGR2

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 10:43 pm

borismorris wrote:I would imagine we can all agree it would be something really special to have a Lightning on the display circuit again whether it's a dream or not.

It wasn't all that long ago that folk said we would never see Vulcan fly again and yet against some pretty long odds it happened.

Aside from Concorde and perhaps the Mosquito I can't think of anything more iconic that COULD better capture the publics imagination and I for one, would dip into my pockets to help make it happen.

Harrier?
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The Jacket kid

Sorry Goose, but its time to Buzz the tower...

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ColeTheDemolisher

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby jalfrezi on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 8:44 am

ColeTheDemolisher wrote:Harrier?


I would imagine that also falls into the 'complex' aircraft category (like the Lightning and Vulcan), making it highly unlikely to ever see one flying over here in civilian hands.
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jalfrezi
UKAR Staff

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby speedbird2639 on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:00 am

Its all gone very quiet with that bunch of blow hards who said they were going to buy a Concorde that had been stood outside for 15 years and return it to flight. Presumably keeping quiet for fear of being exposes as the charlatans everyone said they were at the time.
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speedbird2639

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Vampire 1973 on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:31 am

speedbird2639 wrote:Its all gone very quiet with that bunch of blow hards who said they were going to buy a Concorde that had been stood outside for 15 years and return it to flight. Presumably keeping quiet for fear of being exposes as the charlatans everyone said they were at the time.


Which group do you mean? Because I know UK HAT never said anything about putting Concorde back in the sky?
Vampire 1973

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby speedbird2639 on Wed 26 Apr 2017, 9:39 am

Which group do you mean?


I presume its this lot http://www.saveconcordegroup.co.uk/ No activity on their website since Aug 2015 so I assume we've heard the last of that then.

UK HAT never said anything about putting Concorde back in the sky


Well not yet maybe but they way they are reportedly jumping from type to type as the mood takes them then I'm sure its only a matter of time...
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speedbird2639

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby ColeTheDemolisher on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 10:04 am

speedbird2639 wrote:
Which group do you mean?


I presume its this lot http://www.saveconcordegroup.co.uk/ No activity on their website since Aug 2015 so I assume we've heard the last of that then.

UK HAT never said anything about putting Concorde back in the sky


Well not yet maybe but they way they are reportedly jumping from type to type as the mood takes them then I'm sure its only a matter of time...

https://twitter.com/save_concorde
still going on here
Uniden UBC125XLT

The Jacket kid

Sorry Goose, but its time to Buzz the tower...

Dudley, West Midlands
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ColeTheDemolisher

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby speedbird2639 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:21 am

https://www.ukhat.org/

They've got a website - now those who choose not to use Facebook can follow their nonsense as well.
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speedbird2639

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Pringles on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:30 am

The Gloster Meteor was the first British jet fighter built and the Allies’ only aircraft to see service during World War II.

Fascinating how the Allies fought the war with one single aircraft type, introduced in 1944! Who needs Spitfires eh? :whistle:
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic
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Pringles

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Brevet Cable on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:46 am

Whoopie-doo, they made an error on their website by missing out the word 'jet'. :tumbleweed:
Feel free to trawl through other websites looking for similar errors.....you can start with the RIAT website classifying the Skyvan as a ground attack aircraft ( which I note has now been corrected )
:snack:
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Not an enthusiast or a spotter
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Brevet Cable

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby SquadronMouse on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 9:31 am

Pringles wrote:
The Gloster Meteor was the first British jet fighter built and the Allies’ only aircraft to see service during World War II.

Fascinating how the Allies fought the war with one single aircraft type, introduced in 1944! Who needs Spitfires eh? :whistle:


I see this has now been amended.
SquadronMouse

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Ouragan on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 11:46 am

A question for the contemptuous:

So what are you doing to preserve our aviation heritage that allows you to sneer at others who have genuine hopes?
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Ouragan

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby XP282 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:41 pm

Ouragan wrote:
So what are you doing to preserve our aviation heritage that allows you to sneer at others who have genuine hopes?


Well, what I'm NOT doing is misleading the public by calling myself a trust when I'm not a trust. Nor am I setting up multiple 'go fund me' type accounts asking for money to purchase a jet that I have no realistic prospect of purchasing. I'm all for enthusiasm.... But there is a right and a wrong way to go about things and I don't think UKHAT have got it right.
XP282

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Dan213 on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:46 pm

Surprised me nobody has mentioned that their logo contains the RAF roundel. Fairly sure that the Ministry of Defence have copyrighted the RAF roundel in all its forms and any organisations that wish to use it have to pay them a fee
Dan213

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby starbuck on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:22 pm

Dan213 wrote:Surprised me nobody has mentioned that their logo contains the RAF roundel. Fairly sure that the Ministry of Defence have copyrighted the RAF roundel in all its forms and any organisations that wish to use it have to pay them a fee


Really?

Yes the roundel is trademarked (apart from on clothing), but maybe they've asked and got permission? Why not let the MOD worry about it in any case.

Does seem like these guys are getting a kicking just for the sake of it.
starbuck

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Pringles on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:39 pm

Anyone else notice that Hunter's impressive tackle? :pinkwafer:
Image
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic
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Pringles

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Dan O'Hagan on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:50 pm

So, how many of the aeroplanes in their logo does UKHAT own? Asking for a friend.
Dan O'Hagan

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby starbuck on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:50 pm

Could be a huntress?
starbuck

Re: UK Heritage Aviation Trust

Postby Pringles on Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:55 pm

starbuck wrote:Could be a huntress?

:grin: My apologies, that angle could be deceiving!
If life gives you melons then you're probably dyslexic
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