Save the Skymaster

[Dan O'Hagan]

If UKHAT succeeds in buying, restoring and flying anything, I will be amazed. I've not seen one scintilla of evidence which suggests credibility.

[Thumper]

All these rtf projects remind me of 1 thing, those magazines you buy such as "build the Titanic". At first you are really excited by it and it seems plausible and affordable at 99p for the first issue. Then the second issue is £1.99 and in 3 months time the issues are £9.99 each. You invest hundreds of pounds into this project and at the 6 month (halfway marker) the company vanishes into thin air. You lose all your 'invested' money and have a load of junk to show for it.

If I am putting my hard earned into a return to flight project I want a professional organisation, people who listen and engage with their supporters and donaters and I want a team of people on hand for whatever they are needed for, technicians, ground grew, pilots etc I want all that in place for when they're needed. I want a solid and confident projection over what is needed, what will happen, when, where, how much and what happens next. I want to know how my money is being spent, breakdowns and percentages of where it's going. Honesty, that's the biggest one. I currently donate to 1 company/project and that is Fly Navy/Sea Vixen. I know that 'civil' trusts will certainly have a harder time than those such as Fly Navy but that doesn't mean they have to be any less professional or organised about it!

When I read statements such as "commercial in confidence" it just reminds me of airshow participation threads with comments such as, "I know what's coming, but I can't tell you", which usually turns out to be a load of balls anyway!

[UKHAT_OFFICIAL]

[/quote]

Nigel, what I think is ludicrous is that you run a campaign asking for £80,000 in donations but genuine questions are answered with the reply 'commercial in confidence'.... I also think it's ludicrous that you still refer to yourself as a trust when you know full well that you aren't a trust (unless you can now confirm that you have been granted trust status?)...

Are you able to give us the names and backgrounds of the people behind this project? People aren't going to donate until they know this sort of information![/quote]

I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to donate to a cause that wasn't both clear in it's aims and transparent with regard to its set up. The information you are requesting will be made public knowledge once we have finalised elements of our infrastructure. Until we have made a formal announcement I would be sorely misguided if I were to expect any donations, that would be ludicrous. A lot of work is continuing behind the scenes and I will make an announcement in due course.

Nigel Powton
UKHAT

[Russ]

Maybe it's just me and/or now looking in from the other side these days, but these endless fundraising appeals are relentless and quite boring too. It feels like the hobby is being swamped with all sorts of restoration bids. Sure, some are extremely worthy, like Just Jane and the Shack at Coventry and nobody is forcing anyone to donate.

Each to their own of course, but is it just me?

[john001]

Well I would love an overall body/trust that attracted sponsorship/fundraising efforts and expertise that could be shared around agreed projects. Some airworthy, some not, some longer term some shorter but with a close look at the importance each project to to Uk aviation heritage. It will never happen. There's also no reason why people should not pursue there own 'pet' projects. Better someone attempt it than let it rot without trying some of them may come off - good luck to them all, no one is forcing anyone to donate.

[Dan O'Hagan]

Asking for money to buy something just makes an outfit look rank amateur. What happens to the money if the target isn't raised? Who actually owns the aeroplane? Where does the money being raised actually go?

And, in UKHAT's case, where's the due diligence? Until recently we've had two Vampires on the circuit, the VPG's WZ507 and the (Air Atlantique?) camoflaged example. Neither was ever especially busy with bookings. Where's the proof that there's a market for it? Classic jets are, in the eyes of the media, toxic since Shoreham. Do people care enough about a Vampire, when VTTS had to mothball a far more impressive beast WK163 because the donations were barely a trickle.

Until UKHAT own an aeroplane, and are a bona-fide charity or trust, they will be viewed as Mickey Mouse at best, shysters and chancers at worst.

[CJS]

Interesting points raised by many on here - some of which get answers and some of which are clearly dodged around. One thing I'd be very interested to know - what, as Dan asks, exactly would happen to my money if I donated but no aircraft was purchased and the whole thing goes belly up? Is it the same for any donation to anything charitable?

Genuine question, I'm not stirring.

[Vampire 1973]

Interesting points raised by many on here - some of which get answers and some of which are clearly dodged around. One thing I'd be very interested to know - what, as Dan asks, exactly would happen to my money if I donated but no aircraft was purchased and the whole thing goes belly up? Is it the same for any donation to anything charitable?

Genuine question, I'm not stirring.

Having worked with other organisations using the likes of crowd funding etc if target funds are not raised before the end of a campaign then they can/should be refunded to the donor. This is a automatic thing under the crowd funding rules.

Say they get organised and become a registered charity and are selling merchandise etc. Then like any other charity there is always a risk that things could go wrong? They should have an accountant to oversee their books, 4 signatures on the bank account.

I would say in their defence if your not happy with them don't donate. Why sit behind a key board and slag them off

[john001]

Why sit behind a key board and slag them off

Well some people take positive action while the best some others can do is just that...

[CJS]

I wasn't slagging anyone off, there are important unanswered questions around lots of these projects - I don't know what you expect us to do, not keep asking them or something?

[Rebecca_1984]

If UKHAT succeeds in buying, restoring and flying anything, I will be amazed. I've not seen one scintilla of evidence which suggests credibility.

Did you miss the big announcement this week, UKHAT now have an "official" twitter account, all well and good but if its as wishy washy as the Facebook account it might be best not to bother.

[Pringles]

[fb-post]https://m.facebook.com/savetheskymaster/photos/a.1035198379855493.1073741829.1032605426781455/1570854582956534/?type=3[/fb-post]

[tuska2]

Good Luck! and power to your pockets & elbows!

[GertrudetheMerciless]

You can take this two ways.

The good news it the Skymaster in now owned by a group that have ambitions to save it and avoid it going the same way as its sister did at North Weald.

On the flip side, there is the view that maybe the previous owner saw no value in it and now the airframe, its upkeep and, in the worst case, its disposal is now someone else's problem. The question I ask them is what do they intend to do with it? After all, another American 4 engined piston struggles to survive over here with bags more charisma, historic and sentimental value. Unless they can find a way for it to pay for itself I find it difficult to see.

[Arthur Tee]

How about a good 'cosmetic' restoration and 'weather-proof' - then display at the Cold War Musem Cosford? Other than a chunk of Berlin War - there is little else to illustrate the Airlift...

Arthur

[Georgeconna]

Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?

[Pen Pusher]

then display at the Cold War Musem Cosford? Other than a chunk of Berlin War - there is little else to illustrate the Airlift...
Arthur

Apart from the Hastings, York, Dakota of course.

Brian

[spellow3010]

Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?

1998 RIAT? Didn't the C-54 come from South Africa for the Berlin Airlift demo? And wasn't it a female co-pilot, in kind of a father-daughter combo? It's been a long time now. RIAT 1998 I remembered for the Berlin Airlift attempt, the 'Typhoon and Reds flypast' and a Super Etendard! Oh, and the MATS Connie.

[LN Strike Eagle]

Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?

It's one of a pair that were ferried to North Weald around 2004 for the filming of a movie about the Berlin Air Lift that never happened. The second airframe was scrapped in late 2015 - only the cockpit section and a few panels/parts remain, they're on display at the RAF Burtonwood Heritage Centre.

[Arthur Tee]

then display at the Cold War Musem Cosford? Other than a chunk of Berlin War - there is little else to illustrate the Airlift...
Arthur

Apart from the Hastings, York, Dakota of course.

Brian

Thanks Brian!

Arthur

[Stagger2]

Meh!... Everybody knows it was only American aircraft that re-supplied Berlin, haven't you seen pictures of the US 'Candy Bomber' in action?
Now you've spoilt it all, by perpetuating factual information Brian!

[Andover]

Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?

1998 RIAT? Didn't the C-54 come from South Africa for the Berlin Airlift demo? And wasn't it a female co-pilot, in kind of a father-daughter combo? It's been a long time now. RIAT 1998 I remembered for the Berlin Airlift attempt, the 'Typhoon and Reds flypast' and a Super Etendard! Oh, and the MATS Connie.

This one also appeared at RIAT 98 as part of the Berlin airlift UK tour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwo ... /lightbox/

[Cole]

You can take this two ways.

The good news it the Skymaster in now owned by a group that have ambitions to save it and avoid it going the same way as its sister did at North Weald.

On the flip side, there is the view that maybe the previous owner saw no value in it and now the airframe, its upkeep and, in the worst case, its disposal is now someone else's problem. The question I ask them is what do they intend to do with it? After all, another American 4 engined piston struggles to survive over here with bags more charisma, historic and sentimental value. Unless they can find a way for it to pay for itself I find it difficult to see.

Well its worth a shot, better to die trying than not try at all.

[GertrudetheMerciless]

You can take this two ways.

The good news it the Skymaster in now owned by a group that have ambitions to save it and avoid it going the same way as its sister did at North Weald.

On the flip side, there is the view that maybe the previous owner saw no value in it and now the airframe, its upkeep and, in the worst case, its disposal is now someone else's problem. The question I ask them is what do they intend to do with it? After all, another American 4 engined piston struggles to survive over here with bags more charisma, historic and sentimental value. Unless they can find a way for it to pay for itself I find it difficult to see.

Well its worth a shot, better to die trying than not try at all.

I quite agree.

[capercaillie]

Is this the same Skymaster that appear in Fairford all those years ago, If it is how come it did not travel back home and it languished in North Weald all this time?

1998 RIAT? Didn't the C-54 come from South Africa for the Berlin Airlift demo? And wasn't it a female co-pilot, in kind of a father-daughter combo? It's been a long time now. RIAT 1998 I remembered for the Berlin Airlift attempt, the 'Typhoon and Reds flypast' and a Super Etendard! Oh, and the MATS Connie.

This one also appeared at RIAT 98 as part of the Berlin airlift UK tour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/collingwo ... /lightbox/

I don't think it was at RIAT 1998. The MATS Connie was there, along with South African Airways C-54 and Atlantic Airlines DC-6, I can only ever remember seeing that C-54 at Nellis, although it eventually arrived over here in 2004 for the 50th anniversary before they left them to rot.